^ Giant Spider?
Why was this so good and Superman Returns one so bad?
In my view, both films are somewhat middling for different reasons, and I think that as the dust settles and the initial enthusiasm for this one levels off, the contrasts being drawn between the two will be less overstated.
I don’t think Superman Returns was a horrible movie, but it does suffer from split personalities that contradict each other and make for a movie that feels pretty stuck in the mud. This one, if anything, tries to compensate with mayhem constantly boiling over. It ends up being pretty excessive. The characters only have a heart because the actors are fighting tooth and nail to give them one amidst all the special effects.
I think this will sit with me. I never liked Superman returns when I first saw it. The best moments for me besides the action were delving into Clark’s childhood and young adulthood. Henry Canvill not only did great, but also child Clark, and Papa Kent. That backstory shows the root of what created Superman’s character.
The only thing I felt weird about was Clark putting on the costume for the 1st time. It just seemed kind of weird with how it happened. I sort of wanted to see him reject it at first because of how strange it looked and then decide to put it on when he thought it seemed necessary. Would’ve also liked to have seen a bit more of the El’s life on Krypton. When it started basically the planet was already going to shit. The movie could’ve been a bit longer. It just felt longer to me because it had a shit ton of previews before the movie started and the only one worth seeing was
stuff
Spoiler
the 300 sequel
The female henchman was my favorite. Also, as for [details=Spoiler]Clark’s identity, I like how the way they handled it. The old ways like in the comics, cartoons, and old films is so cheesy and unrealistic. Lois knows that Superman and Clark are one in the same. The other people at Daily Planet don’t know because they never saw him. The people from his hometown would definitely know its him as well. I just hope in a sequel they won’t convert it to the cheesy nonsensical secret identity where someone clearly sees him as superman, but once he goes back into his suit and glasses they don’t recognize him.[/details]
One thing people always forget about the comics with regard to his secret identity is that he took certain measures to make people dismiss the similarities between Superman and Clark Kent. Every so often, he’d show up as Clark or Superman with a body double acting as the other identity–Bruce Wayne, an android, one of his many shape-shifting pals, whatever. The old joke is that you never see Clark and Superman in the same room at the same time… but on some occasions, you do.
As for the Krypton sequence,
Spoiler
I agree. I made a general reference in my initial write-up to the way certain parts of the movie feel like they’re being fast-forwarded through, and this is one sequence in particular. It seems like they’re trying to knock out as many story elements in as few scenes as possible. In one fell swoop, we get that Krypton is doomed, we get why Jor-El and Zod have oppositional views, we get the beginning of Zod’s coup, we get the end of Zod’s coup, we get the Phantom Zone imprisonment, and so on, almost in one long scene. This is the kind of contrivance you’d see in ancient Greek theater, back when they tried to make all the action happen in one continuous scene because they hadn’t yet developed the idea of cutting from one time and place to another.
Spoilers obviously:
The scale of the final battle was caught so perfectly I think I actually shed a tear. Honestly I think the second half of the movie saved it
The first half of the movie almost had me falling asleep. Too many points where flashbacks and the like were dragged unnecessarily. The opening scene on Krypton was about 20 minutes too long. The Zod invasion onwards was close to perfect for me
I’m still waiting for a movie to show a sun amped supes with a OP power boast like in the comics…would be nice to see some PC supes feats on screen.
I agree with some of his points.
[details=Spoiler]particularly about his lack of attempts to save civilians or protect them. He doesn’t seem too distraught about all the damage and seeming loss of life as it’s happening either. Him not caring about that gas station fire while he was just standing near it was really glaring to me. It just all seemed rather out of place after all the flashbacks of him going out of his way to save people.
The tension in the fights could have been even higher if he was trying to save people around fighting the villains.
Maybe this was standing out because I had just watched Superman vs the Elite the other day and he moves heaven and earth in that movie to make sure people are safe. I dunno.
I don’t have a problem with the Zod death because he earned it and Supes’ reaction to it was appropriate.[/details]
I still liked it, though and thought the superhuman fighting and action scenes were phenomenal.
Just saw it.
8/10
I agree with Goody in that the supporting chars were thinly characterized, and a lot of the tension of Lois/Clark relationship seems flat.
I liked the flashbacks esp Pa Kent/Costner, and of course the various fights.
IMO I think Chris Melon (col. Hardy) should have been saved for a turn as Luthor, but c’est la vie.
You now Superman is from the heartland b/c he eats at IHOP and buys his tools at Sears :wgrin:
I had to stay out of this thread until I saw it to avoid spoilers and now that I have, I have to echo a lot of the sentiments you guys have.
BTW, nice catch on Guardian, guys. It didn’t even register for me until I realized his last name and his military codename, lol.
