I sent an email, and from the response it looks like the 309M will be stocked in the next couple of weeks. Like as soon as next Monday even.
@The Phantomnaut
By the gate, you mean specifically the bottom half of the housing, correct?
And hearing that they are not 1:1, as I suspected, just reassures my decision on having a panel that accepts Korean mounts.
Thanks for the info.
ā¦on a side note, do you own a Taeyoung Fanta? If thereās anyone on here that owns one, Iād imagine itās you (ā¦or @kkolding). There isnāt much discussion here about the lever here, surprisingly. Though itās been discontinued from etokki, the only e-store that sold itā¦ so I guess I shouldnāt be that surprised. I have just recently gone back to the Taeyoung after it was relegated after a mere 6 months by that of the Myoungshin nearly a decade ago, but I can soundly say that after some test runs with various mods & minor part swaps, I prefer it over my Myoungshin.
(Alright, for anyone interested in why that is, feel free to settle in & read on.)
I landed on the shaft and housing (or āsoulā) of the Taeyoung, combined with the actuator, Gersung A2s (red tabs), and (medium tension) grommet of the Myoungshin. I highly recommend this combination. The selling point for returning to the Taeyoung originally was that the switches are perched in a closer orientation than that of the Myoungshin, so thatās ideal for the obvious reason, but of course is left up to personal preference. The deal breaker on the Taeyoung was always the stiffness of the grommet, and the stock actuators inability to hit diagonals consistently enough (which is never an issue on the Myoungshin). Iām sure Iāve frankensteinād these sticksā respective components years ago, but I didnāt know what the hell I was doing back then, nor would I be able to spot a change unless it was overt. So about the āTā grommet, I omitted it completely; itās still far too rigid. But you gain an additional & welcomed bonus when using a āMā grommet in place of the Taeyoungās, which is that the ID (inner diameter) of the plastic center piece (that the shaft is threaded through) is just slightly smaller than that of the stock āTā grommet. It will still accept a Taeyoung shaft, but itās a bit more snug than that of the āMā shaft (as itās even more snug that a āMā shaft through itās own respective āMā grommet). This is the welcomed side effect that I mentioned earlier. This creates a more assured feeling of the lever when in neutral. The deadzone doesnāt feel as floaty, the lever now feel more surefire & at-the-ready when in the dead zone. Itās no longer the wobbly mess thatās for years been par for the course for us Korean stick users. I then remembered kkholding stating on this very thread that this instance (of the tighter fit within the center piece) was a characteristic of the famed Fujin v2 lever: Iām not surprised.
The only other detail of this mod thatās worth mentioning is the Taeyoung shaft itself, and why I chose it over the Myoungshin shaft. The āTā lever is ~4mm taller than that of the āMā lever. And mind you that this is from the above the lower milled part of the shaft, where the actuator rests, so there absolutely no issue with the swap. As well as the āTā lever being slightly taller, the knob also has a slimmer profile than that of the āMā knob. I prefer this over the fatter & shorter āMā knob, as the āTā knob has a greater ease about itās ergonomic design. I feel that I have more control with the slimmer lever, and having my hand almost perpendicular with the panel than that of the conical ergonomic of the āMā shaft/lever & hand being slightly more obtuse in relationship to the panel as a result. If youāre a Mishima (Tekken) player, the orientation & relation of your hand to the panel & lever is of the utmost importance. Now this subtle size discrepancy of the shaft/knob may not be immediately evident to the eye, when comparing the two, but your hand will note the difference immediately. To anyone out there, if youāre fortunate to have both these levers on hand, give it a shot.
Planning to get the kof xiv hori rap iv kai stick. Is there any way to throw a crown or fanta stick in it? If so, can you guys direct me to whichever site I need to go to in order to get this going?
Oh I meant by that that top neck on normal Korean models. For my Korean Panzer, Jasen might have compensated for a little more than 35mm to keep it from being tight.
