anyone here got the new Crown buttons w/ the Cherry Speed Switches in a Obsidian?
Does anybody know if there is a switch chart or something comparing lever switches? The Fujin v3 uses new switches and I wanted to see how the new switches compare to the old am5s
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I bought a bunch of these switches based on their resemblance to AM5s. I haven’t seen them mentioned too much around here so I thought I’d share. They seem like AM5 clones so far because some of the internals are compatible. Lever angle slightly steeper but they’re just as stout as AM5 levers and attached in a similar position on the switch, with AM5 levers being interchangeable. They’re a bit harder than LS-32 switches so they might be good for Korean levers. The feel and the sound is similar.
Photo credit: Otto DIY
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OttoDIY did an interesting clone switch discovery .
Alas it is nothing like panasonic AM5 in terms of actuation, just the case and hinge lever type (and pivot location) seem cloned.
AM5 for seimitsu, 120gf :
- operation force (max) 1.18N (~120gf)
- pretravel (max) 3.2mm
- movement differential (max) 1.0mm
-overtravel (min) 1.4mm
-operation point 15.3 ± 1.0mm
-release force (min) “A” version : 0.20N ( ~20.4g)
MOUJEN (taiwanese brand) MV series, model " MV3003 A" (that’s the reference if you want to buy it)
- operation force (max) “A” version 140gf
- pretravel (max) 4.0mm
- movement differential (max) 1.5mm
-overtravel (min) 1.6mm
-operation point 15.2 ± 1.2mm
-release force (min) “A” version : 20gf
now , how about looking for a (ZILLIONTH) time at omron V series specs?
omron V has hinge lever models at 1.23N (~125gf) . Below that we go into really light territory and just above the 125gf we have 250gf. so no in-between stuff to choose.
the 125gf models from Omron V series are rated :
-operation force max 1.23N (125gf)
-pretravel max 4.0mm
-movement differential max 1.5mm
-overtravel min 1.6mm
-operation point 15.2mm ± 1.2mm
-release force max 0.14N (14.3gf)
Newsflash, the actuation specs for MOUJEN MV3003 “A” 140gf version are , apart from the 15gf operating force difference between both, EXACTLY the same as for an OMRON V hinge lever model at 125gf (V-162-1A5, V-162-3A5, V-162-3C25 , V-162-1C25, V-152-1A5, V-102-1A5, V-152-1A5-T, V-102-1A5-T, V-152-3A5, V-102-3A5, V-152-1C25, V-102-1C25, V-152-1C25-T, V-102-1C25-T, V-152-3C25, V-102-3C25) all omron models are either SPDT or SPSTNO, solder or 0.187 connectors.
Being a clone and having a different body and lever type (panasonic AM5 style) than the omron V, i suspect the moujen specs may not be up to the real life values of an omron V model and may be a bit off.
IF it were truly a perfect copy of an omronV , the slightly stronger actuation force and hinge lever type copied off the pana AM5 would make the MOUJEN actuate a slight bit less deep than the omron V.
All in all I’d say it’s like a STARION SZM (1-1 copy of OMRON V in all aspect, just lower grade) but with a slight unsual twist, the AM5 plastic casing and hinge lever type, plus a little more actuation/operating force (+ 15gf).
It seems korean and chinese modders today are going mad with all these cloned switches, chasing whatever forgotten switch brand supplier they can find just for the sake of finding something original to match their modded joystick or simply hoping desperately to replace discontinued switches such as the panasonic AM5/QV series.
Ok, so these don’t seem to be Panasonic AM5 clones. The specs seem to be copypasted from Omron V, perhaps for marketing purposes but the mechanical drawing paints a different picture:
The 140gf may be erroneous as well because the switch feels just about as hard as a Panasonic AM51610C69N, as in you may want to reach for a bat top.
The MV-3003a also does not feel like Omron switches in use and upon closer inspection, the internals bear little resemblance to Omron V:
Curiously, though obviously Matsushita-inspired, if the Moujen MV series is a clone it is of microswitches of an even earlier vintage than AM5. These appear to be Panasonic AH7(!) clones.
Moujen a clone of AH7??.. I don’t think so.