Plot/Character Spoilers AHOY:
[details=Spoiler]I felt that Cavill played his role almost flawlessly. I am so glad that this movie decided to show, rather than tell… until it was pointed out in this thread, I had barely noticed Supes lack of dialogue, because Cavill’s body language and facial expressions were spot-on. His interactions with the rest of the cast, particularly his moments with Pa Kent and Jor-El, were nearly perfect. Dude was also appropriately jacked, which is important for this type of role. I liked him as Superman and feel he was definitely one of the best parts of the film.
The REAL best part of the film was Kevin Costner as Pa Kent. The man is amazing in his role and you really believe that he is where Superman gets his humanity from. Needs a nomination for something for sure, Hollywood.
I liked Amy Adams as Lois Lane, and wish she had a bit more to work with in the script. Maybe an extended scene of her with Ma Kent or something. I really like that she was written as a competent investigative reporter and was able to track down Clark’s true identity. She really got cheated by the film’s “hurry up and get to the Kryptonian super-fights” pace.
Speaking of Clark’s identity being revealed so easily- I know certain elements of Superman’s fandom will complain about it, but I thought it was handled well. Having Lois not be a moron who couldn’t figure it out after all that investigative journalism would have gotten eye-rolls from me at that point.
The moments with Pete Ross, especially the IHOP scene kinda gave off the same vibe that the train scene in Spider-Man 2 did where you just know Pete will go to his grave protecting Clark’s secret.
I especially like that it was inferred that the U.S. Government was keeping Clark’s identity under wraps from the citizens in the ending scenes.
The final battle was appropriately epic, and its finale perfectly completes the arc of Clark finding his place as well as what lengths Zod will go to in order to defeat his enemies. With his final act, Zod forces Superman to make the choice between his adopted home and his birthplace, leaving his mark on Clark to dwell on in the aftermath. Truly the mark of a great villain.[/details]
FINAL VERDICT: A great comic book film that I wish had more runtime to flesh out some of the narrative. Henry Cavill is a great Superman and I’m really interested to see where they take this franchise in the future. Kevin Costner needs to appear in more childhood flashbacks in the sequel…
Also, the sequel should be called THE MAN OF TOMORROW and feature a Lex Luthor who is pissed off at how an alien simultaneously wrecked AND captured the hearts and minds of the city he built, lol.
Costner and Stabler were the MVPs of the movie for me
wow. Every part of me wants to say I loved that movie. Truth be told, I enjoyed it. But holy fuck, who wrote that trainwreck of a script? That movie just jumped from scene to scene. Seemed like a shitload got cut or something…
Should have called that movie Man of Steel : Leap of Faith
Spoiler
Lois Lane becomes a better detective than Batman by figuring out who Superman is, in no fucking time. Thanks a ton for not knowing how to keep your mouth shut, Pete Ross you fat IHOP fuck.
Clark really expects nobody to know his secret identity? Even though the Aliens that knew exactly who to look for went exactly to the Kent farm and fucked it up? Then later Lois goes there with a military/police convoy, after making out with Superman, in the middle of the ruins of Metropolis? Not even an explanation on how his glasses fooled everybody, especially considering he’s the guy who grew up on the farm that Lois and Zod kept visiting during the entire fucking movie, and he looks identical to the giant dude who just saved Earth.
How convenient that the 20,000 year old ship worked perfectly for Supes. Even nicer that it had a perfect fitting suit with his father’s crest on it, in the ship. Also very convenient of him to happen to be working in a bar where 2 random military guys are openly discussing finding the fucking ship in the first place.
Pa Kent gets obliterated by a tornado like 40 feet away while giving the thumbs up soldier pose. I actually laughed out loud in the theatre at that part. I kept waiting for Supes to blow it away with his breath.
Zod gains all of Superman’s powers and can fly perfectly within SECONDS of being exposed to Earth, something Clark didn’t have happen until much much later in his life.
Superman seemed afraid of bullets and dodged them every chance he could
Superman killed half of Kansas when he first fought Zod
My sister walked out of the theatre saying "the last half of that movie was just buildings falling down"
The chick who wasn’t Ursa was able to leap thousands of feet (I am assuming all their powers were from their suits? That shit never really got explained, cuz I don’t remember them leaping around like crazy back on Krypton), and could tear through steel and concrete like it was wet tissue, but when the plane at the end is slowly crashing into her spaceship, she just stands there like a clueless buffoon.
Perry White and Jenny Olsen had zero reason to be there. Nobody really seemed to be fleshed out at all.
Superman never really seemed full “Super”. Sure he did some incredible feats of strength, but I kept waiting for him to punch somebody to outer space, or throw a building or something.
Sooo…does Earth have Kryptonian tech now, or what?
