Dr. Manhattan IS Superman. Specifically, the Quantum Superman of Earth 4.
I mean, he isn’t… but you know who it’s supposed to be.
I recall Grant tried to get the DC characters, but DC said no. Hence why Owl Man is so similar to Batman, and Dr M is so similar to Captain Atom (or certain versions of Superman).
And it’s not like people in Marvel can’t do that. Sure, JLA is strong as fuck and would win most battles against Marvel characters, but Green Lantern lost to The Silver Surfer. That actually seemed quite legit. Half the Marvel vs Superman battles come down to “can the Marvel guy use magic”?
Grant had nothing to do with Watchmen.
The early idea, which didn’t survive beyond the pitch stage, was to use Charlton Comics characters, but they quickly realized that it would be much better to use original characters that fulfilled the basic superhero archetypes. This was before the project ever started, mind you. There never was any plan to use DC Universe characters.
I actually really like the suit, I think it was high time they got rid of those trunks. Funny enough, I think the suit actually looks better in the production shots we’ve seen than in any of the new 52 stuff I’ve checked out. Mad hyped for that trailer tomorrow though, already saw the leaked version but can’t wait to actually see it in HD on a big screen.
Man DC better not muck this up(again), so far they’ve made all the right moves imo, but it looked like they made all the right moves with GL and look how that turned out. Least with snyder directing we know were gonna have some good action, something the BS superman movie was sorely lacking. And thank God for no lex luthor, dude is such a bad archnemesis for superman, they should really be considering brainiac for the sequel(if this is successful), I personally think he makes a more compelling villain for superman, plus there’s the emotional investment since brainiac was responsible for the destruction of his planet and all.
Luthor is the perfect enemy to Superman, provided that the writers play to his strengths. You can’t threaten Superman in a fistfight, so there has to be something else there–a component that threatens him emotionally and through his sense of morality. That’s what the brilliant, amoral and cruel Luthor brings to the table.
He plays the same role to Superman as the Joker plays to Batman. It’s not really relevant whether or not he’s a physical match. He has to be the opposite of everything that the hero hopes to preserve.
Also, not to split hairs, but Brainiac was only on Krypton in the cartoon series. That’s not to downplay the idea, because it’s a really fucking good idea. But they would have to adapt that version of the character specifically.
The cartoon is the only thing that has done a good job of portraying Luthor. With the movies it was always some BS real estate scam. I haven’t seen enough Smallville to comment on that version.
The cartoon did a decent job, mainly following the lead of the comics at the time. In fact, the dastardly legitimate businessman Luthor was one of the better ideas that shook out of the mixed bag of the late '80s/early '90s Superman comics.
The first movie with Christopher Reeve did a decent job with Luthor, though Gene Hackman played him as more charismatic and affably evil than the outright cruel, vicious portrayal in other versions. Compare Gus Fring of season 3 to Gus Fring of season 4. Movie Luthor is season 3 Gus… or maybe Hans Gruber before you see him cap a dude like it’s nothing.
All Star Superman’s Luthor was terrific. The brilliant thing is that it doesn’t do anything with Luthor that hasn’t been done before. It just takes all the good elements of all the previous Luthors and synthesizes them into pretty damn near an ideal version of the character.
Despite my general dislike of Smallville, they did a good job with Luthor and Michael Rosenbaum was great in the role. One of the few saving graces of an otherwise teenage cheese festival.
EDIT:
If you want to keep score…
Superman: The Movie - Luthor’s scheme did indeed involve buying up lots of worthless land and raising the value by blowing up the state of California.
Superman II - Luthor attempted to ally himself with the escaped Kryptonian prisoners.
Superman III - The villain here is a Luthor expy: a mega-rich tycoon (years before Byrne’s reboot!) who tries to use technology to kill Superman and rule the world.
Superman IV - Luthor hijacks nuclear weapons in a bid to keep the Cold War alive.
Superman Returns - Yeah, Luthor’s scheme here is pretty similar to his scheme in the first movie.
What did you think of the Luthor portrayed in the Azzarello/Bermejo Luthor: Man of Steel miniseries?
that being said, sometimes you really DO want to see Superman in a fist fight. It’s like Hulk, you know he will win, but HOW? So many tools to use.
I mean, look at the fight he had with Darkseid:
[media=youtube]JLGRkYYmJgQ[/media]
He is pummeling him while flying around him at hurricane producing speeds, and lifting up HUGE chunks of earth and throwing it or flipping it. Or using laser vision and cold breath in fights.
And for me, perfect enemy is Brainiac. The back history of being responsible for fucking up Krypton in the past, and the fact Superman technically can engage in a fist fight with him, and his robots/minions.
Luthor as written by Azzarello and Bermejo is interesting in that you get an idea of what things are like from his point of view, but to be totally honest, I can’t quite cotton to interpretations of Luthor as a self-styled altruist who honestly believes Superman to be a threat to humankind. It doesn’t quite achieve the amoral, cunning aspects of the Luthor character. On some level, even if it’s a subtle one, he has to be aware of what he really is. That’s what’s really villainous about him: he knows himself and it doesn’t stop him.
Superman/Batman: Apocalypse was ass.
Interesting. I’ll have to reread the comic. I had the impression that Luthor was deluding himself, but that deep down he was aware of his own villainy, that the bottom line was he just hated Superman and all the human altruism was just a smokescreen. That scene at the end when Superman says, “You’re wrong. I can see your soul,” and Luthor just furiously pounds the window - I guess I always took that to show that Luthor was pissed that Superman really knew that deep down inside, Luthor wasn’t so much a human altruist as a flat out dick.