As for a Taeyoung Fanta, I actually donāt own one. I missed the last boat when Etokki had them. I doubt it will be available even with the listing. Great to know more about what it can do stock and mod-wise. If I ever find oneā¦
Crownās Japanese mounted levers (the ones without the weird neck gate on top) will work with the RAP4. The soon to be released 300M series from Crown should also be the same. As for normal Korean mounted levers, you canāt without modification. For that stick being the KOFXIV edition, I wouldnāt recommend it.
Etokki, Paradise Arcade Shop and Focus Attack have a couple of Crown levers. All three have the 303 but the latter two have the 307. I would recommend the 303 if you need one soon. Makestick.com will offer the 309M and the 303M either in a couple of days or a couple of weeks. They should be in theory better than the ones the other three stores have.
Why do you recommend the 303 over the 307? Has a new iteration of a Crown lever ever not been better than itās predecessor? Maybe the 305 isnāt in the same running as that lever looks to be an outlier of traditional Korean stick designs, with itās square actuator & such, itās own animal? Is your suggestion of the 303 simply because itās a better introduction to K levers than the 307? Also, whatās the word on this new 300M series?
Even with a good combination of parts, the 307 feels like the weakest from Crown. Itās more of a modern take of their old CWL-303 model from years back. When T6 came out in Korea, I think they were equipped with the old 303 levers back then but were slowly replaced by Myoungshin Fantas. Crown probably saw that they needed to adapt and get closer to the Fanta but not be a clone at the time.
Personally the 307 feels like I am possibly going to trigger an unintended input at any moment due to its actuator. I tried multiple options including equipping the non ST 307 actuator with A4 or A3 Gersung switches and I still get the problem. For something like Street Fighter, it might be fine to work with. When trying KOF or Tekken where motions are a bit more involving, I donāt get consistent results.
The 303 is closer to a Fanta, albeit with a smaller actuator and larger funnel in the gate for the normal Korean version. The 309 though is a better introduction because itās Crownās more solidifed take on a Fanta.
As for the 305, I think itās its own beast. I havenāt gone into trying it yet because I am too obsessed over the newer models.
As I mentioned, the 300M series seem like they are designed to resolve issues in the original Japanese mounted levers, especially the gate. Because of that, they inserted a small gate to allow for the same Korean feel while still working on most Japanese sticks. Aside from the mounting plate differences, here is the 303F-ST and the 303MJ.
Could anyone who owns a Fujin v2 tell me where to find these switches independently of the lever? I do know that the Japanese mounted variant of the Crown 307s are equipped with these Matsushita switches, but I donāt see to find them in the wild so to speak. Any leads?
Paging @kkolding
This is probably the closest thing you are gonna get. Aside from the ā16A250VACā designation, the lettering is a bit different from the normal Panasonic/Matsushita switches on Korean levers including the Fujin. Whether or not the tension is different, I donāt know.
A store called IO Lab is selling Magiclab Magicstick-like sticks but a lot wider.
Yeah, in that post of mine I originally linked those very switches, but assumed there was no way that they were the same switches if for no other reason but the orientation of the tabs. But thanks for the reply. Could you tell me what switches come stock on the 309? Also, you couldnāt swap any Crown actuators onto a Myoungshin lever could you? I tried briefly with that of the black 307 actuator but stopped short as it looked like it could go onto a Myounshin shaft, but that I would damage the actuator in the process.
Edit:
I actually I meant to ask about swapping Myoungshin actuators onto crown levers, but itās rather moot considering the the more open orientation of the switches on crown levers.
In test models and I guess the first run of the 309 had Gersungās GSM-V1623A3 switches while they now have GSM-V0323A3.
Yeah the 307 is no good for it due to the design. You can easily equip a 303 or 309 actuator though. The actuatorās hole is slightly bigger than a Myoungshin Fanta but not too much. The 303 actuator is similar sized the custom Green Game Land Fanta. So along with a Panasonic switch, I tried to make a makeshift Green Fanta but it wasnāt performing as well as I would have wanted. The big reason is that the Green Fanta has a thinner shaft that helps with diagonals.
Ahhh, I seeā¦ I see, thanks for that.
