Laura Match-Ups Thread: Quench your thirst here

So it’s hella early and I’ll probably get blasted for saying this but I have a feeling laura will end up somewhere near the bottom of the tier list which is a shame because she’s so unique.

I feel that she’ll need ONE (not all!) of the following to cover some of her unfavorable matchups and be viable.

1)Slightly faster startup on one version of thunder clap to give breathing room on fireball spam when meterless.
2)Better range and throw invincibility on one version of sunset wheel.
3)A better long range poke
4)A more hit-confirmable bnb combo.

I hope I’m wrong but right now it seems an uphill battle against the majority of the cast.

My only grudge is her overhead not going over lows. Other than that I think she’s a good character

Bottom tier =/= non-viable. There are obvious ways to make this character better (and possibly too good), but patience and good conditioning/decision making is all you need with this character. She’s definitely viable in her current state.

I think my biggest gripe is that her fireball (uncharged) is so slow and the active frames don’t match the animation. It’s terrific for mix ups (ex) but normals, jump ins, specials, whatever can mash right through it even from pretty far out if you try to use it defensively.

I will say that Laura becomes one million times better when you have at least one s bar and v trigger, I know that can be said for the whole cast but in her case especially. I just think she needs a tiny tweak so she isn’t a complete punching bag at the start of a set. We’ll see how she ends up and in the mean time it’s back to training for me!

Vs Fang:

You can mp.bolt any of his non-ex air poisons on reaction so try to stay at least within mp.bolt range. You have a ton of leeway in reaction against all but his lp air poison, lp can still be beat clean on reaction but if you’re reactions are a little slow, it can trade some times, having said that, his air poison is still -7 on hit while mp elbow is +2 and puts you right up in Fang’s face where you generally want to be, so even a trade is not necessarily a bad thing. His ex air poison drops one of the poison balls in front of him so it can be punished by an ex.bolt on reaction, but not by any other version of bolt as far as I can tell.

His “Take your poison” v skill recovers REALLY fast so while it is punishable with mp.bolt too, it basically has to be a read, very difficult to punish on reaction. Since mp.bolt itself IS punishable on block, I’m not sure its worth the risk unless your opponent is being really obvious with his v skill timings. Since the poison does not interrupt moves, however, if your close enough you might consider attempting ex sunset wheel on reaction and if that starts luring him into jumping after his V-skill when you have meter, depending on the distance you may be able to catch him with hp.bolt instead.

All of the non-ex poison mines are punishable on block. The light version ends with a short built in back dash, that moves it outside the range of cr.mk, cr.hp, or st.hp, HOWEVER, it is -9 block and at all the distances I’ve tested it at cr.hk WAS able to punish it on block. The medium version is less minus on block at -8, but lack the jump back and has negligible push back, allowing st.hp or cr.hp to reach it at all ranges that it could reach you at (as far as I can tell). The heavy version is the worst version for him to do in your face since it also have no built in back dash or significant push back and is -10, making it very open to whatever punish you’d like (I prefer cr.hp for the 10 extra damage as st.hp doesn’t seem to get a crush counter out of it).

As far as him using them as actual mines as a wall for his air poison, a mine into air poison combo can be beaten by EX.bolt as long as he didn’t use the ex version (since that is the only version that leaves a 2 hit mine, his light version is also two hits but does not leave a mine behind)

His double fist slide forward attack hits twice, so no ex bolt here (though the start up is fast so you’re probably not going to do anything on reaction to this anyway). They can also be spaced to be safe. However, if he does them too close, all of the non-ex ones very minus (-9, -10, or -11 depending on the strength) so pretty much every normal but st.hk is a potential punish option. From my tests it seems like EX sunset wheel reached even on safely spaced ones so while not a true punish, its something to consider, and because he is so minus, using dash or lp.elbow if you think he might be hitting a button to get in isn’t a bad option. lp.bolt is 13 start up, and his light punch version is -11, hp is -10, and he doesn’t have a 3 frame normal, so its a pretty good frame trap BUT if you wiff even against his -11 version, you’re effectively at -20, so make sure your lp.elbow can actually connect on block unless you’re certain he’s going to hit a button. One final note, it does take him some frames to retract from his attack, so there do seem to be some distances at which a st.hp or cr.hp will miss, but, say, a cr.mp WILL connect on block, do to being fast enough to catch him before he retracts out of range.

