Free KD on throwing fireballs against Necalli? Meh I don’t agree with that. He needs to be ready for the fireball to either use VS or Disc’s Guidance to really do that and get something off this. In close range he has exactly the same tools as you plus the DP (but minus the fireball) and basically the first who frame traps or whiff punishes the other wins. I fear a lot more random Kens or Ryus than Necallis.
I think we’re downplaying a lot Laura on certain MUs, it’s almost like she should be 4-6 against everyone lol. A lot of MUs that felt unfair to me at the beginning became much easier when I understood the holes in their gameplan and the fact that they need to take as much risk as us. The only MUs that seems clearly not in her favour to me no matter who the opponent is are Chun, Gief, the shotos and probably Cammy too. Guile is really bad only when the opponent doesn’t rely on FK only as an AA because her cross-up j. MK can stuff anyone of those and his normals are probably worse than Nash’s. Juri is potentially not in Laura’s favour but we really need to wait a few months to see that more clearly.
I agree with most that’s been said already, just want to point out some more things for a few matchups that haven’t been mentioned yet.
Laura-Chun
Like most people I see this as a 3-7 because Chun can shut down Laura completely. One thing that wasn’t mentioned is her V-Trigger which is devastating in this matchup. White damage is just stacking up because going for tech throws is not worth the risk and you can’t blow through with EX Bolt because her normals hit twice. If you don’t have the life lead whenever she activates it’s almost always game over after that.
Laura-Guile
Here I have to disagree. I think this is another 3-7 for Laura or a 3.5-6.5 at least. This matchup feels like playing a SFIV zoner without a focus attack. If he gets into a comfortable rhythm of Booms and V-Skills and is on point with his anti-airs, there’s very little Laura can do. EX Bolt is unrealiable because of multi-hitting projectiles and fast recovery and you have to respect EX Flash Kick on his wakeup.
Zangief-Laura
Very, very slightly in Gief’s favour because he has more options to bully you on wakeup than you can do to him. The simple fact that EX SPD is grab invincible changes a lot because as soon as he has meter you can’t just mix it up with throws anymore because he could go right through them. Still a fair fight but Gief has an edge thanks to EX SPD, his health pool and some good pokes.
Necalli-Laura
I agree with people saying this is 4-6 in Necalli’s favour. He’s like a slower version of Cammy with a command grab and arguably the best V-Trigger in the game. Plus he has e meterless reversal, those are always bad news for Laura because it makes you hesitate with her mixups and pressure.
Agree with everything else. Dhalsim, FANG and Balrog seem to be her best matchups so far.
Sure, but what can Guile do on the other hand? His booms do little damage and he doesn’t get anything off them save the V-Skill ones, and Laura has multi-hitting projectiles too. You don’t really need to respect his wakeup either, st. MP stuffs all regular FKs and if he doesn’t quickrise cross-up j. MK can also stuff EX FKs.
On another note, I watched again Akram vs K-Brad and it looks like st. LK is a very good option against Cammy to score CH on her cr. MK in her classic sequence cr. MP, cr. MP, cr. MK. It also feels like Laura’s cr. MK is a better tool in this MU than it looks.
I have to respectfully disagree. Necalli has to prepare for v-skill? It can be done with a single strike lol. Its basically the same input as a throw. I respect your opinion but I have to wonder if you’re used to sluggish necalli’s. The ones I play knock me out of a clap the instant they see the animation even if I only try it once or twice per match. Full disclosure, for whatever reason there seems to be a high population of good necalli’s in my location (or at least what the server thinks will yield a good connection) because I get matched up with them all of the time.
I played a juri today who was able to do the exact same with her v-skill (anywhere but full screen) which makes me feel even more strongly that the Juri matchup is going to heavily swing her way.
Well for starters he controls de pace of the match and that’s a pretty big advantage. If you get in and get a knockdown it’s temporarily in Laura’s favor but unless you really manage to make it count it’s back to neutral where he beats her hard. He doesn’t even need big damage as long as he has the life lead.
To be fair though, Guile is a rather rare sight and most Guile players are good SF players in general so that might twist my view a little but it definitely feels like an uphill battle to me.