Could you tell me how the Green Land Fantaās thinner shaft helps with diagonals? With a thinner shaft, are you suggesting that it has a custom actuator as well that accommodate the thinner shaft, that normal stock Fanta actuators wouldnāt?
Also, the actuator of the 309 looks to have a smaller outer diameter than the white āHelpmeā 20.7mm actuator of the 307, could you tell me if in fact it is smaller? Are the the switches seated more closely together on the 309 than that of the 307 to compensate for this (presumed) smaller actuator? Iāve only played on the 307 with the black (smaller) actuator, and would have difficulty hitting diagonals no matter the grommet tension or microswitch gf operation. So if in fact the switches in the 309 are seated exactly as the 307s, Iād imagine a similar issue given the size of the actuator pictured above.
From what I seen and actually felt, itās multiple things that help the diagonals. The Panasonic switches are lighter and trigger differently from Gersung switches. Donāt know why Green uses them so whatever. A smaller actuator like the size of a 303 is better than something like a normal Myoungshin Fanta piece. A smaler actuator doesnāt accidentally trigger a random input as easily. I will digress but the FLF lever from IST uses the stock Fanta actuator/Panasonic switch combo and is fairing a bit better. Not much better than adding the switches to a normal Fanta but still better.
Since Green doesnāt shave off the plastic of the neck gate to create a larger funnel like a normal 303, what they have done is make a thinner shaft. The top end should be the same diameter as the bottom half with the middle being the same as the stock to allow the shaft to not slip through the grommet. If you used the stock Fanta shaft with Panasonic switches and an actuator like the 303, you will likely get a very small diagonal zone like I experimented with. With the thinner shaft, the zone is increased at the expense of a bit more effort to travel.
The 309 bears closer to a 303/Fanta. The 307 is a throwback to their older models where the switches are spaced a bit outward to warrant the T-style actuator. Helpmeās version of the 307 didnāt make it out in the market probably due to the reviews of the test units. This was the same with Crazy Dongpalās 307. Only the 309 really made it out which Helpme actively uses and seems to have been accepted as a go to lever in Korean arcades.
Interesting that you say that the Panasonic/Matsushita are lighter, as I just gained access to a set from a new 307 lever and though I felt they feel very similar to the GSM-V1623A2s found on the Myoungshin, Iād commit to saying they are arenāt as light as the Gersungs. The activation point seems very similar, also I would agree that the trigger action feels different between the two, but the A2s Iām weighing them against are after only a month of use and the Gersungs still feel ever slightly softer. Having said that, Iāve yet to actually test the Panasonic switches on the lever, so I may just be talking out of school here maybe. But when I do get around to testing, Iāll leave my findings here if I encounter a different experience.
From your reading, I take it that the answer to my question about the 309 microswitch spacing is identical to that of the 307 is no. The 309 bottom molding looks identical to that of the 303, so maybe it is? If thatās the case, then youāre right, a larger actuator wouldnāt be necessary.
I will add that Iām still experimenting with some different components on my Taeyoung/Myoungshin hybrid, one of which was using the (flipped) Taeyoung actuator. It is only slightly smaller than the Myoungshin actuator (fat end), but significantly larger than the opposite & narrower end of the Taeyoung actuator when flipped (but still larger than the narrower end of the Myoungshin actuator). My point being that I had issues with connecting with diagonals. Now this wasnāt every time, or even most of the time. It was just enough instances of missing diagonals that I went back to the stock Myoungshin actuator. Iād be all for an actuator that was sayā¦ 1mm smaller than stock, but any more than that and I feel that it could be enough to cause issue. The flipped Taeyoung actuator was certainly (though not much) more than 1mm smaller than the Myoungshin. I will also say that Iām using the housing of the Taeyoung, which does space the switches more closely than that of the Myoungshin (whether the discrepancy is on par with the 303/309 to 307, I couldnāt say), so youād think one would be able to get away with a slightly smaller actuator. Not only that, but that a slightly smaller actuator would be idealāunfortunately here in this case it wasnāt. Iām back on the Myoungshin actuator, and it isnāt leaving anything to be desired fortunately. Having said that, I do wish there were more options.