His slide(roll) move, as previously stated, is NOT throw invincible, so you can grab him out of the start of it on a read. As far as I can tell laura’s lk.SSW can grab all of his non-ex versions after the animation too (mk and hk versions seem to wiff). His ex version puts him outside the range of almost everything most of the time (occasionally I can just barely reach before he recovers with a cr.mk) once completed, but ex.SSW is an option, and on reaction, assuming he didn’t catch you in the middle of something, I find that if you immediately start holding back you give yourself more time to grab him before he passes through you. Personally I go for a normal grab in those situations since if I’m late and he crosses me up, it messes up the SSW input, and from what I can tell through tests, it looks like he can’t tech normal grabs during his slide.

I really need tips against Dhalsim and Birdie.

After vsing many of my friends who specialize in a character each I’m convinced that Laura is just one of the worst characters in this game due to her catastrophic neutral game.

Even though I am winning I have to work so unbelievably hard to win whilst they get rounds by just pressing buttons from a long distance and god it is so frustrating.

However Laura is the only character that puts a smile on my face so I won’t abandon her because of her bad normals. Instead I shall find answers and become the best I can be with her.

How do you guys use Laura in neutral?

Laura has to get in right? Because once she is in you are gonna win most likely… as long as you have your frame traps and meaty SPD down you shall do fine when you get in.

However neutral is the biggest problem for me because in SF4 I always win using footsies and it seems so hard with Laura because her buttons are so bad…

I know this is a MU thread but how do you guys deal with this? So far Cammy, Karin, Nash, Chun Li and Rashid has given me the biggest trouble just because of their pokes and I need help using Laura in footsies… what do?

Yeah bro tell me about it… giefs rekt me just with pokes and parry punch… don’t need to do anything else.

https://youtu.be/_xw6_X6WkLI

Some interesting tech to see in this video.

VRyu is truly a master and my hat goes off to him.

Didn’t know you can dash under moonsaults… thank god because it seems that VRyu was able to whiff punish everytime.

Also omg that combo after stun… he fully charged thunder clap and did f.hp then f.hp target combo… thats amazing!

I mained footsies heavy characters in SF4 so when I started with Laura I was really struggling at first. Then I started watching replays of the top lauras on ranked and one of the things that stood out to me was that they simply did not play neutral, they just got in as fast and hard as they could, even at the expense of their life in the short term, because once they got in and got their mixups started, things seemed to start favoring Laura. I tried to take that to heart, I stopped trying to win at neutral and instead put all my focus on spending as little time in neutral as possible, and saw a dramatic increase in my win rate.

So… my best advice right now is:

  1. Take chances to get in, even if a few of them don’t pay off and get you punished, once your in, the real match starts.
  2. Check out high rank laura match replays and watch what they do in neutral. When they’re at neutral stop the replay and ask yourself “what would I do here?” then hit play and see what they do. If it worked, even if what they did seems a bit too unsafe or random, seriously consider using it in your own matches, and see if maybe something you didn’t think was viable, was actually more viable at neutral then you thought.

Again, I don’t have commentary on these matches to know what they were truly thinking, but my impressions seem to be that the players are valuing positioning over health, performing risky reads with the goal of just “getting in” since they realize they can’t compete fairly at neutral with Laura but have the advantage over most of the cast at point blank range.

There’s been a number of general tips on both characters given in this thread, including my own initial analysis on the match up with Birdie, do you have any specific questions or situations where you’re not sure what to do? I’m definitely not a top player, but I am a training room gym rat, so if there’s situations you’re struggling with that I can test in training, time allowing, I may be willing to do so and let you know what I find. If you’re not sure where you’re struggling, consider reviewing some replays of your matches and try to pin point the moments when things went “horribly wrong”. Assuming they’re not just execution errors, that will give you a starting point to say “In this situation, whats are my best options?” and get some more specific advice.

@DanTheTimid excellent advice regarding playing the neutral with Laura. I too have developed that mentality and It works for me. I just had to realize that isn’t where my character strengths are. Now of course you can’t just forget the neutral but It shouldn’t be your main priority playing Laura. Playing against characters like Chun and Dhalsim or even Fang, you just have to take risk. Also, I’ve been learning a lot from watching Jibbo streams. I just love how he plays and explain his mentality while playing. Plus, he watch replays of his matches and analyze them. It can help you make better decisions in your matches.

