The Stick Fujin has hard tension too
omg dude, screw the Taeyoung fanta. I still have nightmares trying to break in that stick. The rubber on that thing, it’s just rock hard.
I honestly think there is no way someone can realistically get used to the tension of that caliber.
The Kaze stick sounds appealing though, they are trying to make the stick easier to move, but still maintain it’s ability to return to the neutral quickly.
I think hard gourmmets similiar to the Taeyoung would take months to break in. You could be practicing 8 hours a day and the rubber on that thing would still be hard. The rubber groummet would break you in before you break it in.
If I were to try to break in a joystick with a monstrous tension like the Taeyoung all over again, I would invest in one of these. I wouldn’t even try to break in the stick. I would try to build strength and see if I could get used to it.
http://i.imgur.com/3pxABHJh.jpg
Just got my 309MJ today (well it was at my work’s mail room since Monday but they forgot to notify me). It looks like I got the Panasonic switches instead of the Gersung A2s. Though, I have to say this is a big improvement over the 307 that is in my Panzer widebody (particularly the chopped collar on the 309MJ).
Maybe it’s from a new shipment IST got. Crown probably got feedback from some people who modded it preferred Panasonics. They sorta trigger faster (may be lighter) than the Gersungs.
At the least you can get the same Gersungs shown on Makestick’s website easily. As for the GSM-V1623A2, they don’t feel really different from the V0323A3.
No not really. Notice where the holes are drilled, on each 4 cardinal directions only, **not ** on the diagonals.
What this does is lessen the resistance of the rubber , a sort of “soft start” only for the four cardinal directions until the shaft is pushed far enough to feel the resistance of the solid hard rubber without any holes.It is a common solution in rubber bumpers actually, where only one material is used (say a hard rubber) and the part has hollow parts . Actually many rubber soles use the same principle, but it serves the shoe industry better, as the protruding parts on a sole will also enhance grip on various surfaces, as opposed to a lever grommet where grip is not needed (at all).
It’s also a cheaper solution to replace a more costly solution of having overmoulded rubber parts over a core one ( industrially, dual moulding is often used , to have parts with a soft rubber in some places and a stiffer one in others, all part of the same piece). In the design shown with this lever model it is prone to have the holed out zones wear out faster (higher contact surface, drilled out parts compress more than they should… and will bend in all directions ). Soft rubbers compress and extend to a much higher percentage before failing than harder/stiffer ones. Do the math, a hard rubber part with inital contact zones that seem “drilled out” will fail faster. Considering the low cost of korean latex grommets, it doesn’t seem to be an issue to replace them after a few months in a cab, but it may be a drawback for people who prefer reliability over a long period.
Otoh, the fact that only the four cardinal directions have a “soft start” from neutral (hence a form of progressive resistance) and not the diagonals will add a touch of “four way” arcade restriction on the moves. Why four way?? is’nt four way the type of restriction that prevents hitting diagonals? Exactly. But here it concerns only the first degrees away from neutral position, and imho it is made to make pure cardinal direction dashes easier -with a reduced risk of hitting accidentally a diagonal in the process- .
If you think about it, it is radically the opposite feel and concept compared to japanese 8-way square restrictors (or the “fujin” restrictor for korean modded sticks), since square 8-way restrictors ease diagonal inputs, not by modifying the spring or grommet resistance, but by simply leaving enough space in the rounded corners of the restrictor to push further the shaft in the diagonal directions .
Crowns and Fantas do have restriction, but since it is located so close to the grommet , it isn’t really effective so it’s no surprise some modders came up with the “fujin” plate restrictor.
To each his own preferred feel for a lever anyways.
The Dual molding sound interesting.
Also welcome back
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve tried multiple times to break in the Taeyoung grommet; it’s just not worth it. It’s ~55-60 shore hardness, which is on the heavy end of latex grommets. It’s not practical to play on a grommet of this hardness, as they seem to return closer to their stock hardness after a generous length of little to no use. So it’s a full time gig.
