ty I did not know this, after original 303 Jp mount I abandoned crown products for good.
I only ordered this because I tried out out my friends 309 and wanted to mess with it.
> < I want the 309 actuator !
I just ordered 1 myself from Paradise Arcade hopefully i donāt get the same treatment. Hopefully they get you sorted out and anyone else that may have encountered this problem/
I ordered both of my 309 Helpmes from Makestick directly at different times and Iāve gotten the right thing both times but ymmv.
I just got a one from Paradise Arcade so you should be good. It was quite dusty but otherwise perfect.
Why is the etokki Omni Korean stick never in stock on their site? Do they offer it every once in a while?
Good to know I might not be getting a 309MJ haha. Thanks for the heads up.
I would check the Twitter feed for updates. Laugh usually lets people know when they are available.
Man when is the Infiltration stick getting released? Feels like its never coming out lol.
Focus Attack mentioned that their supplier said that it was delayed until some time in July.
Are Panasonic switches pref
Did you get any information from FocusAttack on this? Curious if this is just blue for some reason, or if itās a a 303MJ base/actuator, which would kind of worry me since I wanted a 309MJ. (mine is in transit)
I got this from the focus attack thread:
Ghost Cobra,
I spoke to my supplier and learn that a clerical mistake at Samdusksa caused a big error. Somehow, the Samducksa salesperson placed an order for āCWL-303MJ-JMS-ST25ā. This a configuration that wasnāt normal, but the factory went ahead with it. That means the body indeed does have the 303 frame and actuator. This is definitely not what we ordered; neither my supplier knew nor I because they are shipped in their own individual boxes. He said that 50 units were affected - none of the HELPME models were affected. All of the MJās we had sold out within the last two weeks or receiving them, so this CWL-303 configuration is in the wild.
Samducksa is now acutely aware of the mistake, and has begin an immediate reshipment. My hope is to receive a new shipment in a week or so.
That said, there is an additional issue with the microswitch. Both Samducksa/Crown and Seimitsu used Panasonic microswitches for their Japanese configurations. Unfortunately, there are no more units available to source from Panasonic, as the company has left the microswitch business. I mentioned before that the new LS-32 will use an Omron microswitch as a result of this unexpected announcement from Panasonic. This affects Samducksa because they donāt yet have an alternative Japanese microswitch. This means they are sending a Korean microswitch in its place, and all future models will use Korean switches until further notice. If any other vendors are selling them, they will eventually run into this issue as well.
For now, I can ship a new unit to you with a return label to get the odd unit back or email a pre-paid return label and issue a refund once received. For domestic customers that have purchased a 309-MJ unit up to two weeks ago and see this message, please email orders@focusattack.com, and weāll get units swapped. International customers weāll sort out on a case-by-case basis.
āThe company left the microswitch businessā : Samducksa and Seimitsu cut ties with Panasonic, Panasonic still produces microswitches, the new āreplacementsā have redesigned actuators along with an elastomer membrane to make it splash/dust proof, the Operating force range is not as interesting as before (only a couple of values, custom orders are probably possible though, as usual).
The new models from Panasonics are called ABV from the Turquoise line (I posted about this a few times, with links) and costs too much compared to the discontinued AM5, almost as much as the D2RV from Omron.
That is possibly the real reason certain gaming companies have cut ties with Panasonic, that is, Sanwa doesnāt back away from Omronās expensive reed switches simply because they have an agreement since the PCB switch assemblies have entered their line for the JLF a few decades ago (there are interviews about this, Sanwa&omron claim they invented the concept for joysticks) and Omron did some engineering for them, supposedly, even before they had the PCB versions.
@Agieze, now Iām really interested in trying out these new ABV switches as well as the new omron seimitsu switches.
What are the best places to buy these switches and what is the name of the LS-300ās switches.
Does anybody have any experience with this turquoise line? Do you have any recommendations?
I guess Iāve played with the golden fanta stuff long enough to do my review. And I suck at reviews so bear with me.
The clear grommet doesnāt have enough resistance to keep from deflecting towards opposite side and activating opposite direction switch if youāre not prepared for itās deflection.too soft imo.
The sky blue grommet felt like it had slightly less tension/resistance than stock fanta grommet to me.