Moujen mv3003 mimicked the AM5 for the case but then look well at the AH7 , it has a double rivet system for closing the plastic case (not shown on photo) , while the moujen has a case that is not riveted at all, just like the AM5 has no rivet. pivot position is the same though for all three, unlike omron and gersung .
your first guess was more correct comparing visually the moujen with the pana am5. it was spot on.
the photo shows panasonic AM5 (which one? the seimitsu 120gf or the one seen in korean levers at 180gf) and omron V(I guess the 125gf) which are both side COM type, SPST-NO.
All the other ones Gersung A3 (around 180gf min) , panasonic AH7 (undisclosed , I guessclose to 120gf as it was in older seimitsu models as well as older sanwa and who has the harder ones? not in any japanese lever) and moujen MV (140gf) are all SPDT bottom COM type.
So the photo shows switches of different operating forces, with different connector types
Of course SPST-NO will differ visually from SPDT, the contact end of the moving blade of a SPDT moves between two metal contacts (NO and NC) while the SPST-NO moves only between the plastic upper wall and the bottom NO metal contact.
So even if you take two switches from the same brand, same product series, same exact ratings but different connector type, for example you’ll get a different sound feedback if you pay attention, since as described above , the spst-no has its plastic case hit on reset while the spdt has its upper metal contact struck.
You say the moujen “sounds” like an AH7 but of course they’re both SPDT while your am5 is a spstno.
AH7 is the line that was discontinued by panasonic (when they were still called matsushita) so they could replace it with the AM5 .
Notice the SPDT internal contacts on AH7 : they’re very wide and have absolutely nothing in common with the much narrower moujen MV contacts which have more in common with omron and gersung style contacts, even if it’s not the exact same shape (moujen contact is really flat).
the leaf springs shape and how much they are arched should not be a basis for comparing since they don’t have the same force to start with.
the internal contacts shape, alloy, position and spacing play a great deal in actuation characteristics, so since the moujen has radically different contacts compared to panasonic AH7 and AM5, I’ll stand by what I said before that the moujen case and hinge lever copy the AM5 closely but the mech inside is just a sloppy omron clone for the most part with a couple details taken from panasonic and other lesser known brands , but the important part which is moujen’s contact type and spacing is largely inspired by omron and a lot less from
panasonic.
Yooo i want to buy a set of am5 c6, if anyone sells it, you can send me a message (I’m on the korean discord too)
Try the Trading outlet
Okay thanks, i’ll check this!
What’s the difference between the am5 in the Seimitsus and the am5 in Korean joysticks?
I’ve looked on Panasonic’s data sheet, there’s no mention of the switches found in Korean sticks
My bad if I’ve already asked this question in 2017
Tension is the key difference. The Panasonic AM5 microswitches used in the Korean joysticks are 180gf, whereas the switches in the Seimitsu are 120 grams. The harder Korean style switches are rare but I can mod the Seimitsu type switches with a harder spring to work well with Korean joysticks. PM me for details.
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For starters, your youtube “review” links to an EBAY selling page where you advertise the moujen in question as supposed “clones” of the sought AM5 rated at 180gf found in K-levers which are pictured next to the moujen since their external appearance (mechanism excluded then) is indeed the same as per the hinge width and pivot location as well as the case’s shape. The problem is the moujen are NOT Am5 180gf clones just because they mimick the outside, they’re weaker, the contacts are different, the alloy and platings seem to differ as well and despite your claims on the subject even your own video shows they don’t sound the same .
Also, no disrespect but your “test” is as imprecise and empirical that can be, just holding with one hand what seems to be a crown joystick with 4 different switches (which don’t even have the same rating) mounted in for the purpose of your demonstration , pushing the actuator with your thumb.
The switches are not even connected to check at which depth they make contact and how they reset, and you’re not using any micrometric gauge or measuring instrument to see what the actuation point is, you’re just pushing it with your thumb which is in no way a valid test but just a way to check what feel you can get out of them.
AM51662C5N and AM59074N are switches used by seimitsu namely in ls32 , while the 2 Moujen V used ( A-standard force (140gf) and B-light force) have each different operation forces relative to each other and even compared to the panasonics use by seimitsu. you’re comparing apples with oranges.
Maybe you should re-read this post Korean arcade parts discussion
The real selling point is the case and hinge design, other than that the springs are rated differently and from the sound the switches make it’s clear there’s also a difference in actuation forces and at least concerning the plastics used . big switch brands offer thermoplastic vs thermoset plastic cases for example.