Against Juri, I can see that you are having problems with her poking you out but that’s really not where you want to be. I’ve found that Juri is really vulnerable to 5HK pressure, and 5HP followup once you’re close. You’re safe anyway (5HK may be -4 but nothing will reach you if you do it), so why not go for it? She has no real response other than EX pinwheel and you can bait that out.
At close range, Juri is unable to do a whole lot, and on wakeup she only has EX pinwheel like in SF4. Get close with this pressure, and actually try to play footsies, just because you feel like you can’t doesn’t mean you can’t still do it. I thought I couldn’t because her range was low I thought, and I was playing like trash for a long time as a result.
Also remember that a lot of her stuff is unsafe as a general thing. All fuhajin except EX are unsafe for example, as are her flipkick hazanshuu things and all pinwheels but L.
You can do this matchup. Keep the pressure going and don’t let her breathe. If Juri gets to play patient and condition you, she wins.
I think Chun is the same way. A lot of people are freaking out about it (read: every Laura player on Twitter lol) but it’s really not that bad. What I said earlier in this forum stands true today - turtle up, her mixup pressure is terrible against just crouchblocking, counter their pressure and learn her unsafe pokes, and counterpressure with your own safe moves because at close range she really doesn’t have too much to do about it. Yes she has a reversal but it takes meter - eventually you’ll either get the read or she’ll be out of EX. Remember Chun is not actually + on block for any of her pokes except 5MP and even for that one you can grab limbs because her hurtbox goes further than the hitbox. You can halt her pressure pretty fast and because her throw range is the smallest in the game it’s a real risk to walk in on your crouchblocking self. I don’t like playing Turtle Laura, but that’s the Chun matchup for you.
Maybe it’s bias because I train with Chun and Juri players, so it looks simple to me, but the only Chun you see online are really strong SF players because it’s basically impossible to play Chun without exceptional execution and dedication to lots of random specific tech? I dunno.
I played a lot of different Necallis including very good ones, they often don’t VS at a certain range because they fear the jump-in. His VS is not harder to react to than her fireball. But even with that, that just makes the MU even, not in his favour. Really, I don’t see anything besides the DP that justifies the 4-6, let alone a 3-7, they’re two different takes on the same type of character lol.
Juri needs to charge the VS to make it projectile invincible. If she does it uncharged she just runs into the clap. But complaining about that in a game so heavy in anti-projectile tools seems pointless anyway.
P.S. I just talked with a friend of mine who played the game much more than I did and also plays quite a bit against Phenom, and he thinks too that the Laura vs Necalli MU is a 5-5, with a slight advantage for Necalli due to his higher damage output.
I’ve played against Phenom and other really good Necalli players, everything about this MU makes it an uphill battle.
Not only is it an issue that he has a reversal but all his tools work against Laura. You can’t throw projectiles in neutral, his st.lp works extremely well against all jumps (is also a threat when he wakes up), and he has unbelievable dashes in troll mode.
For me it feels somewhat similar to Chun Li. I only win if my opponent makes mistakes and I somehow manage to bait out a few reversals. I never feel like I’m in control of the match against these characters and it is frustrating. Guile is almost as bad.
Juri can release super early and cross you up before the clap even comes out and has a hit box.
Necalli isn’t doing his vskill preemptively. If he did I would destroy it so i don’t understand the comparison. I’m just saying there are necalli’s who are ready to stuff a clap the minute she goes into animation and it’s quite easy to do, no prep necessary. Two takes on the same character? Don’t agree at all. The DP is a big reason (one if many) that it’s 4-6 so I wouldn’t brush that aside as though it’s nothing. Other notables include probably the best jab and crouch jab hitbox in the game, air normals have strict AA timing and he can alter it with dive kick, very rarely can punish or beat any normals or strings.
Yeah, I dont feel Necalli is a 5-5 at all. The fact that he has a DP and a meterless one already docks points from Laura because you have to choose whether or not to give up what you worked hard to get into to start. Her fireball comes out way too slow and has too much ending lag and he can stomp or rush you on reaction. The jab is just pure horseshit because it shuts down all of her jump-ins from every angle. I dont see how this matchup is even. Youre basically praying for the player to make a complete at total foul up to get the damage.
What can Necalli do when he gets on you? Exactly the same things as you but with less range. Same frame traps, similar frame data but his pressure pushes you back and at some point he needs either to burn meter or to dash/walk forward if he wants to go on, while a random cr. MK counterpoke gets you in again for free. His command grab is 8f so he has to commit to it. DPs are a true commitment too when you’re constantly playing RPS against the opponent.