I was looking for something that felt more like 309helpme tension/resistance.
The dark blue grommet felt exactly like the stock fanta grommet to me. With that said I didnāt try the red grommet ,as said earlier I was looking for less tension/resistance.
You may have noticed Iāve omitted the green one thus far. I like it. It had the feel I was looking for.
All grommets were tested with the 16mm actuator and 10mm shaft.
After settling on the green grommet my 309helpme that I purchased just to take switches off came in. Those switches made this setup feel so much better.So at the moment my fanta is using the green grommet,16mm actuator,10mm shaft ,Panasonic switches and the switch support.
I do want to talk about the switch support before I hit the post button. I feel this thing is a huge upgrade on its own. I donāt know if my fanta is the average fanta but the holes for the screws of switches wasnāt smooth or level at all and the switches kind of sat cockeyed and only got worse as the screw tightened.It was like that the day I received it brand new.i can only imagine how much play they had if the stick was banged hard enough. I donāt feel I overtightened the screws but tightening them made the switch more angled. Where they seemed flat they would wobble from lack of pressure. Enter the support plate. As screws tighten and the switch begins to angle around it has nowhere to go but flush up against the plate. No more play/wobble from the switch = more immediate response from switch. I see why most of the modded Korean sticks have support of some kind for the switches.
@ProgressiveBalance
Where to buy? As always, if arcade parts retailers do not stock them, you have to bet on some site that deals with these types of switches as replacement parts for vacuum cleaners, microwave ovens etc, or simply buy from Mouser, Digikey etc (donāt be surprised witht the extra fees that pile up, nor with the MOQ)
Omron? The V series is known in gaming, but VX and D3V are similar (if not exactly the same) in terms of actuation. Vx and D3V, in hinge levertype, do not go higher than 125,4 gf operating force, itās good for ls-32 ls-40 use but i you want stiffer (such as 180gf models from Panasonic, discontinued line AM5) , thereās only the V series which is available in hinge lever type at 60.16gf (semi-light) , 125.4gf (medium like in ls-32) , 249.83 ~ 250gf (stiff, compares with some of the stiffest from Gersung).
I say it is not worth the trouble -at all- . Actuation specs show relatively high operating point (actuates high in theory), but some hysteresis problem in the mechanism lets the switch go as far as 4mm for max pretravel (Panasonic AM5 is max 3.2). I already posted in detail about Omron vs Gersung, that Gersung has ,apart from the operating forces which are not clearly specified, exactly the same actuation values on paper as a V series Omron. Gersung is a less expensive, reliable clone, so donāt bother paying 2-4 dollars for a switch when you can get a Gersung **********A3 if youāre on a budget, though the 125gf V-152-1A5 hinge lever by Omron, whose ācarbon copyā is the Gersung GSM-V162**A2 on paper in terms of specs but in reality the omron outshines the gersung because weāre dealing with weaker switches here and Gersungās QC leaves to be desired sometimes ā¦Some may want to put the price for extra reliability .
A switch such as V-15G2-1A5 has better actuation &reset specs than all other V series hinge lever switches in the same catalog.This āGā version (G= gap of 0.5mm instead of 1mm, an option normally seen in D3V switches only, it quickly disappeared from the V series catalog) has only 3.3 max pretravel (compared to the 4mm of the non āGā actual version) , 15.2 operating point , 0.8mm differential (distance above operating point, shows where it resets, small values are preferred). VERY similar to the famed AM5 Panasonic people are farming today in fear of not seeing them anymore, but smaller gap in G means āsensitive to vibrationā so take that into coonsideration.
I saw some V-15G2-1A5-K on Mouser ( http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/V-15G2-1A5-K/?qs=1tDaWCEHQQ7JgCpKcD5gKw%3D%3D ) . Price is ā¦meh.
I already posted extensively on the ABV by Panasonic, linking to the official catalog , I selected for a fellow from the forum two models that would fit as good replacements (but expensive replacements) for the AM5 switches seen in Seimitsu ls-32, ls-40ā¦since they have very good actuating sepcs (better than actual omron & gersung of similar type) . Alas for you, it doesnāt go above 120gf for hinge lever, but if it suits you why not (āA2ā Gersung has exactly same operating force) . They specify that you can contact them for other possibilities (do you have the cash to produce thousands of units? )
ABV : spdt version 15A, 120gf ABV1212503
spst-no : ABV1232503
All suppliers state ālimited supplyā, ācontact us for restockā blablabla. It means you need to fork out cash and be ready for a big MOQ. Or ask someone from an arcades parts store to invest in those switches (personally at 5-8 dollars a pop, I find that too expensive for a snap action switch, plus we donāt need the splash protection ) .
