Seth has a projectile though. also, not to mention: a DP
an EX lariat would only be viable if lariat was changed to a QCF/QCB or a RDP motion to begin with, then the multiple buttons being the version.
I’m actually all for it. At least it would require a directional input instead of scrubs just mashing 3P.
I didn’t twist anything, there are just as many, if not more people, bitching about certain aspects of the shoryuken which they want nerfed. One of the most common things asked to be changed in SSF4 is to get rid of trade shoryu into ultra.
SSF4: Rainbow edition. Haddokens should probably also shoot out of it as well.
I don’t get it… Who jumps at Gief? Most people want to be away from him. Wait a second! Jumping away!
So you want to empty jump in and spin the joystick. If they stay on the ground, you SPD ultra. If they jump away, you anti air Ultra. ARE YOU INSANE?!
Uh cvs2 gief had this and he was far far far away from even the middle tier. Dont let gief empty jump its pretty simple. You know who else has this? Yamazaki in like EVERY game hes been in. Learn to anti air
Kick lariat is useful for moving through low tiger shots, moving through far Akuma fireballs (because if you do punch lariat, he can do ex demon flip into combo on reaction and punish your lariat), baiting some things (because the opponent might try to time his counter later to beat punch lariat), moving through Ryu’s fireballs, moving through some low normal attacks, etc. The reason it’s useful is that it recovers faster and is invincible low. Make it hit longer and it’ll be less useful.
I’m against the antiair super (or ultra, whatever). I don’t think Gief needs it, I agree that 720/antiair super guessing games would be retarded, and I don’t think Gief needs to get even stronger on defense. It could be fine if it was useless like it has been most of the times it’s showed up, but I hope (and expect) that whatever new ultra he gets won’t be useless.
I also don’t want him to get his stomps super from EX (youtube it if you don’t know it, it’s just a regular attacking super that you can combo into). I don’t really want Zangief to be more about combos, he’s already more combo-heavy than he’s ever been in a non-Marvel game.
I’d much prefer something totally new: a running bear grab ultra. Get rid of the regular running bear grab entirely, but keep the close 360k suplex (so it would always just end up as a whiff throw instead of a run even from far away). Make his new ultra a qcf qcf ultra grab that would activate instantly and throw instantly upon getting into a certain range, but from outside of that range would be a run until Gief got into that range, and also it would be completely vulnerable the entire time (like, lose to all meaties even). It could do nice damage up close, although not nearly as much damage as his 720 ultra, and then do less damage the farther away Gief had to run. I think it would be pretty interesting, be all about offense and footsies instead of defense, and be useful without being too good.
you realize letting gief empty jump now is still a 50/50 now right? with or without ultra? you sit there you eat a 360/720. you jump away you hit a lariat.
Well, I don’t think anyone should be too worried about a Gief player who throws out predictive lariat like that, it’s not exactly the smartest idea. And in any case that mixup loses to backdashing and simple antiairs. What I really think would be stupid would be the meaty situation: guess 720 or do cr. jab into verify jump into anti-air super. Obviously this is totally dependent on how effective the antiair super is (ie is it fast? does it grab with much horizontal range? is it invincible? etc), but if it’s not effective, then great, it’s just a waste of an ultra slot.
Yeah, Gief already has real beefy meaty mixups, but he doesn’t have a mixup where your guess is as dangerous as that one would be. It would be too stupid imo.
But that’s not even my biggest problem with it. My biggest problem with it is that it would probably be most useful defensively, and I frankly think Gief needs to get a little worse on defense, not better.
I’d really like to see Green hand go through fireballs easier. It currently seems intensely fiddly to actually use it for it’s intended purpose. Being able to go through fireballs a little easier would be immensely helpful for Sagat and Ryu in particular.
I feel a bigger window of projectile invicibility would be wonderful since the move would become a lot more useful. It’s already unsafe on hit so there is still emphasis on making it whiff. It would perhaps be nice to shorten the range the jab version goes to make it more useful at closer ranges where you might not want to risk a jump-in every single time.
He needs a projectile, somewhere along the lines of a Mini-Gief that lariats across the screen.
Or, we have Zengief. The evil twin of Zangief. He can teleport and his 360 can stretch across the screen and grab you into SPD
But seriously. I think the lariat should be avoidable by crouching. It should also not be able to stuff Rose’s ultra. That makes no sense! (The irony of me complaining about logic in a SF game.)
lariat definatly should only hit high and not crouched characters who get smacked by trying to sweep him.
wider feet area for punishment
no lower body invincibility for p. lariat.
AA late cr. PPP lariat works the same.
set lariat to PP and KK, introduce ex PPP or ex KKK-lariat with some better properties? (faster recovery, cannot be thrown*, but lower dmg)
*if added, remove unthrowable lariat kara-cancel
this also increases post-lp-gh-on-hit options i.e. spd startup is 2 frames so that leaves gief at -3 -> ryu has options of srk or jump back/neutral, backdash to escape or beat gh, but if gief decides to do something else then refer to vortex. (not sure if ultra can beat a srk on its startup?)