I don’t know, it’s so clear to me how much the two characters share in common lol. People compared Laura to Makoto for good reasons and a 3S Makoto player like Haitani seamlessly transitioned to Necalli… The jab is BS and the DP is good to have but that alone doesn’t grant more than 5.5-4.5 when you see how much he’s lacking in neutral.
But the point is that overall he has an easier time getting in. He also doesn’t need to rely on ex bar like you do so he can essentially get CA every round. He also builds V-meter a lot more easily and once in V-trigger he outclasses you completely. I could go on and on, but for me this is easily in his favor. Not hopeless at all, but definitely easier for him.
Challenging Guile in any sort of meaningful way is…frustrating. You have to be lucky to get in basically, feels like another ~3-7 matchup when you are playing against really good players. There is absolutely no reason to even try to challenge him in projectile wars.
So what you end up with is having to walk forward, eating chip damage and trying to find that one opportunity. When you reach 10k + points in this game, you really start to see how bad some of the matchups are when your opponents know what they are doing. I usually beat Guile players by just going full retard on them, it is the only way. Just block strings into overheads, random forward dashes into command grabs and so on. I just don’t care at all, if you try to play methodically you will lose for certain.
I don’t see how he has an easier time getting in. Just because he has a divekick and can stop your fireballs? lol. When you watch Laura vs Necalli matches you see that he can only get in on a mistake or a random knockdown. Basically he wins against your lack of patience.
He has no way other than spamming VS or st. HK to prevent you from getting in from the ground and both have their limits. On the other hand, once he’s in his task is not easy at all if you give him the big nope and kill his false strings.
Also because of his pressure relies on medium combos and heavies he’s probably one of the easiest characters in the game to V-Reversal (that’s probably why smart players like Haitani check a lot the opponent with jabs). His reliance on V-Meter means that he will never spend his own bar on VRev and that he won’t try to stop you unless he commits to a DP and risk taking a 30% punish.
I hardly can see a 3-7 against a character whose neutral and zoning are as flawed as yours. I can however see the point for a 4.5-5.5 or a 4-6 because of his higher damage conversions and his annoying jabs. Maybe we’re just not giving those numbers the same value because an unfavorable MU in SF5 is really not as unfavorable as in previous SF games, but what I’m sure of is that this MU isn’t nowhere near the level of annoyance of Chun or of a really solid Guile, if anything for the fact that he will get to you by himself.
P.S. after taking a look again at his frame data I noticed he has a lot of -4 on block (overhead, st. HK, cr. HP, cr. MK, L stomp)… I’m wondering if reversal CAs could be a thing in this MU?
^Could be, but you arent going to be building a ton of meter in this match on your own.
Anyway, I personally listed it as a 4-6 so I’m not entirely sure what we’re arguing about. I definitely can understand the opinion that it’s 3-7 even though I don’t think it’s quite that dire. This isn’t an unwinnable match, but it’s clearly not in Laura’s favor.
Before we post the MU numbers I’d like to discuss three more MUs I don’t agree with (all 5-5 according to the first post):
Nash: I feel this MU is kinda free for Laura in general. No 3f jab, no wakeup options other than VT, you can EX bolt freely through his fireball thanks to the ass startup/recovery, his air attacks are all pretty easy to AA… he needs to try to keep you out for the entire match and if you manage to enter once he’s done. otter also thinks this is a 6-4 for Laura.
Dictator: again, no 3 framer and no reversal, very bad AA unless he commits to the forward jump TC, his extremely slow normals make him particularly vulnerable to V-Reversal and therefore to a deadly knockdown. He’s not allowed to use the stomp even once because of H Bolt, and because he’ll be forced to V-Rev a lot against you he probably won’t even gain access to his VT.
Claw: his issues are the same as Dictator (maybe even worse when it comes to AA), except that he’s much faster and has access to 3 framers, but he also has lower stun and will take more damage when the mask is off. Like Nash he’ll spend the match mostly trying to avoid you and to whiff punish everything he can because he can’t really score burst damage and can’t afford to stay close to you. Wall dives are of course suicide. Claw mainers seem to agree this is not an easy MU for them.