@Agieze thanks for the links. From what I understand, I might just be better off buying some seimitsu new old stock switches from an arcade parts shop. I had thought that the new Panasonic switches would be more accessible.
This is getting too confusing for me. What switches are going to be on crowns next?
Since I do own both the chopped collar version (309mj) and the regular collar version (309 Help Me) I didnāt notice any difference in shaft travel. They seem to be at the same angle when they do touch the gate.
Besides different variety of grommets Iād also would like to see the same variants of actuator sizes and shaft thickness like the Golden Fanta Mod. From my own personal experience with using my Crown 309 setups and the Golden Fanta Mod setup I find diagonals on the Golden Fanta mod were much better and consistent than the stock offerings on the Crown. In regards to direction inputs I felt that the 16mm actuator from the Golden Fanta Mod made the spacing more even than the 309 (in which I felt that I was hitting diagonals much early and at times Iāll input a forward jump while doing qcf commands and dashing forward).
Although, I do admit I was using some micro-switches harvested from a Seimitsu LS-300 lever so it may or may not affected the outcome of the Golden Fanta Setup that iām currently using.
http://i.imgur.com/NSF9Pvf.jpg
So far, Iām really enjoying the setup that I currently using (Omron Switches/50a light blue grommet/stock 9mm fanta shaft/16mm actuator).
Though, i should be getting some Gersung A3 switches this week and Iāll be testing those out as well. Hopefully, I can finalize my setup before Evo.
As an addendum to my initial review that I posted, Iāve since had more time to try a number of combinations of the Golden Fanta components, & wanted to share that experience here. Alright gentlemenā¦ this here is a bit of a longer piece, so grab a chair & get comfortable:
As within my last posted review, Iāll again state that I used a Taeyoung lever, not a Myoungshin, and Panasonic/Matsushita AM51630C69N microswitches (180gf) unless otherwise stated. As well I used the stock Taeyoung shaft, though I couldnāt tell you if it measures the 8mm or 9mm unfortunately.
Iāve been still running with the combination of 55a-light blue grommet paired with the 16mm bronze actuator since the weekend, and I havenāt come to like the combination any more or any less. Itās good, very good, but as I stated before that I just donāt favor it to my 50a nitrile rubber + Gersung A2s + 16.5mm (stock Myoungshin) plastic actuator. That isnāt to denigrate the aforementioned pairing, itās just that the latter combination is near perfect in my opinion.
I now decided to now test the 60a-dark blue grommet. It was superior to the 55a-light blue grommetāthough marginallyāin nearly every way. The heavy deflection was curbed and the speed of the neutral action was increased. Though I will say, a gripe I had with the 60a silicone + AM5s + 16mm bronze actuator was that it still felt as if the neutral return wasnāt indicative of the grommetās hardness rating when released from just beyond the point of switch activation. That is to sayā¦ that the return-to-neutral action is more indicative of the 60a rating when the shaft is nearer the collar wall of the lever & then released (almost exponentially so), however the action is significantly slower when the shaft is nearer the center of the collar) & then released (e.g. immediately following the point of switch activation [which is nowhere near the collar wall with AM5s switches]. I think this just the nature of the silicone & itās elasticity? Now I am a complete layman when it comes to materials, but I liken it to a slingshot. How far does one expect to sling the stone if they pulled on the silicon tethers juuusst beyond the point of natural tension? And how much further & faster would that stone be propelled if you pulled far beyond that point of tension? Maybe thatās how this grommet is operating here. Soāmy humble theoryāin short, is to suggest that if you are not a player who ārides-the-gateā, you may not experience the neutral return that one may expect, certainly from the higher tension silicone grommets.