MP and HP has higher stun and can be combo’d off bnb, but are both very very unsafe on hit and block.
ex close 360k has slight increased range (between mp-hp spd range, but dmg of hp spd) thus it does not have the range of ex spd, but has more dmg with same post-wakeup options
lower startup on far 360K(240 dmg) and faster speed
ex far 360k(220 dmg) is the same (absorbs armor) as buffed far 360k, thus allowing psychic activation to absorb fireballs or laggy normals ending in a grab.
far 360k/far ex 360k does not allow post-wakeup options. i.e. gief bounces too far back and gh’ing in will not allow you enough time to cross up just like regular spd
Super/Ultra
reduce dmg on ultra/super, increase range on super to match with ultra
Misc (might be good, might not be needed)
air throw (he has a regular air throw in most every other game)
increase range of ex gh a tiny bit so it will catch blanka balls (makes it so kara-ing isn’t required) or change blanka balls so only lp horizontal ball is safe, but mp and hp can be caught with ex gh without kara’ing.
health change amongst all who have health above 1000. i.e. sagat, honda, rufus, gief to standardized hp of 1100.
NO changes on move speed, jump angle/speed/properties, FA, spd, and normals beside far st. mk
far st. mk has increased active frames but retains long recovery on block or regular hit. this lets it fish for counter hits, but if it does counter hit, it should give enough +frames to allow combo’ing into ex gh or something like that.
Zangiefs SPD motions and Ultra should only work if you spin the joystick/D-pad in the direction facing your opponent. Too many times Gief should wiff his throw and he still gets an ultra or SPD off on characters landing on the other side of him. So not only do people have to deal with the insane spacing of the SPD it’s on either side of him. That’s not very fair.
Sorry 4th. If you’re empty jumping crossup over gief you’re going to eat some sort of knockdown. Leave the input for SPD alone.
I’m not saying I personally do that, but the idea that an ultra grab or an input grab that powerful connects in a direction it was NOT intended on is bad for the game and players who main Gief.
The same aesthetic of my point can be applied if Zangief is the one crossing up. Why should someone be rewarded for making a mistake? It’s disrespectful to talented Zangief players.
A lot of good Zangief players get written off because of the absorbent amount of non execution savvy players getting rewarded for obvious b.s.
I would like to see gief be less boring as feck :
Hugo 4 life.
Wow. Are we still talking about weather or not Gief is overpowered or not? Well, I guess there’s no harm since mods haven’t stopped us yet, so Onward!
Yeah, I never noticed that, but now that you mention it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Gief whiff a piledriver by going the wrong way and not because the player jumped, which happens in other games. If I was in an All or nothing situation I’d like to have the option there. that if Gief times a 360 wrong or if I manage to predict it and manage to get on the other side somehow, I should be able to get that rare combo on Gief. It’s a huge messup on his part, but how it is now, you don’t really have to worry if Gief is facing the wrong way.
Anyone who earnestly uses 'Gief in ‘IV’ (ie. isn’t sloshed and doing it only for shits and giggles of a Saturday night) has patently some serious mental issues afoot.
I’d be very careful about using the ‘i-word’ around 'Gief users… :shake:
As the grappling mod, I’ll finally put my 2 cents in on this thread. First I’ll reply to you:
What other games does he whiff SPD if he inputs the 360 the wrong way? What other games with grapplers that have 360s do they whiff or the command fails if they don’t do it in one preset direction? What is “facing the wrong way” for a 360?
If you “predict an SPD” and jump over him you can attack him pretty freely unless you have a floaty as hell jump, in which case you don’t want to be near him at all.
Re: lariat
I had something longer here but it was tl;dr. Short and sweet: I agree with UltraDavid, you motherfuckers have in general no real Gief experience if you’re really that worried about lariat. There are enough ways to get around it with each character. Gief has to play most matches differently, so why shouldn’t your character? A great deal of posters in this thread aren’t even Gief players, and therefore have no room to talk. Get back at me when Gief is so easy to use and so good that there’s 90% Gief players in the top levels of CE mode.
Re: Fixing lariat
1: Maintain horizontal range. He’s a big dude, and as such deserves that range with his arms. Compare ST lariat animation to Alpha lariat animation and notice the one difference that was lost once we left the SF2 sprites behind.
2: Fix vertical range. blahblahblah it shouldn’t hit so low so long.
3: Leave his fucking head and feet alone with the exception of FB avoidance. Because fuck Sagat. You have enough means of getting some dmg back on block/whiff, even if it isn’t OMG full combox cuz he whiffed. Not every miss in this game should lead to combo xx ultra.
Other than that Lariat is fine. There’s no need to make Gief weak to crossups either.
Other:
EX RBG: Holy fuck why did they even give this armor. if you’re gonna do that make it so that if you try to use it as AA it grabs once the op lands, not right when they meet up with him horizontally. It looked like a good idea in theory but fell apart on day 1 of play.
Pokes: s.MP is alright imo, but if s.MK goes back to ST level goodness, then I’ll take a slight nerf for s.MP. The old short and long sweeps and c.MKs are a nice extra if they make it(prolly won’t).
Enjoy more negrep, troll.
Honestly, the lariat’s kinda weak IMO. It could use a little super armor, definitely needs to be safe on block, and it also needs to fill up the stun meter by half.