As far as seeing Superman in a fist fight, I’d say the stakes have to be pretty high and it has to be executed in a creative fashion. I recently read that Geoff Johns/Gary Frank Brainiac story and I wasn’t impressed. Sure, Superman could really cut loose with his strength, but what was the point?
This reminds me of Kevin Smith’s story about how Jon Peters wanted Superman to fight a giant robot spider in a movie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Peters#Peters_and_Superman
I don’t want to see Superman beating up robots. He’s a better character than that. That’s what made Joe Casey’s Superman so impressive, because his Superman was a pacifist. He used Superman to explore the ideas about violence, and often had Superman solve problems with his mind as opposed to just punching them all into the sun.
And if Superman/Batman: Apocalypse was anything like the Loeb comic… yeah, it’s ass.
I haven’t actually read the Lex Luthor book in a while, so you might be right. It’s probably in my parents’ basement, or wherever it is that comic books end up when you own them and they’re not in your house.
I wouldn’t mind an action-oriented Superman (hell, it was in the name on the cover of his debut), but it has to be done honestly and inventively. No cheating or fudging the requirements of the story for the sake of cheap thrills.
Thank you for clearing that up, I was unaware brainiac was only on krypton in the series, and needless to say from my post you must have already deduced that most of what I know about the DCU is from the DCAU and the movies. With that said, I really don’t see how lex is the perfect enemy for superman, but maybe Im just salty cause superman returns was so damn boring. Pair that with his less than impressive(imo) depiction in the DCAU and I just prefer brainiac and darkside. Particularly since both of them bring out the worst in superman, I’ve never seen supes snap against lex(based on the DCAU, Im sure he has snapped in the comics) but there were times when the blue boy scout in supes went out the window because of how both of them(darkside and brainiac) twist and manipulate clark.
I do agree that a hero’s villain should be his anti-thesis, and maybe my lack of love for lex is based of his boring interpretation in all the movies but I just don’t feel him. Plus there’s also the complete lack of spectacle that using lex luthor creates, it limits what you can have supes doing since lex can’t take a beating from him.
On a separate note, how many of y’all have seen the teaser than was on TDKR? It was pretty cool, I mean it was a tease(there was like only one shot of supes in costume) but it was a nice tease. I do wish they had gone with the comic-con trailer but w/e, I hope warner know what they are doing.
Speaking of superheroes snapping…
Return of the Joker, when Bats starts beating the fuck out of the Joker. That was so epic. I’m a DCAU fan, too. I haven’t watched any of the modern animated flicks, though.
I own a couple, received as gifts. The opening theme of Mask of the Phantasm is one of the best songs/renditions of all time.
There is a JL episode in which Luthor finally drives Superman over the brink. It turns out to be in a parallel universe, but the strong implication is that these heroes are no different from their counterparts in the prime universe, save for the gradual change in their methods that occurs after Superman makes that fateful decision. I thought that was a terrifically handled story.
Yea the justice lord story line was pretty dope, especially when they expanded on it in season 3(or season 1 of JLU depending on how you look at these things) and asked why the world needed super heroes. If DC can adapt something like that for TMOS sequel using lex as the main antagonist Im all for it. But the main issue with lex as an antagonist is the climactic final battle is always, well, anti-climatic. While that might work for a comic book, in a big budget summer movie that is just a bad idea. The “battle” either amounts to superman carrying lex to jail, or supes getting his ass handed to him because of the presence of kryptonite. Anyway, this is a discussion for another day, since we haven’t even seen anything of this movie, much less its sequel.
Heres a poor quality version of the teaser that was on TDKR [media=youtube]ras0b2SOzp8[/media] I really liked it, although I would have preferred if they showed the comic-con trailer.
[media=youtube]mGEuJS98wGo[/media]
Bit my tongue until a clear teaser was out. It doesn’t look like a typical Zack movie because 300, Watchmen and Sucker Punch had the same cinematographer (who also did Hero and Super 8)-- it’s a different DP for MoS. So there should be less ridiculously over- or under- saturated postprocessing, and less static shots. Although Slo-mo is Zack’s baby of course.
So which do y’all prefer? The one with the jor-el voice over or the one with pa kent voice over? Honestly I love em both, they speak to both sides of superman, clark and kal-el. sigh If this movie isn’t awesome, I don’t think my heart can take another disappointment.
Oh and this is the jor-el trailer for any who don’t know
[media=youtube]F-toIu5JscE[/media]
They’re both interesting, and, like Jak D Ripr said, they both say something about the character in different ways. That said, I think I prefer the Jor-El narration, which effectively conveys Superman’s mission. He’s not there to solve everybody’s problems, so much as help them to help themselves. That’s something I think skeptics of the character ought to keep in mind.
Jon Kent’s narration conveys something important, too, but given statements about the themes of this movie, I think it’s a little on-the-nose. It’s appropriate for a trailer; I just hope that it doesn’t signify what the dialogue in the movie will be like. It’s in Jon Kent’s nature to deliver folksy aphorisms, but not when it sounds like the text on the back of a DVD case.
I like the implication that this movie will explore Superman’s reasons for deciding to do what he does, which aren’t quite as cut-and-dried as Batman’s or Spider-Man’s. I just hope they fulfill the potential of that idea.
Here’s the music cue used in the trailer. The selection starts at 4:56.
[media=youtube]Fd33nTCt8NQ[/media]
Howard Shore would have been a marvelous choice for Superman. That they went with Hans Zimmer is a little disheartening.