KOF XI Thread :: Ver 2.0

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
861

#1- That question is very vague…give me a situation in particular for example…this could be due to Quickshift Morphing or other things…tell me when this has happened to you?

If you are talking about BT (Backturn) then that opens up a whole different can of worms that many have yet to perfect.

Sure the combo videos make it look easy but theres more than meets the eye like hitboxes on Chris in 2k2/NeoWave that make it land on Backturn. the fatter the opponent the easier it is to cross them up and land on backturn.also a Counter hit stun SOMETIMES ends up being soooo long that you have time to get on the opponents back…

#3-In the middle of a combo Use E? not necessarily…if it is a string or if the combo is blocked yes…very possibly…because the E will knockdown and also it will snuff things…something E as a whole is good about…

#2- HH-ing backwards and E is a good strat…you will see it with Ramon and many others…it is to stop you from jumping towards them and retreat and induce the CH or counterhit.

Any other questions?

862

Reffering to question one, Yes I was reffing to BT what are those all about?

863

I agree. Why do Kasumi players always do that? That throw is almost useless. Even at mid screen.

864

Back turn…anytime you get your opponent on his or her back…you do more damage than you normally would…the damage is comparable to counterhit damage…

Now its easier said than done…and even experts can’t totally master it in 2d games (its easier in 3d games IM)0you see it in combo videos…

Example- 2k2/NeoWave- Ryo jumps vs. regula Chris and crosses him up with D, is on the back and continues the combo…the damage increase is very significant and contributes to the loss of health…

BT exists in almost anygame…

And the damage increase is significant…

Check Tekken…there are throws specifically designed to capitalize on being on someones back…and there are wakeup Bt setups in Tekken so the opponent is on their back…and in Tekken and 95) of game you cannot block on your back…

However let me give you a little secret…

In KOF depending you CAN block on your back…with certain characters do a D/Kick throw and watch the opponent wake up Backturned…they can still guard after that…but try and do a ambiguous crossup after that throw to mix them up…

In other games throws(Tekken etc) that make the opponent wakeup BT they cannot block while on their back…and the damage once again is significant…Creating vicious combos of death…

865

Wow theres a lot more in this game than I had though XD. Time to bust out practice mode. I can’t wait till I get my arcade stick all modded because I’m hyped to kick some @$$.

This brings in throwing with cross ups… now that will be mind boggling to get use to at first…

866

Well firstly it was a combo video so they might as well have done her most damaging combo, I mean jesus, they didn’t even do the most damaging midscreen variant.

As for the kasumi stuff, I play kasumi a fair bit and the reason to do the throw is because you need the damage, she doesn’t have enough mixup that you can sacrifice an opportunity to do damage. But if you really want to keep them in the corner you can just do the combo up to the C fireball and then not finish with the throw, and voila! still in the corner and knocked own to boot, which you won’t get if you do say, jumping d or the more damaging standing d.

867

As I discussed earlier…its mainly for show with Kasumi…

They totally throw away their wakeup game inputting the command grab post sweep in the corner…

As I say…its mainly for show…in tournies I would NOT use it…

But then again do you ever see Kasumi used IN TOURNIES?? nope…only casuals…FOR SHOW.

Right??

868

DG will you ever get msn?

869

Nope…I’m about to sign up for it right now though as I am analyzing all the SBO vids here at a CPU…I’ll give you what my screenname is.

My apologies…I know many are wanting to talk to me on AIM…but I have been trying to recover from financial problems and until about 3 weeks its gonna be difficult for me to have instant access to AIM/MSN all the time…because I do not have internet at my house until that timeframe and at the University/my workplace only certain CPUS allow me to put AIM/MSN on them…so I am at one CPU right now watching the match vids and printing up what I see…

then I will go to another one after I workout and try to get online to talk to K4 and you etc…

870

Are you watching those on Youtube DG? or did you buy the DVDs?

