I’m getting a Dreamcast arcade stick delivered on Monday. The button holes for that are 28mm. Isn’t there a Korean button that fits that size hole? if so can someone link me or tell me which buttons/model it is? Thanks!
Edit: Decided to use my google fingers. Will these work in a 28mm hole? http://www.etokki.com/Buttons/Crown-CWB203A-Black
Crown’s CWB203C, 203A and 207H buttons are all 28mm.
@Abev
When you have the time of course, if you would please upload photos of your “soft grommet” Taeyoung lever here? I’m curious to learn if anything at all has changed with the lever; be it the housing, shaft, etc. I wonder if it is merely a Taeyoung lever with a new (softer tension) rubber grommet & nothing more.
Cool thanks!
On the 203A and 203C, do those use the standard Sanwa quick disconnects? It doesn’t look like it from the pictures Im seeing? If not, how do you hook those up?
Yeah I’m curious too. The taeyoung, from what I understand was almost identical to the Myoungshin but with slightly better performance, a stiff as heck grommet and a thinner matte bat-top. If taeyoung have addressed the only criticism of the taeyoung and done it well that would be one thing but more improvements is another. Either way, this new stick should be an improvement from the last and I’m curious if other areas have been addressed.
203C buttons require soldering. You can use one end of a QD to connect to one of the 203A pins.
http://www.tek-innovations.com/arthobbies/?loc=products&cat=9&subcat=&item=88
If you get a plexi i think they come with 30mm button holes anyway. this will allow you to add art as well as 30mm buttons. I heard of some people doing this mod to dreamcast sticks before and apparently the quality of the dreamcasts buttons isn’t that different from the crowns but don’t take my word for that
Planning on getting the Fujin before it goes back out of stock, but i cant get my head around the missing dust cover. does this affect game play or comfort? I don’t want to swap the cover of a crown or Myoungshin especially if there isn’t a problem to be fixing. I might just leave it as is because i cant find anywhere that sells just the dust cover. If i did, it would probably not be worth the cost of shipping.
Just letting you know that now you don’t need to purchase an entire ls-32 (or in my case an ls-300 from Arcadeshock) just to get the new Omron microswitches. Focus attack sells them separately Omron microswitches
Is it possible to replace stock mounting plate from Crown CWJ-303A to Myoungshin Fanta, and don’t buy KOWAL converter? The attachment to the body of the joystick looks the same.
The Fujin V2 came today. I have been using the Golden Fanta “8mm shaft/ red soft grommet from Makestick/ stock fanta actuator” since May. My second favorite lever is the Crown 309 helpme Korean mount version.
Here are my first impressions:
[list]
[] Love the look of the Shaft/top
[] I used a dust cover from a Fanta to cover the neck hole.
[] Definitely stiffer then I am used too, but i still like it.
[] I’m never touching the neck/gate when using up, down, left, right. Diagonals do touch.
[] AM51630C69N switches.
[] The switch support is a better design than the airbag IMO.
[*] I still have faster execution with Golden Fanta/soft grommet and 309, but I probably need more time to adjust to the Fujin.
[/list]
Tomorrow I will pick up the Taeyoung Fanta from the post office.
That clear/smoke balltop looks really nice. Do you feel like the Fujin is worth 2-3x the price?
Try taking the white bushing out of the Fujin grommet, put it in a trans red soft myoungshin grommet and throw it in the fujin. This combo is the best fanta that I’ve played on. The bushing in the fujin is oversized so it gives the soft grommet a better feel.
It’s too early for me to say. It has a very unique feel to it tho!
the fujin is wildy overpriced (60-75usd shipping not included) for a simple mod on a myoungshin. the rubber is latex based and won’t last a lifetime, holes are placed in a weird fashion. the top & shaft fastening is shoddy as the parts are mismatched and patched up in epoxy, leaving a threaded part bare which is unacceptable. Bat top is colorless transparent with frosted effect, big deal. No special color , it looks like crap compared to the Nin custom green arcade top(metallic effect, costs only a few cents more in powder).
The switch plate is neatly machined, but is only … a switch plate. LS-32 has a relatively thick steel switchplate and costs a fraction of the price. In fact all japanese sticks use restrictor gates which act as switch stabilizing plates as well , sandwiching the switches in between, screw fastened models (excludes the JLF ) exerting a clamping force with enough pressure such that a LS-32 style steel plate is unnecessary. Design of the Fujin plate is lifted from ls32 and center restricting hole is heavily inspired by a bad idea from the LS-30 variant seen in SNK AES fightsticks (but also in Sigma, ASCII, Exar, Innovation…) : LS30 had a ls-56 style actuator, thin nylon type, and a steel switch plate with no nylon restrictor, the said plate’s stamped out central hole (with rough edges unfortunately, typical from stamping) was also the restrictor. They didn’t have enough time to R&D their LS-30 to make it a simple non-rotary version so the changes were minimal. Alas the steel plate ate the flimsy actuator like candy due to abnormal wear.
