Is there a big difference between crown 303 and 309? I am play 3 days on 303 and quite satisfied with it. Is it worth to spend additional money on 309?
Concerning the fujin V2 grommet, logic dictates that the 4 small holes in the corners are far too close to the plastic bushingâs (aka spool) outer edge. That is exactly in the vicinity of the groove that is present in a stock myungshin grommet, now gone in the fujin mod. The groove is where the elastomer flexes most and the grommet is thinnest, so holes in that region could eventually lower the service life of a grommet depending on how they were implemented.
The Kaze grommet (forgot which version) has 4x3 small holes very close to the groove + 4 other holes located as in a stock fanta grommet, itâs not the fujin that has 16 âsofteningâ holes, it only has 4. Iâm pretty sure you even posted about it a while ago, either here or on your website.
Something else, the fujinV2 switch plate (and restrictor)âŚI have the strong impression the prototypes for this mod started with a SEIMITSU LS-32 steel plate, old version, flipped the other side, they drilled the necessary holes , then ditched the round opening (actual fujin is square , beveled) when doing the final , non-proto part, out of a virgin blank plate of metal (the round protrusions seem to not be the same).
Intriguingly, the oldschool ls-32 switch plate had (edit) 1 hole at the edge of the plate, in one of the rounded protruding parts (but not in all 4, the three other served to secure the switches thatâs all) , they didnât serve any purpose in the ls-32, the plate was in fact also used by a fire-button battop joystick , le LSX31 by seimitsu , to hold the fire microswitch, thatâs why (see here https://image.ibb.co/gghxiQ/seimitsu_lsx31.jpg ). Now that the fire joystick is discontinued, seimitsu uses a new version ls-32 square plate without the rounded protruding parts.
It is those round parts and the hole location in the fujin V2 that is so similar to the ls-32 part :
Fujin V2 vs seimitsu LS-32 switch plate,old version, flipped, for ease of comparison
edit 2020 :For easy identification, Fujin logo (top) vs Fujin 2 pre revision(middle) vs Fujin 2 revision(bottom)
the pre revision V2 plate without the switches mounted is the version of the plate compared with the ls32 above: we can see the â2â in âFUJIN 2â is hidden under one switch when it is mounted.
yes, it was based on old Crown 303 version. I will give another revised grommets for free when Golden crown is ready, and anyone else who have bought silicone crown grommets (old model). Please remaind me when you make order for golden crown.
For now, I am still waiting replacement parts from Rohan to make my 309M became 309MJ.
I had a chance to finally test some of the Golden Fanta components this weekend, and Iâd like to share some of those findings here. The Golden Fanta component testing pairings are as follows:
Test 1: Clear-35a silicone grommet + 16mm bronze actuator
Test 2: Green-45a silicone grommet + 16mm bronze actuator
Test 3: Light Blue-55a silicone grommet + 16mm bronze actuator
And for posterityâs sake, Iâll state that I used a Taeyoung lever, not a Myoungshin, and Panasonic/Matsushita AM51630C69N microswitches (180gf) for all 3 tests. As well I used the stock Taeyoung shaft, though I couldnât tell you if it measures the 8mm or 9mm unfortunately.
Test 1
First was the clear-35a. In my testing, sadly, I found it to be far too soft to have much redeeming value. I guess thatâs the great thing about this project, that @wazwuz blessed us with as many options as he did, as @VarmintBaby mentioned that this was his most favored grommet. Though unfortunately I found this grommet nearly unplayable. The combination of the light tension, coupled with the added weight of the bronze actuator (8x the weight of stock?) would create this this pendulous deflection that can at times be too out-of-control if the player isnât mindful of the possibility. I could just foresee issues with that combination. I didnât test the grommet with the stock 16.5mm (plastic) actuator, as I imagine that may curb this amped deflection. Even still, the grommet simply wasnât the clear winner for me here.
Test 2
Next up was the green-45a. This was superior to the clear-35a in every way, though not a huge step obviously (with it only being a step up of 10a). It was preferable, though not ideal. It just didnât have the responsiveness I was looking for (& accustomed to). I didnât have high expectations for this one, as there was so much left to be desired by the clear-35a. I almost knew I wouldnât be getting closer to that âGoldilocksâ lever until the ~50-60 tension grommets, but I wanted to assure myself that there wouldnât be any surprises in the green-45âthere were not. Though certainly, the man himself (@wazwuz) stated earlier in this thread that he prefers this grommet overall. So it looks like they all do not go without their merit in the hands of the correctly matched player.