871

I am watchnig youtube and editing my comments on NGBC and XI right now…

K4 scratch that old screen name I gave you…I just created a new one for AIM that I will use for gaming talk only…

THEDarkGeese

872

Went on a 16 game streak today with Gai/Adel(L)/Tizoc. Then on a 12 game one with Jazu/Jenet/Maxima. Wheee Gai is too fun ^^ Dodge into Slide or flipping overhead FTW.

873

ArcadeFire:
The throw is alright at midscreen, since it throws them a ways towards the corner and it’s not like Kasumi’s mixup is super hardcore so you might as well take the damage.

KabukiMono:
The reason to not throw them out of the corner is because if you land a mixup in the corner you can QS into a big corner combo with somebody else. Doesn’t even have to be a big hit, just anything that connects that can QS to someone else.

evilmuffinmanx:
Actually Oswald may do a bunch off QS combos and stun combos and stuff, but he isn’t exactly doing 50% off an anti-air jab unless he’s leader (well, or if you’re quick and do an unblockable on them into Ace =/ ). Being a leader opens up a LOT of possibilities for Oswald. I actually start Oswald a lot to set the pace of the match early on (kinda like starting Eiji) and there are plenty of times when I wish I had the LDM to make even basic pokes and stuff hurt.
In terms of who “needs” the LDM more, I really don’t think Gato needs his LDM like Oswald does. In fact, out of KGO, Oswald benefits most from having the LDM and Gato probably “needs” it the least out of all of them, yet everybody and their mom is playing leader Gato.

There’s probably a lot of reasons why Gato is a more popular leader these days… my own reasoning for finally settling on Gato as my leader for real matches:

  • it’s just a lot easier to land Gato’s LDM. Face it, you WILL make contact with c.B, close C, c.C, hop B, hop D, etc. at some point in the match. That’s really all it takes, too. Very comboable and the whole guardcrush thing just makes it that much easier to bring into play.
  • the payoff is really big. The last hit after a guardcrush does more than some character’s combos do. Hitting the full thing in a combo is just ridiculous in terms of the damage it does, given how simple those combos are (c.B, close C XX DP+Ex3 is like 70%).
  • easy to fit into pretty much any random combo you might be doing, provided you have the meter/skill available to do it. That’s 70% off of like everything.

Plus it gives Gato a much scarier wakeup super ;( and it does all its damage really really quickly, which can be a plus when mounting a comeback from a judgement deficit.

874

SBO vid/combo vid comments…

First thing, Cordorroy, watch the combo vid AF posted…you will see Terry crossup Hotaru…
see the combo he does no Hotaru on her back? My bet is that that combo is bt-only…meaning only on the back…or mainly possible on an opponents back…and he gets it from a crossup as I noted.

About seeing how the Japs play yes they are super super sharp…one thing I noticed though that I already do that doesnt impress me is about what I read about the knowledge of their skill stocks…

When I teach people this game that is how I teach them…to WATCH THEIR SKILL STOCKS…just how they do it is how I do it…I never just let my character die liek that…I am always aware of whether I can QS or not…and sometimes I intentionally do just as they do just to tag my character out…

If you think I’m bsing ask some people like E-bortion that I have taught this game to…that is how I teach it…knowing your stocks and RARELY if ever tagging out empty…mainly only tagging in ONLY after a blocked string that is QS-able or a move that is QS-able…

watching that energy and skill stock…first thing I wondered as I got into this game was why the hell were people just letting their characters die?

Didnt make much sense to me and seemed very old school…

So I started watching my skill stocks how they do and studied the QS chart…that way I know how I can tag out and go for it 9 times out of ten to prolong the match.

Sorry K4 I got sooo caught up intracantly dissecting those SBO vids (still am) that I didnt even get to get online.

I agree with CrimsonDisaster…after watching those vids it became obvious to me why to use Gato as Leader…

I’ve only watched one full Part I part of the KOF, but what impresses me so far-

#1 How sharp they are…
#2-Their knowledge of practically every intracate matchup in the game…
#3-Their extensive knowledge of old school tricks that come out in the game…like using st. b/cr.b poke with Kula A LOT and HH E…something I see amateur Kulas do NOT do enough.all they do is spam HH C…a sign of a amateur Kula…

Like I said before, IMO that is what the skill stocks are for…not just the flashy combos…so the knowledge of when t tag out does not impress me the slightest…matter of fact it makes me wonder wtf people are doing today still in match vids if they just let their characters die.