Sigma company was more astute for their version and obtained a LS-30 original plate with LS-32 restrictor (square or circle) on it so that they could have nylon-nylon contact and not some poorly manufactured steel edge grinding on a thin nylon actuator.
Fujin plate is well machined and seems of higher quality than the LS-30 variant in question, but still it isn;t ideal, especially for an expensive modded lever, to have the actuator wear prematurely because they thought it was cool to have a 2-in-1 switch plate/restrictor made of metal. the sides are beveled so the contact zone is even smaller with sharper edges, it isn’t an ideal situation for the actuator. Custom spool part is also well made compared to stock myoungshin and probably out of a better material (wild guess, delrin like the Crown custom parts tested by Hibal for 307,309,SDL301) , but still.
IMHO Fujin V2 is worth buying if you consider keeping it as a NOS item and resell it later as a collectible but you can buy almost 3x Crown 309MJ units for that price if your goal is to just have something good quality without forking money out the window…
I’m curious to see how much a SDL301DX will cost though, when it will be released.
A word on the new OMRON switches used in LS-300/Ls-32 LS-40. The ref code is custom, there are as usual messed up digits and the “9” custom digit is there, and the lever hinge is BENT at an angle (are people blind? It sticks out like a sore thumb!!) , probably to make up for some shortcomings of that V line in terms of sensitivity (V line has same actuating specs as Gersung GSM, just to remind : an ugly max 4mm of Pretravel, compared to the neat max 3.2mm pretravel of the discontinued Panasonic switches). One problem when blades are bent to have earlier (or higher) operation is that you make the button dwell deeper and earlier than usual into the overtravel zone when , since the operating & resetting points are displaced altogether, read below for details. Some may like it, others hate it.
Look well, the blade is bent a few millimeters after the red actuating button (plus additional detail see comment just above photo). The fact that it is bent proves that the internal parts of the switch have not been modified , or else they would have never resorted to bending the blade (changing the internal leaf/spring specs , gap, etc would have been enough, but it costs a lot more money to have brand new custom specs)
V-16539-3A5 : 16= 16A/250V rated (confirmed by other markings on the switch) ; 5, 3&9 = bullshit custom numbers to mystify the competition, only Seimitsu and Omron know what they mean ; following 3 = SPST-NO, A=solder legs , 5 = 123N OF for Hinge Lever( ~ 125gf operating force, same as discontinued panasonic model)
“5E4” is just electrical rating testing conditions of 50 000 operations. “T105” means temperature resistant to 105 deg Celsius.
There’s nothing else you need to know about this switch, it’s just a V-162-3A5 with a bent hinge lever and a funky ref code…apart form the fact that some specific operating specs , instead of being run of the mill V series type (4 mm pretravel, 1.6mm overtravel, 1.5mm differential(reset point over the operating point), 15.2mm +/-1.2mm operating point, ~14gf reset force) will be in fact modified by a certain fixed distance to add or remove accordingly, depending on how much the blade is bent (easily measurable with a caliper ).
Normal “hinge lever” blade length is 27.5mm ±0.1 , thickness 0.5mm, material : stainless steel.
Seimitsu claimed that the feel will be “the same as before” which means in theory the distance removed from overtravel by bending the hinge blade should be 4mm -3.2mm = 0.8mm (minimum) , to have an overtravel of 3.2mm like the panasonic. I’m assuming this is how they wanted to reach their goal, but it could be otherwise (imho I doubt so, operating point is the same distance, for example, so tweaking the pretrvael is the simplest cost effective thing to do by chnaging the shaoe of the hinge lever blade)
Then, the actuating point will be shifted upwards , original Omron V : 15.2mm, new with bent blade : 15.2+0.8mm = 16mm , reset point is relative to operating point and will always be 1.5mm above it, reset force doesn’t change. Overtravel is not important , only reset specs are important.
Estimating roughly from the photo with some easy calculations (estimating bending point from roughly 1/2 to 3/4 button thickness after right edge of the button,projected, button being 2.8mm thick and blade 27.5mm long according to datasheet), we assume the tip of the blade is shifted 0.8mm upwards compared to standard blade(see above for reasons), so the bending angle from flat position would be something like 3.79 to 4.02 degrees .
I’m curious to see what actual measurements will give, please consider the fact that my guess is just from a photo. bending angle is only important for those who would like to mod themselves some OMRON V series or Gersung GSM switches if and only if they have the right tools to do so.