Another issue I had with this 60a grommet was that the cardinal inputs seemed muddied. Though I only experience this with the cardinal directions and not at all with the diagonals, so perhaps @wazwuzā decision to bore out the corners was a justified exercise. It certainly seemed to help with this grommet. I didnāt experience this at all with anything 55a or below, but with those level of tensions one may not experience the difference in force necessary to activate cardinals versus diagonals. But with the 60a-dark blue grommet, it was certainly noticeable. That high level of tension paired with the 180gf AM5 switches made dashing feelā¦ weighted. Though this was slightly corrected by introducing the smaller 15.5mm bronze grommet (which Iāve yet to equip at this point). This would be right in line with my claim about the lever having a quicker return to neutral the further it was from center. Certainly .5mm isnāt going to get you that much closer to the collar wall before returning to neutral, but I will say that that there was an improvement in the cardinal movement from there onward (with the 15.5mm actuator).
Just a bit of anecdotal evidence here that I think is worth getting into. I decided to swap out the AM5 switches for the Gersung A2s, thinking that this would further improve the cardinal movement with the 60a grommet, as perhaps there was just too much tension coming from multiple components (grommet & microswitches). And I must say that the combination of 60a silicone + Gersung A2s + 15.5mm bronze actuator was almostā¦ unplayable. I could not hit diagonals whatsoever. All this from merely swapping microswitches & nothing else. My attempts to wave dash would result in my character just rapidly crouching in place. Sure, the cardinal movement/inputs were further improved by installing the Gersung A2s, but I clearly had bigger issues now. Soā¦ I decided to simply up the actuator size; I stepped it back up to the default (Myoungshin) size of 16.5mm. I was lucky enough to snag one of the few stock-size bronze kits from @wazwuz, so it was in fact a 16.5mm bronze actuator & not the stock plastic actuator I was reintroducing. And wouldnāt you know it, after the swap of the 15.5mm actuator to the 16.5mm, the lever was functional again! Literally 1mm greater in diameter made all the difference. So let that be a lesson to anyone swapping out the stock microswitches, to learn the activation points of those plungers, because you will have to then adjust the size of your equipped actuator, shaft, or both to yield desired results. If my memory serves me, think @Agieze gave a rundown on here not too long ago about the activation point of AM5 versus Gersung A2s, and I want to say that AM5 switches activatedā¦ sooner? Wellā¦ that proved to be 100% here in a field test.
Iāve yet to swap out my stock shaft for either of the 8mm or 10mm shafts, only because Iām not one who really maxes out the travel/leverage, resulting in hitting the collar, so the diameter size of the shaft is almost negligible to me. Iāve yet to test the red 65-a grommet as well, because itād likely be approaching stock Taeyoung grommet tensionā¦ which is far too resistant for my taste (or anyoneās whoās ever tried a stock Taeyoung). But if soon a time comes that I do try these components, I of course will share that here. That about concludes my testing on the Golden Fanta kit. As I write this, I can happily say that my previously preferred combination of 50a nitrile rubber grommet + Gersung A2s + 16.5mm (stock Myoungshin) plastic actuator has now only improved with the simple upgrade of introducing the 15.5mm bronze actuator (paired with Panasonic AM5 microswitches). This was only made possible by way of @wazwuz & his Golden Fanta project.
Ohā¦ I just wanted to button this up by sharing my thoughts on the actuators, since Iāve now had the opportunity to test all 3 provided to me (15.5mm, 16mm, & 16.5mm). I want to say that these were easily the most coveted components of the kit for me, then followed by the grommets, & lastly the shafts. Iām perhaps a bit biased only because I prefer my nitrile grommet to any silicone offering here, but I feel actuators made an almost equal difference in lever experience as did the grommets. I wouldnāt have guessed that before performing actual real-world tests. As I stated above, with a 1mm difference in actuator diameter making a lever go from unplayable to playable, I didnāt have that experience with stepping up or down 10a in grommet tension (from baseline). I should also state that there was a bit of black dust pooled underneath my lever after only a few days of practice, a result of the friction between the the bronze actuator & stainless steel microswitch levers. I donāt know that this will continue post a ābreak-inā period, ā¦whatever that may mean to the repeated & prolonged friction between these two metals are, but something to consider for players with plexiglass bottom panels. You may have a bit of a pooled black glittery mess on your hands. @wazwuz Any insight on this & if it will continue?
Holy crap Antonio that was a novel!