Where the fuck did Lois and everybody work at the end of the movie? Cuz I am pretty sure ALL OF FUCKING METROPOLIS GOT OBLITERATED
Dunno how I felt about how Zod was dealt with. I also didn’t notice any easter eggs besides seeing Lexcorp on the side of a truck, and possibly:
Spoiler
The chick at the end who was in the military and said he was cute, had Ferris on her name tag from the looks of it, but I might just be over reading that
Yeah I googled to find out about that Satellite. My bad on that one.
Spoiler
I am not talking so much about Zod adapting faster. I am talking about his powers just HAPPENED. Clark was in school by time his kicked in, Zod has it start happening to him the split second he breathes Earth air. There was no waiting period, that was INSTANT. And Zod was flying quite well, while fighting, at the end. First thing he does is shrug off his armor then just hover perfectly.
And I stated that Fiora went from having no super powered armor on Krypton, to having it on Earth, and then being useless when the plane she was on was flying into her spaceship. Bitch, how hard is it to jump straight up, especially when walls and ceilings aren’t really obstacles to you? I didn’t need her powers to be explained, just her sudden bout of stupidity.
And I don’t care what kind of shells and nonsense were being shot at Clark. He had just flown into outer space, flown Zod through half of Smallville’s infrastructure, and taken a fucking oil rig to the head previously in the movie. Then he is suddenly dodging bullets?
c’mon Rocky. It was a horribly scripted movie with stellar effects featuring a beloved character. After the last Dark Knight movie, and this Supes, I am fucking terrified at what Nolan will do with Justice League.
SERIOUSLY?
[details=Spoiler]Because it wasn’t until Zod removed his face shield that he started experiencing the overwhelming sound, and x-ray vision. Either way, whether I am right or wrong, there is still like 5000 more plot holes in that movie with no explanation.
Still trying to wrap my head around why Zod needed Lois early on…besides as a plot device[/details]
Those suits were poorly explained…
I take it you concede the rest of my points at least?
I just wanted to mention that I want Faora to have my babies. That is all.
I now return you to people poking holes in the plot.
Oh I agree. I wanna know why she wasn’t Ursa though…
You gotta admit, that movie had plot holes big enough that Bruce Wayne could crawl out of them and magically appear back in Gotham.
I was of two minds watching this film.
On one hand-- I was enjoying finally seeing a Superman movie where he gets to strut his stuff and deal with something cosmic.
On the other hand-- I was thoroughly pissed by the retarded backlash of people shitting on it because they don’t understand the character.
The Rotten Tomatoes score is some of the greatest bullshit I’ve seen ever congregated by professional critics in a lifetime. It hinges almost entirely upon some other movie that was neither advertised nor asked for-- and assumes Superman is all smiles, nationalism, and clumsy hi-jinks with Lois and Clark. We’ve asked for an intense movie like this for a good long while, and when we finally get it we have a community of people who have deemed themselves untouchable by sheer fact that they have opinions(Regardless of how hyperbolic they are as they express them) who seem to believe that because this movie is not their arbitrary list of stylistic choices, it’s a failure.
As much as I love professional criticism, and feel it necessary for film-- I can’t help but feel that the people in charge of that department have stuck their heads so far up their asses they no longer have a grasp on what the fuck is going on in the world. It’s disheartening, that whatever movie is put on screen-- they will clearly see another, because in their mind they should influence creative license in the industry. And of course if anyone dare cry foul at the whole sentiment, the same “OH YOU JUST DON’T LIKE OPINIONS” pops-up, and the straw man lives on. God I wish Roger Ebert wasn’t dead.
P.S. I really liked the film.
with regards to the outpost. That wasn’t what I was talking about
Spoiler
I stated it was fucked that there is a 20,000 year old ship that just HAPPENS to have a perfect fitting suit with Superman’s father’s crest on the front, and that Superman finds out about it from 2 random fucks in a bar who are openly discussing it, where he happens to work. Oh and he can fly it perfectly. BIIIIIIIIIIIG leap of faith there…
And i still maintain they never stated whether the suits that Zods army wore were for show or actually did anything. I literally spent a huge chunk of the movie thinking the suits were enhancing the Kryptonians, seeing as they made a huge deal out of their protective masks going away and causing reactions, and how the suits separated them from Earth’s atmosphere (for some reason).
Spoiler
Realize this was a movie that had MULTIPLE scenes where Superman would whup somebodies ass, only for them to just get up, and hop on a ship that conveniently was ready to zoom back up to the mother ship. Not one scene featuring this. MULTIPLE.
This entire movie didn’t seem to be written by anybody, but instead seemed like a bunch of forum geeks threw out ideas, in pointform, and then Nolan just filmed those ideas and made a movie out of them.
Spoiler
- I would like to know how much time passed between the fight and him being employed.
enough time for an entire city to apparently be rebuilt from ASHES.