It’s impossible to replicate the AM5 hinge lever Panasonic by just bending the blade of the V Omron “operating force equivalent(125gf) hinge lever model” : I assumed all along Seimitsu decided to equalize Panasonic AM5’s pretravel(3.2mm) with that of OMRON V’s (4mm) but it could be that they had some weird idea and decided to equalize some other spec but it would be less probable. Still, whatever the distance the tip of the blade has been moved upwards through bending , this distance will shift also the the reset point and operating point upwards, and you will have something quite different than the famed Panasonic AM5 in any case, even if the shifting is -not- 0.8mm . Only two values will be the same : ONE spec amongst the values in the actuating specs distances…and the operating force ( many other values are similar but not really relevant, generally release force is similar, case dimensions are almost identical etc ).
In any case, in a Seimitsu LS-32 /LS-40 reset point is going to be much more centered than before in the joystick, and players will need to get the shaft almost in neutral to get the switch to reset correctly ( Omron V already reset quite high compared to Panasonic, so shifting that even higher… you get the picture). Custom stronger spring is advised.
Using these switches in a Korean stick , since it has a bigger throw and stronger recenter force than a seimitsu, would be more acceptable imho. The typical tap and release playing technique, as used with Tekken and other 3d fighter games is commonly adopted, so having the stick in neutral almost after each individual input is just part of the routine and not a hassle.
EDIT: on the photo, notice the fastening RIVET is missing 
Wow dude. Very informative.
@Agieze, that’s all based off the picture. Wow dude. I still personally think that there must be some changes internally, but well see when you get your hands on them. Considering Focus Attack still sell the Panasonic type, I think its worth stockpiling. lol.
Also, the Fujin still seems to be the best k stick despite the numerous errors made like the threading on the bat-top, latex tension and the missing dust cover. You could always replace with tension from the golden Fanta mod, and i’m sure that the shaft from a golden Fanta will fit too. I know that the Fujin needs a smaller actuator. The only actuator from the Golden Fanta mod that fit the Fujin was from the first batch. This is because of the arrangement of the switches that I’m really hoping to see the affects of.
@wazwuz for the stick that you planned on building yourself, have you thought of using the switches similarly to the Sanwa? What i mean is how the sanwa uses non-levered switches and the actuator touches the little red button. This would help because it would stop the levers from bending over time as there aren’t any to bend. Not to mention using cherry switches too. I’m no expert on switches but i’m sure you can just remove the lever from a microswitch to have it work in a Sanwa. (@agieze am i right, im unsure?) We might get to bring back those conical actuators again.
No it’s not "all " based off the picture. Read again. Only the angle calculation is. The reference number confirms partially certain things such as 125gf OF, 16A rating, the fact that it is a tweaked V-series model, etc
0.8mm shift is based off predictions stemming from a realistic comparison of tech data : how would one achieve similar “feel” between an Omron V and a Panasonic AM5 of same type(hinge lever) same OF(125gf) with the operating point distance being already the same (15.2/15.3mm). My guess was to cut on the excessive pretravel of the Omron V (4mm) compared to the shorter Panasonic AM5 (3.2mm) in order to make it closer to the latter. I’m sure many would have came to the same conclusion themselves after thinking about it.
0.8mm of hinge lever blade rise is an educated guess that follows a simple line of thought but nothing guarantees it is the case, perhaps Omron did not opt for an -exact- same pretravel as an AM5, sacrificing a few fractions of pretravel distance (+ or -) to make up for other specs that may impede proper play.
Generally players only look at “engage” and “throw” of a fully assembled joystick. Not reset , overtravel and other details concerning -only- the switches . Joystick companies decid for the public in general and impose a switch standard that they find is fit to their specific model. Since “engage” of a joystick is linked directly to a switch’s pretravel spec, for communication needs with the public it is the best spec to tweak if a company wants to mimic another companies’ switch. Because the clients will immediatley think of that spec and only that one they’ve always heard about. Engage.
Why are you “persuaded” the internal specs ahve changed? Also, you didn’t read well my post.
IF they had modified the internal parts of an Omron V to exact specs of a Panasonic AM5, there would be absolutely no reason to have the blade bent also!! Bending this part is also much more cost effective than to have intricate internal technical parts redesigned (the hinge lever blade has nothing complicated or intricate about it).
Absolutely everything else is taken from the datasheets. I provided links to both respective series datasheets in previous posts.
Surprise, I don’t plan on buying these new switches .
You’re right to stock on the Panasonics while you can, it’s a real hassle to order form electronic parts suppliers.
It’s funny to read Seimitsu’s latest excuse, after claiming Panasonic “left the microswitch business”, not they claim they put an “unexpected end” to the production of switches used in Seimitsu switches. “Unexpected” when the official news of AM5 discontinuation in March 2015 by Panasonic was plastered all over the electronic parts blogs, sites, magazines etc ? Come on! Seimitsu simply hadn’t found yet a suitable replacement and waited till not long ago to publicly release the info, now that they found an agreement with a new company and a new model that according to their testing fits the bill.