I remember watching that at TS6 and in plenty match vids asking to myself “WTF? Do these guys NOT formulate a way to tag out and be safe?”

Hell I don’t play Marvel and I KNOW that they use the Manual go from one character t another character super thing DHC JUST TO TAG OUT AND BE SAFE…

Ex…Magneto goes from Tempest and Storm comes in with Her super…

So I just applied that to XI…and to me I thought it would be common sense…but I rarely see it used…so I guess its not…:wonder:

So when I saw the Japanese use it I was like “ABOUT DAMN TIME SOMEONE DOES THIS SHIT!!!” :wonder:

As I said I try to get in the mind of the person I am watching…I try to figure out why people would let their characters die…

And I came up with

#1-They do not have enough skill stocks 2 Save Shift or Qs
#2-They have not fully gotten the use of Save Shift and Quick Shift…only using it for combos…
#3-They are old school…meaning they let their character die…
#4-They do not think their character is using worth SS or QS with…

Thats all I could come up with because I think it is just common sense and even when I post my casuals you will see me doing it and people who I play with…that is how I teach them to play the game…watch your health and arund 50% start planning how you are gonna safely tag that character out…and blocked combos are great because they at least have one QS point…and especially if you are keen and see them blocking low…I can get a free tag in QS overhead Athena 50-60% LDM combo because I was watching my health and you are blocking low or just rushing me trying to kill my character.

875

Wow thats a good point DG I guess I need to learn when my characters can QS and be safe…

Are there certain moves that when blocked that let you qs safely or that cancel into qs?

876

There is a QS chart out there at gamefaqs.com

I used the QS faq from the beginning and began coming up with my strategies around it…from the BEGINNING…

So I can make sure 95% of the time I get a successful tag out…

Watching people in person or whatever that play old school let my character die seems amateurish to me…I don’t get it…

:wonder:

877

the same noticed by me long time ago…in almost every vid i see (i think i have the entire collection of XI vids until now and i watched all of them carefully) they let their charas die without trying to save one of them as in old school kof

remember that a semidead chara is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay useful than a dead one even if he give you an additional stock to use…you don’t need it 'cause if you have the chance and skill stocks you can land nice stun combos (almost one stun combo for any team configuration i’ve noticed)

then the trick to save a char before death comes in…just throw a poke on an opponent mistake and don’t care if it hit or not but QS out!!!

so you save your chara and put your oppo under one of your mixup
some examples…

do not hit anithing during the qs just land and do a crB combo
the same as above but land an overhead if they block low
try to throw or use some moves that are startup invincible (clark’s dpD can do wonders)

and the nicest part is here…heard about that BT discussion pages before?
if you analize your chara’s moveset you can see that some moves on some characters tagged out on guard or not qsed out for some specific charas make the incoming land (if he not hit any button during the jumpin) on opponen’ts back open to a combo!!!

quick example…do ash’s qcf*2K DM then QS for kim and keep the stick in low direction…you will see kim appearing on the back of your opponent

the same work on gato’s palm DM on block qs out for oswald and he’ll land on the opponent’s back

if you’re smart enough you can find some other uses…the one i prefer is the fact that a BTed opponent is more near to you during a combo so you can do some corner combos in midscreen…

just practice your stuff 'till death

i hope this post can be useful :smiley:

878

havent really experimented with this concept so ill ask yall about it…can you do a 3 man switch on combos??? For example lets say i have k’ iori’ and kyo. Can i start the combo with k’ and have kyo finish it?? Or can i have k’ start the combo and cycle through iori and kyo then on kyo can i switch k’ back in???

879

yes try this:

K’: air C closeC (1hit) fwdB QS
iori: air C close C qcbA qcbA QS
kyo: air D closeC fwdB qcfC qcbC fwdC dpC

an easy 3 man combo :wink:

880

I see QS will put me more to an advantage than… I just need to master it.