I personally love the Taeyoung, if for no other reason than the microswitches are placed ever more closely than that of the Myoungshin. Also, the microswitches barriers on the Taeyoung offer more security than those found on the Myoungshin (without fujin v1 plate). This coupled with the fact that the Taeyoung has a ~2-3mm taller shaft, it’s a perfect combination for me. I’d be surprised if the Taeyoung (& it’s scarcity) wasn’t the inspiration for the Fujin v2. Of course… the Taeyoung’s grommet needs replacing (as does the actuator), but even still it’s my preferred lever above all Korean levers.
…on the topic of Fujin v2:
@CaliburX
Does your Fujin v2 have a black or white molded pivot (the plastic center component that the grommet is mounted on)? The photos I’ve seen of the v2 always display a white pivot, but your appears to be black? Perhaps your v2 that was sourced maintains a stock Myoungshin pivot?
I actually use a Taeyoung with sanwa levered switches a softer grommet and a Myungshin actuator. A lot of modification for one thing but it’s definitely a good feeling. Gonna try silent Zippy levered switches next, since I can’t easily find levered Sanwa DR-V’s.
I ordered this grommet from focus attack: https://www.focusattack.com/60a-shore-rubber-grommet-for-crown-303-fk-307/
Are you saying this shiz is gonna be rock hard and super stiff? I got it because the one that came with my default Crown 307 from FA is flimsy as all hell. I think they sent me a used Crown because the contacts were bent like someone tried to fit it in a small stick. Can you put the grommet in the microwave or anything to soften it up? Even with the flimsy rubber I have now I love this stick in my Hori VLX Premium for Tekken. Please let me know if this grommet I ordered is going to be a bear and if there’s anything I can do about it. Thanks…
I had to change the rubber since it was too stiff for me, but mine came with a white pivot and black rubber. the plastic piece in the middle of the rubber is exactly the same thing found in the myoungshin lever, just a different color.
Interesting. You mean the MS-02s? I’ve always told myself I would test Korean levers with those switches (as well as the AM51662C5N switches found in the LS-32) but never bothered to purchase the individual switches to do so. The softer grommet you’re using, where is it sourced from?
On the topic of levered DR-Vs, you can simply create them. I purchased a series of D2RV-Gs (that were found on the silent JLF before they began including the silent G2s) for the sole purpose of modding them by way repurposing levers found on some older Gersung A2s. So, if you’re lucky enough to obtain them (I think PAS may still carry them[?]), all you would need to do is pop the rivet out of the switches by way of the bottom (/non convex) side of the rivet and force it down/out. You’ll hear a pop, but it’s typical, don’t mind it. You carefully place the levers from any old levered microswitch into the appropriate slot of the D2RV-G, reassemble, and pop the rivet back in. If the rivet isn’t as secure as it was before the mod, don’t worry. Gravity is on your side because the D2RV-Gs mount convex side up, and as well the screws that mount the microswitch will hold everything securely.
No, it’s not going to be super resistant nor flimsy. It’s certainly going to behave differently than silicone. If you purchased your 307 from fadc, and it came with a black actuator, it’s likely a 50a shore silicon grommet that shipped in this pairing. As a result, the ASI grommet you have en route is going to be on par with resistance you’re experiencing now (though perhaps ever slightly more resistant), but will behave (favorably) a bit differently in other regards. In my opinion, any rubber manufactured from Arcade Stick Indonesia is going to be superior to that even of the stock grommets that come from Myoungshin or Crown. Having said that, going from silicon to that nitrile (no, it is not latex) rubber grommet is going to feel vastly different than stock because not only are you going higher in tension but as well as a completely different rubber composition. With that nitrile grommet you’re likely going to experience (slightly) increased tension & decreased deflection; I don’t think you’ll be disappointed in your purchase.
