Thanks, BTW can I quote your Tier list at another forum plz?
Yes, it’s for everyone.
Anyway, here are some new matches that Lecter, the guy who organizes the majority of the tournaments in Mexico, sent me. He’s going to send me a lot of his videos later.
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[media=youtube]tj1oq26Makg[/media]
well, I’m an ‘anti-kof’. I just post this shit because they are my friends, and I also want to know if they are that good to be so self-confident.
btw, what’s that Athena backdash glitch?
During backdash, hit d+B to go further.
oh, I thought it was something spectacular, it’s just like Iori’s.
It’s not something that can be used as a noob-meter
It’s an important part of her game, far more than it is for Iori. I’ve never seen anyone in any match video not use it until now.
if you don’t need to use it you don’t use it…
it’s simple…
i didn’t saw those vids but certainly someone can’t be called noob if don’t use the backdash bug
Nobody called anyone a noob.
It would have obviously helped his game, since he was playing keepawaywith Athena, but struggling to backdash away.
listen to me,
trust only arcadia/japanese tier lists those are the most reliable due to jap player’s experience and knowledge…
that tier list is crap
So I was messin’ with Vanessa and she is officially replacing Chris-
Cr. C–>A Dash Upper–>F, D, DF+CxxQCFx2+P is TOO GOOD
I’m new to KOF. I’ve messed up with NW and some older KOFs but I kinda like 2002 so I might just take a shot at learning it. I was wondering about a couple of pointers?
- Angel’s going to be my definite main. Am I right to assume she doesn’t really use meter for anything (I’ve only watched a few of matches so far). Good leader character?
And just out of curiosity:
I saw her doing some infinite too. Not that it’s really important but how is a character with at least seemingly-easy-to-access infinite ranked low-mid tier (like it says in the wiki)? :wonder:
-
Can I make a good team around Angel with Vanessa and Kim or Mary. I saw some vids with Vanessa at lead although the wiki suggests against it. Is the wiki out-dated or something?
-
Some basics for Mary would be nice. Her wiki-info doesn’t exist and I’m kinda confuced about how I should be playing her anyway? I haven’t seen a single mary match yet. Then again I haven’t really looked for them specifically yet.
Some written info would be nice nonetheless.
Thank you. And sorry if this kind of thing comes up often.
Tier lists are based on results from tournaments. Mexico can hang with Japan. In fact, the best Mexicans will probably beat most Japanese players. Mexico’s tier list isn’t really any less valid than Japan’s.
The only reason you could say Brazil’s tierlist isn’t that good is because they don’t seem to be on the same level as the Mexico/Japan. But, this is only based on my 5 or so matches watched, and there was one really good Angel player in Brazil.
Her supers are free…you can actually do a crouch A right after a blocked super and the opponent will be in block stun. Also, she will probablly need stock for CD countering, because she doesn’t do THAT well under pressure, she is better at rushing down (thus cd counters are good for regaining momentum).
The tier list in the wiki isn’t really that correct. Japan doesn’t use her much, but the best Japanese Angel players are nothing compared to the mexican ones.
Her infinite is not easy to do, it just looks easy because it seems to be the same move done over and over.
I don’t know about Mary being good, I’d probably take Kim over her. As for Vanessa…she has 2-3 stock combos that do 100% damage, but she can also get stock pretty fast…depends.
oh please not again this crap
tournament results are CONSEQUENCES not reasons for a character tier placement
i’ve already discussed this, 'cause in tourny there are TONS of factors to be considered and yes if any player is heavily strong than the others with low tier characters this don’t mean that those character are good
but player is
that’s it, really easy to understand…i can’t figure how a tier list can be drawn after a tournament…
btw tier lists as they are, are not so useful…in understanding a game balancement the most important thing is the matchups chart
that is really reliable on
but this is another story
if you manage to beat athena with seth
this CAN’T mean that seth is stronger than athena…this mean that the player who picked seth was stronger than the other.
stop no more crap
also, tier placement depends also on things like mixups/damage/stock building ability/sinergy/difficulty to master
for example angel or may lee can’t be tops in a serious chart 'cause the skill required for those players who pick them have to be A LOT more than the one required to master billy or choi
and then again, in a vs match it’s easier to make mistakes with difficult charas as angel and maylee than with choi
don’t understimate japanese players only 'cause ONCE a mexican/burundi/korean/italian player won A match against them
they ‘invented’ videogames…they live for videogames…it’s a total different culture/habit
and jap players are the uncontrastable strongest…they have experience and knowledge…
a friend of mine that were in jap during loke test for kof2k2 said that they already did tons of bc combos and the game wasn’t out
so, excuse me if i trust only experienced players…
tell some other ppls on this board how strong are jap players…someone once told me that they were thinking that the level was close…but they only got their ass raped
and pls is obvious that there are inexpert/scrubby/noob players among japanese guys that you can beat…but overall they’re STRONGER
that’s it
you talked about mexican…if i remember correctly the mex champ is khannibal (wich is also a good online friend of mine) but sorry, i think that he’s no match for a tougeki
do you know bruno vaysse?
he was the strongest in all europe…he raped everyone at european SBO qualifiers for neowave and everyone had bet that him should have gone far in the tourny
you know how he lost in japan?
