I was under the assumption that Just Defending shorten block stun, not gave you frame advantage, which is why you can’t retailiate against every move you just defend.
yeah that sounds right i dont know the name for it but it is still the same principle- u gain an advantange.
You dont really gain an advantage, no offense but at least know what it is if your going to down on it. You get no retaliation factor whatsoever, not to mention block stun 99 percent of the time really isnt going to do you any good in normal play. The only gaining factor in jding is the fact that you get bar for it, and you dont even get that much bar for it. Sure you gain a sliver of life but most of the time not always but most of the time that doesnt really do anything for you.
Do this and tell me why this would not be an advantage.
have a buddy or the computer to forward and FP with geese and block it…try to hit him…no luck huh?
now JD the Forward and FP then hit down fk…did it hit…it does for me and about every other k groove player that is any good.
and when u jd you dont get pushed back so maybe that is why u can do this
Quick, hurry up and delete this post while you still can!
If you can stop blocking and get hit with the rest of the B&B, then you’re not comboing all of the hits properly.
Any chain or link combo in a Capcom-made, non-3S game doesn’t allow you to stop blocking in the middle of combo. The only reason 3S lets you is because of Red Parry.
In any case, the Sagat vs Hibiki example is kind of an exception. That is one of the few B&B combos that are completely punishable by just about any Level 3 super whether it connects or is blocked. Taking the hit was a more intelligent option than blocking the whole thing and doing nothing, as opposed to landing a garaunteed Level 3 in exchange for like 1/25 of your life.
It’s basically the same thing as taunting a K user before you die. It’s tactical. But anyone saying K Groove is fucked because you gain meter for being hit is stupid. Outside of JD and the Level 3 that you get from JDing and being hit, what advantage does that Groove over any other? Nothing really. It’s a balancing factor. A Groove CC lands and takes 50-75% of life. You get raged. You land a Level 3. They lose 45-60% of life. Substitute the CC for Level 2 to Level 1/special cancel, Level 3, or whatever. It’s all the same. It’s balanced.
Why you dont? There is nothing you can hit them with after a jd that they cant block or escape, the only advantage is the fact that it gives you a sliver of life and some bar.
Seriously, you are completely wrong.
It’s coo though I’ll just explain the properties of Just Defend.
If you press back or down/back during the last 2 frames of getting hit you ‘just defend’. Quite a few things happen when you just defend.
1)Push back is non existent. (When you block or get hit by moves, your character moves backward, just defend eliminates that)
This can be VERY crucial in a match. For example, some normals/specials may have bad recovery but are difficult/impossible to punish because they push you too far away. With just defend you don’t have to worry about that.
Sometimes this can be a bad thing but it’s mostly beneficial.
2)You recover faster out of block stun. I know it’s not instant recovery like parrying but it’s still very good. A large amount of far medium/hard attacks in the game can be punished.
Ex. I was playing my friends P Rock the other day with K Blanka. Rock had basically NO options. I know Blanka owns him anyway but add in the fact that everytime I Just defended a low/stand forward or a sweep it was a free counter C.Fierce or Sweep. Rocks poking game was gone(which sucks to begin with), which made it difficult for him to set ups parrys and the match wasn’t even close.
Even when you can’t punish moves after just defending, it’s still effective because you can gain momentum by puting your opponent in block stun since you can get frame advantage.
3)You get super bar. Don’t need to explain the benefits of rage…
4)You get life back. I don’t care how little life you get back this can decide matches. I average about 15-20 jd’s a match and I find that I get a pretty decent amount of life back.
5)No chip and guard meter damage. Not only do you not lose life from block damage you gain life from the JD…so essentially if you JD a special attack you get double the life back.
The guard meter is obviously very crucial…it pretty much speaks for itself but here’s an example of great the potential is:
Playing Gwai Lo 1/2’s A Sakura I jd’d like the first 3 or 4 hits of her CC and it saved me from getting guard broken.
So basically Just Defend is the shiet…it’s easy, safe and has huge benefits
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That’s priceless
My favorite part of this joke is the “no offense but at least know what it is if your (sic) going to down on it”… pretty nice man
ahaha
and then the deliberate misinformation later on… the author cleverly pretends that he has completely no clue in order to give us laughs
ehehe… “Can’t retaliate after a JD”… that was a great one, man, you made my day
… aside from Ino JDing the first hit of A Sak’s DP CC and then DPing her out of it. I mean, you can ALWAYS do that if you normally block it, right?
no man…if u jd u dont get block stun from the first hit of the dp cc
thats when u’re able to dp her outta cc
but if u block it normally …then u’ll have block stun and cant dp it…thus eating the rest of her gc cc
least thats what i think
oh yea, ALWAYS, if you cant do this… 
:lol:
Hmm now I see your point, I stand corrected on that then.
CvS2 is not Mark of the Wolves.
JD gives you almost no tangible advantage. You cannot cancel JDstun into a reversal. What Ino did is extremely unreliable, luck based, and should never ever happen. Here’s why.