Test 3
And finally, the light blue-55a, was approaching the behavior Iâve come to expect from Fanta levers. This felt the closer to stock of the 3 (for what thatâs worth), though I havenât yet tested the dark blue-60a grommet. As a caveat, I will say that Iâve tested a silicone 60a ASI grommet in the past, though this was very early on in the beginning stages of the current Golden Fanta project, as the grommets didnât yet possess the 4 corner holes, so the experience may differ now that they do. As a matter of fact I still own that silicone 60a (without the holes); I could maybe do a comparison test in the future. But back to the light blue-55a; it has the quick(er) return to neutral, a predictable deflection (that is to say it isnât as wild as the previous lighter tension silicone grommets), and simply put it was the most fitting of the 3 grommets tested with my current setup (explained above). Now as much as I enjoyed playing on this pairingâwhich was ~100 games of T7âI still canât with confidence say that I prefer it to my old set up of an ASI nitrile 50a grommet + Gersung A2s + 16.5 stock Myoungshin actuator. Itâs close, and maybe with some more tweaking, I can find that bowl of porridge I enjoy the most.
Now, I should take this opportunity to say that as it stands right now, I still prefer the action of Fanta grommets composed of nitrile rubber over both latex and silicone. Nothing comes close to curbing deflection, whilst also increasing neutral return, and still keeping the resistance in that zone that feels broken in out of the box than nitrile. Itâs superior in my opinion. Itâd be my personal recommendation that ASI pursues more (or at least equal) nitrile options for both Fanta & Crown levers going forward.
Also, I think this was hit upon earlier in this thread, but I wanted to add to the notion that one can almost neglect the hardness rating of these grommets, as they can only be compared versus another grommet of the same chemical composition. For example, if a player wanted to mimic the identical hardness of a stock Myoungshin (~45a-50a) latex grommet, one couldnât just swap this out in favor of the ASI green-45a silicone grommet. The action is different. That isnât to say that it wonât be close, but as a reference, one would have to go up ~10a in hardness when coming from latex to silicone to mimic the same resistance. Though again, the action will still remain very unique from one to the other.
@wazwuz
Thank you for everything youâve supplied myself, those who follow this thread, and as well some lucky few others with components that weâd only be dreaming of, if not for you to come along with your contribution. Iâm sure I can speak for everyone in saying that your service has been invaluable, and we do not take it for granted. I look forward to what youâll unveil next.
@Agieze
Sadly I do not have access to a Fujin v2. Though I should probably just bite the bullet and order one from makestick. From what I remember, the Fujinâs grommet (minus the pivot) appears similar to the ASI/Golden Fanta grommets: with the 4 corner holes that go completely through the grommets.
Interesting observation on the similarities between the Seimitsu mounting plate & the Fujinâs. Youâre probably right about that.
Good observation on your part too. The holes in stock fanta grommet may be just mold push-out pin locations, since they donât go completely through, I also highly doubt the change in input force is noticeable with such tiny and far placed (pin)holes, funny thing is their existence inspired the people who made the fujin, kaze, golden fanta grommets, although this time the holes are self-admitted intentional part of the design.
Fujin v2 grommet for anyone interested. Iâd grab some caliper measurements of the bushing, but itâs currently in use.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Thanks for the pic!!
On the grooved side, the holes are definitely going through the grooved flex zone . Not a big fan of that kind of concept .
We can see the additional âhalfway throughâ holes (which are probably just push out points ) in the four corners (same as stock myungshin) on the grooved side as well.
Hey guys, I here is my two cents on the recent Golden Fanta batch after a week of playing.
I have tested almost all combinations and unfortunately I couldnât find anything I like. This maybe because I only have gersung switches from stock myoungshin and crown 303 to play around with.
Anything less than 50a was unplayable for me so I will group my thoughts on them together. First the silicone is way too light for me. I prefer not being able to feel the gate, but even a small amount of movement would have me hitting the gate unless I tried to be really compact with my movements which then led to me to the issue of it not returning to neutral fast enough. wave, wave, ewgf, ewgf, turned into dash, df+2. This became worse with the shorter throw and larger actuator because you would be engaged in the switches longer and earlier. It did feel smooth though. 45a felt more like stock 303 crown from what I remember. I could still engage in corners, but I also got a lot of deflection and would have to force the stick into neutral instead of letting it naturally hit neutral.