Also, you should know that the grommets found in the Fanta (Myoungshin & Taeyoung) are thicker than anything found on Crown (though the 309 has increased the thickness closer to that of Fanta’s now). So if you’re just looking at a static number (ie 60a), it’s not going to be 1:1 when sourced from different lever manufacturers (ie Crown vs Myoungshin), and/or even from varying materials (ie nitrile vs latex). So when I say the Taeyoung grommet ~55 hardness, it cannot be compared to a Crown grommet of ~55 hardess, even with the identical chemical composition because of thickness disparity (as well as the inclusion of the spring of Crown levers). They’re apple to oranges.
Oh really? It came with a white pivot? It appeared black in the photo you uploaded. Is the pivot truly exactly like the one found in a stock Myoungshin? I’ve heard that the shaft is more tightly secured when threaded through the white fujin’s pivot than the Myoungshin. Is that not true? On the actual grommet, is it more like a latex or silicone rubber?
Edit:
It appears I was identifying the (black) molded housing of the Myoungshin & not the pivot (that was masked by the housing).
I was thinking of replacing my Sanwa JLF with either a 309MJ or Myoungshin in preparation for Tekken 7. Could anyone tell me how they each compare? I was reluctant to buy the 303 because I had heard that the quality was sub-par in comparison to the Myoungshin. Is the 309MJ as good in terms of quality? How does it differ in feel? should i drill my case for a Myoungshin or buy a 309MJ?
If you do drill your case, you will need to also do so on a spare Sanwa JLF mounting plate. Aside from creating a 35mm hole, you need to create new holes that’s slightly outside it so it cam stay put. As long as you as you pay attention, it shouldn’t be a problem.
If you are scared of damage marks, the 309MJ should work. It’s more or less Crown’s interpretation of the Fanta lever with aid from Helpme. Maybe lighter tension but pretty balanced and accessible for most folks. Also it has a portion of the Korean neck gate for accuracy.
On a side note, the 303 Japanese mounted models felt all right for me. It’s different because of the relatively small actuator but still pretty playable.
I think you would be happy with the 309MJ. It’s my new favorite. I like it because it’s really easy to hit accurate diagonals for moves like PEWGF, JSFR, OTGF etc… These are moves I could never do consistently on any of my other levers including the standard Myoungshin and Airbag lever. I have a ton of different korean levers and was presently surprised by the 309MJ. I tried it with the standard 25 as well as a 35, 50 and 60 tension grommet and found the 50 to be the best balanced after some play time.
Comparing it to a real fanta lever the main differences I feel when playing are:
- I hit the gate sooner, I don’t feel like I’m floating in the rubber the way I do on an air bag.
- the corner doesn’t feel as deep, which is most likely what helps with hitting diagonals more consistently.
Thanks for the help, The Phantomnaut and DJ-Blitz, I think I will try the 309MJ and some other tensions. My final question is about the micro switches. Do any of you think it is worth trying out the Fantas’ Gersungs?
Ordered from MakeStick.com:
My 309MJ came with Gersung switches.
My 303MJ came with Thailand switches.
My 309 Korean mount lever came with Thailand switches.
If you order from MakeStick.com, rohann9963@gmail.com should be able to confirm what they’re shipping with currently.
Personally I prefer Gersung switches with the 309MJ, they seem to activate a little later which makes them more forgiving.
Do you know what model switches they were, in the 309MJ, are they GSM V0323A3s? I believe I might prefer the less forgiving GSM V1623A2
Has anyone put Crown 203A buttons in a fighting edge? I bought a set from PAS while in Minnesota and am concerned that they’ll be too small for the FE’s holes
GSM V1623A2 in my 309MJ
I have 0323a3’s in another stick, not really a fan of those.
@DJ-Blitz Weird that your order got the Gersung while my order had the Thai switches. I don’t have issues of using them at the moment. Though, I might experiment using the Kaze lever switch setup where the Gersungs are setup for up input with the rest being the Thai switches.