About the Helpme 307 mod, I think paradise carries it: http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/crown-307-joystick-lever/1599-crown-307-white-bat-korean-micro-silicone.html
You can see the white actuator touching all the levers, where the model offered from focus attack doesnāt: https://www.focusattack.com/crown-cwl-307fj-jms-st-joystick-clear-white/
Clearly this is an extremely UNscientific test, but just as clearly they arenāt the same actuators. I have a friend who just ordered a 307 from paradise, so soon Iāll be able to know for sure if it is in face the oversized actuator attributed to HelpmeāIām willing to bet it is. Now whether or not the silicone grommet is the 60A (that was paired with the Helpme 307) and not the 55A silicone grommet thatās now ubiquitous, I wouldnāt know. I probably wouldnāt know once I see it in person, as a difference of 5A may be too subtle to judge without tester.
Lastly, I think coupling a thinner shaft with a smaller actuator, no matter the lever, is a clever modification. I can see how that could be effective. So do you have a Greenland Fanta? I know you stated that you modded a lever to be green land fanta-like. What way is there to obtain a thinner shaft āfantaā lever that doesnāt have the bottom business end too (if at all) modified?
Yeah I completely forgot the 307 ST models used the Helpme actuators or at least were inspired.
As for the Green Fanta, ask @kkolding about it since he has one. While I get some looseness and wiggle like what the Green Fanta has but corner coverage isnāt great and doesnāt have that elasticity of the silicone grommets.
On a side note: Makestickās international website is down. Hopefully it doesnāt take a year to restart. I thought they were gonna add new stuff. I recently sorta broke one of my 207 buttons.
EDIT: I guess I can use GMarket for now since they can still ship their stuff internationally through there. They have both Crownās 303 and 309M models.
Thanks for the info. I was just about to state that the MakeStick website is down. Although, I do remember writing them an email concerning the Crown 309M models and if they will be eventually selling them.
Here is a snip of that email I sent about a month ago. Perhaps they are updating their site since it is not available at this time?
Is there a way to get FLF Myoungshin fanta to US?
For now you can get the FLF if you go to ISTmallās Gmarket page. Make sure you are on the Global site so there is international shipping. You might need to buy it with a Makestick Pro so you canāt get it by itself.
Unfortunately after using it for a bit, I am not really liking it. Still an interesting product.
@The Phantomnaut
Which āFantaā sticks in your experience come equipped with silicone grommets? Iām looking to source a silicone grommet that fits in the housing of a Myoungshin (or nearly identical housings). Iāve recently concluded quite a bit of testing of both silicone & latex custom grommets (of varying hardness) for Crown levers, and I almost always preferred the latex variants. Or more accurately, when the shore hardness were identical, the latex grommets were always moreā¦ predictable. This was certainly the case in the sub 60a shore hardness. With this tension or lower, the silicone hardness was too āsoftā to create an experience that creates any real drastic polarity between itself & the latex variant (for me). But the latex would always edge out the silicone in terms of performance. Without getting too wordy or inside baseball, Iāll just reiterate that the latex just felt more predicable. That was preferred.
Iām curious to test a Myoungshin style silicone grommet, to learn if my opinion of the experience would change. For those that donāt know, āFantaā style grommets are slightly thicker than that of the Crown grommets (pre 309). So perhaps a meatier grommet provides a more optimal experience when delving into that territory. Perhaps my expectations were too high for latex grommets, having only heard & read how superior they areāI wasnāt impressed. But again, this is a judgement made solely based upon Crown style grommets, within Crown levers (307 & 303). In their defense, I will say that once the shore hardness climbed into the 70a range, that I could see the appeal. But also, I didnāt have a latex variant of the same tension to test against.
IST FLF is the only one I know that uses the same shaped grommet as a Myoungshin Fanta and is of silicone material.
Thanks.
What tension would you rate it? Is it of greater or lesser tension than that of a stock Myoungshin? Actually, that may be harder to surmise since I think their grommets can vary wildly in tension. Hmmā¦ alright, whatever, in your estimation how would you rate the tension?