It’s interesting to see you want to speak about facts but refuse to understand that just by visual inspection the moujen contact points differ radically fom both the AH7 (which you claimed were the same) and the AM5, the two latter panasonics having domed and large contact points whereas those of the moujen are very similar to the gersung in that they are cylindrical and contact surface seems very flat , with nothing prodtruding beneath the connector . even the overall plating isn’t the same between moujen an panasonic, it’s blatant. . the alloy of the contacts, their geometry and the space between them are very important.
Calling out OttoDiy and his supposed or real recommendations doesn’t make it what you say it is , and like everyone, his choices are sometimes based on personal appreciations, like the use of machined teflon for sliding pivot parts which may not be the best choice compared to previous versions of his, as well as the absence of grooves in said pivot socket.
I see you’re selling them for 18 USD or 4.5 USD per switch (WITHOUT shipping included, ouch! ) , that’s a lot for a second hand old production chinese switch that is advertised by you as being a perfect AM5***6 clone when it only mimics the case and hinge.
one of your selling points is spot on though, the fact that you can swap parts with omron , panasonic (and plethora of other switches using similar mech when the parts are compatible, which they systematically aren’t), but man, considering the buyer will need to pay some shipping (substantial for overseas probably something between 20-40bucks extra) it really isn’t worth it.
Buying 120gf “seimitsu” panasonic A/C5 switches for the sake of experimenting costs much less per unit and you can still find them on arcade parts webshops, and at least people know panasonic is reliable. moujen is just an obscure brand that could oly interest people who want absolutely to have something different/original/unheard of.
Maybe it would be best for those interested to experiment, to source them on wholesale sites.
you should have simply posted your ebay link in the SRK trading outlet imho.
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@Wazwuz updated the Arcade Stick Indonesia page to indicate he is taking preorders again for complete Golden Levers … I’m really tempted to snag one, but on something like that; I’m kinda expecting to be bodied heavily by import fees.
I have one with a bunch of extras and maybe an hour playtime id sell you
let me see what the SO says first.
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Has anyone tried switching to Omron V152-1A5/6 from the Gersung A3’s that come in the Crown sticks?
On Arcade Stick Indonesia page, the Omron V152-1A5 are described as ‘Medium’ and the 6 as ‘Hard’. Are Gersung A3’s considered ‘Soft’ in comparison?
I’m asking in concern to 309MJ. I recently switched to it from JLF and it’s my first K-Stick and I love it so far. Just curious on how I can improve it. I also wanted to try a Golden Crown Silicone Clear 35A(ShinEtsu) grommet but he seems to be out of stock.
Hey all, got a question for any switch gurus out there.
I have some older Gersung A2 switches that I got years ago. Most likely they came with my Myounshin/Air bag levers. Anyway these are my favorite switches.
Does anyone know if this switch has changed over time or if there are known bad batches?
I’ve attempted purchasing backup/replacement switches, but they do not feel the same as mine. The newer ones I’ve purchased have a much lower activation and I feel are not usable. The replacements I purchased came from Focus Attack and another shop that I can’t recall now.
I recently played on my buddies Ettoki, his came with a Taeyoung lever equipped with A2’s that feel like my old ones.
Thought this was strange and figured I’d ask.
asked this in the general Q&A thread, but I’ve not gotten an answer in it.
Anyone know what revision the Myoungshins that FA sells are? I know Myoungshin recently did an revision to their Fantas that makes them a little more harder to mount in Japanese cases unless you have something like either a Kowal plate or a Crown 309 plate. If they’re confirmed selling the new versions, looks like I’ll be placing a order with ETokki for a Taeyoung Fanta unless they’re confirmed that a 309 plate will fit.
Does anyone know where I can wholesale order Korean levers?
Ordered the Fujin v3 and Kaze which both came today. The Fujin now comes with Gersung GSM-V1623A3 switches.
I noticed the Kaze came with GSM-V1623A3KZ switches which I’ve never seen before. I ordered an extra set of these as well (they were like $1.50 more than the standard A3s). Haven’t used them yet, but they seem a bit snappier than the standard A3s. The activation points and tension are even across all 4 so better quality as well - which is something I’ve rarely seen with Gersung switches.
Just curious if anyone’s used them before and what their thoughts were.