Thanks trunksz. And I agree with your sentiment as well that you shouldn’t completely forget about neutral, I should clarrify that the play I see isn’t 0% neutral, just minimal neutral. I feel like Laura’s neutral game is kind of like wake up DPs in this game. The risk reward is probably largely in your opponents favor, and yet you still need to do it every now and again, represent that its something your willing to do, in order to make your opponent respect it, or at least make them consider that you might when deciding what they will do. Cr.mk may not have very good start up, range, priority, or potential damage on confirm, but I still see top players use it every now and again as a low check just to make opponents respect that you could do it at neutral. St.hk and cr.hp aren’t amazing pokes, but they are just good enough to make your opponent think twice about hitting random buttons at neutral, and when they’re not hitting buttons, thats when you can dash in and get to work. And if they still don’t respect you, well thats when her neutral game actually can become viable, as you crush counter st.hk into big damage, or use the priority system to grab a random non-heavy extended limb with cr.hp and combo it into your buffered mp.bolt, etc. You don’t play Laura for her neutral game, but you do want to still represent that she has one, even if its not the greatest. The more your opponent has to think about and consider, the better.

I guess so… I think Laura has to be played like Abel… just extreme patience and once you are in… game over for your opponent.

I just hate vsing people who mindlessly press buttons and beat me everytime at long distance. Like its not even footsies they just press buttons and its so damn annoying…

God why couldn’t they give Laura better buttons? 5F cr.hp would’ve been amazing haha.

Here’s my answer to Chun’s IALL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLOCinD5vb4

V skill dash forward is the highest reward since you can get a full punish on the other side, however since it’s not an attack it’s not possible to trade with air legs and you either get underneath or get punished.

cr. mp is probably best balance of risk/reward since you can v skill under and get meaty s mp and trades are in your favor with frame advantage. Another thing to be aware of is that in certain situations it can cause a cross under where both IALL and cr mp will miss each other and you will trade sides. It can be possible to get a jab punish in this case but the timing is pretty strict.

cr mk is probably the safest option since you low profile you can do it later, you can even cancel into meaty overhead but the timing is tricky and you might whiff altogether.

cr lp isn’t that good honestly, it frequently trades or gets stuffed and is hard to time

HP bolt charge isn’t that great since if it trades you get knocked to the ground and it’s possible that Chun can tech and be in your face if you aren’t expecting the trade. Also it can be stuffed outright pretty easily or you may miss your input, and the frame advantage situation isn’t even that beneficial compared to cr mp/mk vskill forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zp9RlN6c1Q

How to deal with Rashid’s V-Trigger on activation. You have to do it really quickly or you’ll trade or get hit by the tornado. I believe this also works on Gief’s V-Trigger but I didn’t make a video.

I totally agree with @DanTheTimid . dont bother with neutrals and get in. Laura has a great burst dmg once she gets in, sacrifice a little hp for the cause.

st.mk xx vdash is a great tool to get in at footsie range. dont waste time trading neutrals.

she is much like abel with a little worse command grab. 6 frames start up for sunset wheel and 5 frames for tornado if I remember correctly. I’d really appreciate that 1 frame buff. also I think sunsetwheel has less range, correct me if I’m wrong.

Don’t underestimate 5MP in neutral. Buffer in bolt charge as well to give those safe poking Chuns a nasty surprise when they get stuffed

Is Laura positive on her v-skill dash forward? I always have people jab me when I dash forward I’m just wondering if I am doing it wrong and pressing buttons at a bad time…

Never positive on cancel v-skill dash forward

st.mk xx avante should be -5 if you cancel it on the first frame if I did my math right. (It’s 4 am though, so shrug). None of her normals provide enough block stun to let the 21 frame avante be plus on block.

I definitely think she is bottom tier. What impressed me with that VRyu video was how good he is at confirming lp bolt cancels off of jabs and shorts. I think that might be the secret to elevating Laura’s game, at least for me. Being +2 in their face is what you want. Being -2 on block however is pretty bad I think. Once a player learns that they should always press a button after a blocked bolt, it makes the game so bad if you end up doing it.

Does anyone have a good tech to stop people from quick rising her bolt follow ups and command grabs? The closest I’ve seen so far is the st.hk “Trap” which if they block… accomplishes nothing since you are at best -2 and not close to them.