50a was getting better, but I still suffered from the same issues as above. Mostly riding the gate and not having neutral soon enough. If I slowed my technique down and really thought about it, I could make things work. However in a match situation this is not ideal.
55a was actually a little more stiff than my stock rubber. With the combination of my switches and using the smaller actuator, it reminded me of using the 60a rubber from ASI with the crown 303fk with stock switches because it was stiff and return to neutral was good, but I wouldnât get any corners unless I forced them. At this point using a larger actuator with stock switches is the only option for me. I went back to 45a at this point to give it another chance since I didnât want to feel like I need to wrestle with the stick to play.
60a: Not anything new because I had a chance to try this grommet when testing the Kowal universal plate and kit to make the fantas work on Japanese mounting/hole sticks. I used this grommet the most because it works with my playstyle. Like the 55a grommet, the smaller actuator didnât work out and I would get a lot of missed corners. The larger actuator does make life a lot easier. I have been sticking to the 8mm shaft for most of the higher tension stuff because having a shorter throw was really weird to me.
Final Verdict: I am sticking with 60a/8mm shaft/16.5mm actuator because its the only one I feel like I can use. The higher tension grommets seem to only be playable with the bigger actuator and stiffer microswitches. The panasonic switches would make life much better, but at this moment with what I have to work with I havenât found a combination that is comfortable, but lets me play the way I want to. This is just me though so I am sure everyone else is having much different results. Thanks to the support for this mod though I am starting to get closer to finding the perfect stick for me.
@jey-are @Antonio-o-o
Thank you for your feedback, I really glad finally you can enjoy Fanta the way you want it. Knowing more people were pleased with my work really encurage me to do more. I have more crazier mod in my mind to make K-stick more customizeable and improve itâs performance, and at some point I will make my own version of K-stick that will include heavy modding that only can be done in workshops.
@AznSensation45
Iâm sorry you havenât find your perfect K-stick. From the issue you have, I suggest you to try panasonic switches, I see many user (including me) like it and perfect match for Golden mod.
But donât worry, if fanta is not your perfect K-stick, then maybe your can find it on project Golden Crown.
Golden Crown project.
For seniors K-stick enthusiasm, please give me your input:
I see Crown have spring on the grommets, do this spring will act like shockabsorber for deflection? If yes, then this will benefit lighter grommets.
Do the 309MJ (chopped collar) have the same travel with 309M (collarless) using its stock 9mm shaft?
I see crown have more grouped switches placement about 1mm less than fanta, will this make easier to hit diagonal or the same with fanta ? (both using stock actuator).
What parts do you want to include in projcet Golden Crown?
@wazwuz, the same as the first Golden Fanta batch. Multiple sizes of actuators, a few Sanwa shaped actuators, more variety in tension grommet and larger and shorter throw shafts. I donât think the crowns need a switch support like the Fanta.
Also, it might be useful to play around with the spring inside the crown. By this I mean with or without, maybe even trying different spring tensions.
Where can anyone get Panasonic Switches without buying an entire stick that has them?
Are the collars on k sticks supposed to be higher than the surface of the base? Is it like this at Korean arcades as well?
2-3 mm above the top panel.
Oh ok, ty.
@FatalFRAME, thatâs correct unless you get a 303MJ or 309MJ. Those sticks are supposed to fit Japanese sticks.
ordered
https://www.focusattack.com/crown-cwl-309mj-jms-st25-joystick-clear-white/
just got in mail
Spoiler
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/images/5952c29322c3920a9b33f885.jpg
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/images/5952c29522c3920a9b33f886.jpg
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/images/5952c29622c3920a9b33f887.jpg
bastard child of 303 and 309, or am I missing something???
I hope you address this with themâŚthis is unacceptable
Looks like IST sent Focus Attack the 303mj instead of the 309mj
303MJ
I noticed that @wazwuz was sent the wrong order from them as well.
Does it have the thicker grommet? I donât see any actual difference described on the makestick site. The plastic color is different, but everything else looks the same.