40-0 (by kyabetsu if i remember good)
he didn’t won once then left playing
just search for some vids of him…he was a machine
It doesn’t work this way. Besides, I could easily justify, on the basis of how good the character is, why Angel and May Lee should be top tier. In fact, with this you can justify why O Shermie and Seth should be atleast mid-tier. The truth is, they are based on the results (whether it is tournaments, or just matchup charts as posted previously). Your way of judging tiers is too subjective.
Not really. Assuming Seth can trap athena, he can mix her up far better than she can mix him up. Seth vs. Athena is not a hopeless match, especially with two expert players of equal skill.
Which are subjective, and only useful in games where there are very limited possibilities (and thus due to lack of options, which character is the best is much more obvious to decide).
But the skill required is irrelevant in high level play. Assuming the majority of the players are really good, this factor is totally thrown out.
When you are an expert, making mistakes with difficult characters is not an issue.
Nowhere did I mention anything about a mexican (or anyone else) beating a japanese player.
Who said the others are not as experienced? Some people can have a lot of experience but have less skill.
Wtf? Dude, I have thousands of match videos with Japanese players, you don’t have to tell me anything.
Not true. Give me a video of one player who you think can take down Abraham and Esteban.
THe Japanese players get raped by Korea in kof2001 tournaments multiple times. The Chinese are better than the Japanese in kof98.
Who is tougeki? Give me a video.
Khannibal is not the mexican champ anymore, it was Abraham (and it probably switched again to someone else, not sure who).
Is 2002 played more then 2003 in the US?
You could say that. I don’t know anywhere outside of Cali( and/or NY?) and Texas that still plays 2k2, but XI killed off 2k3 as far as I know.
Vanny is better off second or last because she needs the meter for supers and more importantly the max mode.
I guess that team’s not too bad, Kim has good stuff like qcb+k, the qcb+C rekka kens, pokes and rushdown etc. If you’re going to be a dedicated Angel player, you’ve got to put a lot of time into it, as she is one of the most complex characters IMO
Truth be told I’ve been playing more '98 than 2002 lately, so I can’t really answer the Mary question and other parts. Emil posted some Angel stuff earlier so I suppose he can answer your other questions.
i repeat myself again,
tournaments are plenty of other factor
nerves, luck and so on…you can’t judge a tier with those parameters
a non subjective judgement can be done of:
priority
amount of mixup
effectiveness of those mixup
trap ability
difficulty to master
once a tier is placed tournament will confirm his position
you used the word ‘assuming’ in fact i’ve already considered ‘mixup effectiveness’ and 'trap ability’
surely seth’s is strong but once you do a matchup chart between the two athena’s keepaway is far stronger than seth’s trapping
plus the fact that seth isn’t really a stockbuilder character and athena is a bitch always ready to shining crystal bit you or CD blown
this isn’t subjective,
it’s related on the character you pick
who is easier to master?choi that require you only to learn some poke poke combos or angel that for being strong needs tons of chains?
whose crossup is stronger?choi’s that do his job even if you don’t want or angel’s that require some placement even if it is a crossup only attack?
you didn’t get the point.
even at high levels a missed angel qcfA ‘hand over your head throw’ can cost you the entire round…and this can be appliable to other circumstances/moves…
from this pow distance between tiers can be greater
but i also said that in tourny there are luck and ability
an angel player can be beastly and never miss any string…but this won’t change the fact that angel can suffer an higher percentage of errors due to the amount of her strings…while choi still spam safe far standind As or athena throw no recovery fireballs
yes but don’t change the fact that you’re more incline to do mistakes than spamming fwdA’s and reversals
that was just an example 'cause someone can read of a victory over a jap player and misunderstand facts
yes, but still no match for japanese
watching a video can be a so so
i invited you to ask to who challenged jap players and experienced on his skin their ability
there are a lot of guys on this forum who challenged RF
just send abraham or esteban to tougeki and let’s see how far they can go
i don’t care about 2001 and lack knowledge…
but this year kof98 will be at tougeki…let’s see how far chinese guys will go (if some of them are able to qualify to the tourny)
tougeki is the most important tournament in japan, also called SBO (super battle opera)
kof2002 was played there in 2003
kof98 will be played this year
last year was for XI and the previous was neowave
just search around in orochinagi there are some vids
yes, 'cause khani is not playing a lot anymore due to his job…
but even in his prime he wasn’t match for japs.
and trust me, i have a very high consideration of his strenght…he’s surely a very strong and experienced player
don’t stuck yourself at this…
vanny is a great stock builder and a pressing machine…
on first match also your opponent don’t have stocks…and vanessa can do wonders while pressing and can’t be blown away by CDs
2 stocks are not that difficult to build in a round if you manage to press you opponent well and alternate whiffed hellions…don’t limit your gameplay with her only to the BC combos…even because at high levels aren’t that easy to land…she have a great mixup variety…but everything is left to your fantasy and ability don’t be predictable
You can’t objectively use your criteria. You cannot measure these in an objective way. I’d like to see how you do it.
Why are you using a matchup chart now?
This “measure” only applies to beginners. In high level play, the difficult is irrelevant.
Then don’t use qcf+A.
Athenas usually get owned in Mexico, by Angels…but wait, those guys suck right? It’s not concievably possible for Athena to lose to Angels…
A video is better than nothing. Give me a player that can beat Abraham or Esteban. I already know enough about RF. He’s good, but I know mexicans that are better than him.
Haha, ok so it was SBO. I’ve seen everything from SBO.