JDing in a custom is retarded. Moves have completely different stun times. Moves in a custom have completely different damage rates also. These are likely connected in some way. Try this with K-Geese. Sakura activate custom, close fierce (you JD it and hold forward). Now if she does the cancel early, you won’t get hit because the stun will chain. If she does the cancel slightly late, then you can reverse it (or in this case, get punched in the gut).
Here’s why it should never happen. First off, if you just do your cancels on time, this never happens. Second off, if you want to K proof your custom, add in extra normals in the beginning. K-proof Sakura custom would be activate, stand fierce, low forward, stand fierce (if there was any JDing, adjust accordingly and pick a button you like and mash until the flashing stops) then grind down.
I’m tired of people saying “Ino did it, that means K can beat A”. It doesn’t mean anything, that incident was a product of laziness. You have to outplay the other person almost 4 to 1 to win against Kyo/Iori/Sakura simply because if they’re using their brains, every time they get the meter, their damage is guaranteed whereas your meter is worth nothing most of the time (and hell, most good A groovers will time their custom to your meter so you get hurt AND you get no meter for it).
Most of the time just defend isn’t even that great. You have to do a lot of JDing to get good results. JDing something like Cammy fierce just makes your life worse. JDing crossups really makes your life worse. Most of the time you JD something in close you’re really just hoping the other guy will screw up so you can get something you haven’t earned.
K groove is fucking retarded. I play it because I play CvS2 maybe once a month in a tournament or something, but I still like to win while I play it. K isn’t the best, but it’s by far the most braindead and scrubby. It is the perfect groove for CvS2.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
thanx for this post…it might help some scrubs realize k-groove is hardly over-powered. but from ur post, i feel like u are saying k-groove doesn’t take skill to play at a high level…and i think it takes just as much work as it does to get good at k-groove than it does to get good with C-groove or N-groove…now I will admit…a-groove is an experts groove, along with p-groove. But yeah; i believe k-groove can and will win at high level comp soon…like i’ve believed alllllll along
i’ve never played another groove seriously at all…k-groove is juss pure rushdown, i guess i like it because it kinda brings me a nostalgic sense of MvC2…but a VERY VERY VERY VERY watered down sense
Ok, I admit, I made a mistake
Foolish me, I said to hit up or upforward. It’s actually UPBACK if you want it to work 100% of the time.
Now, with that said, granted I told you the wrong direction to jump, so even if you did try it, you probably wouldn’t have got it to work anyways. But according to you, it won’t work no matter what I told you to press anyway right?. I don’t care what the “rules” of CvS2 are supposed to be. I’m telling you, go to training, record her combo. When it says 5 hits, and you feel that you are “comboing all of the hits properly”, then set the dummy on play, and test it against Sagat.
d+wk > d+wk > d+wk > d+wp xx qcf+wp
After the FIRST or SECOND kick, hold UPBACK. (not up, not upforward. But UPBACK) You will remain standing as you eat the 3rd wk followed by the last two hits, as it is a combo. It does work. There is no “only 3rd Strike cuz of Red Parry” about it.
Anybody who doubts me, feel free to try it.
Jive Out!
You’re right
You remain blocking if you hold it in down or down-forward, but not in any non-down direction.
Actually JDing crossups can be very beneficial. Viscant was probably talking about Shotos, Sakura, Blanka, Geese, Chun Lis etc. crossups but just to clear any confusion…Nearly every crossup that ‘sticks’ is dangerous when playing against K Groove. Note that big characters can sometimes have a better advantage at punishing crossups.
Cammy, Rolento(doesn’t stick but just always gets killed against big K characters), Guile, Bison(short or forward):
I know for sure JDing these charcaters crossups fucks them. JD->kick throw might even be completely untechable in certain situations. If they go for a combo after the crossup, they will get thrown, obviously. Sure these characters don’t even need their crossups(cept maybe Rolento) but whatever
Kyo, Ryo(doesn’t stick but has to be done very high in the air), Yuri, sometimes Mai have their problems as well. In most cases all they can do is tech the throw. And teched throws are advantageous to K Groove in almost every situation.
Why is JD’ing crossups a bad idea? Here’s an example, blanka crossup fierce electricity does insane chip damage. If you JD the crossup you can throw them for free before they can get the electricity out, so why is it a bad idea there? You don’t take the 10% chip damage and like 50% guard or whatever the heck it does. JD’ing other crossups gives you free throws all the time too before they can combo off of it.
Also you said JD gives you no tangible advantage, ok how about if someone’s throwing out random pokes that are usually safe, but not when they’re JD’ed that’s pretty big advantage there isn’t it? Like for most characters trips from the right distance are free guard damage, but JD that whoops too bad gonna eat counter attack or a huge combo or a level 3 super.
Maybe if you actually played K Groove more than once a month like you said you opinion would be halfway accurate and worth something.
“Why is JD’ing crossups a bad idea? Here’s an example, blanka crossup fierce electricity does insane chip damage. If you JD the crossup you can throw them for free before they can get the electricity out, so why is it a bad idea there? You don’t take the 10% chip damage and like 50% guard or whatever the heck it does. JD’ing other crossups gives you free throws all the time too before they can combo off of it.”
Um. No.
There’s no such thing as a free throw without using meter unless you’re Zangief. K-Zangief is a special case in that he actually has guaranteed throws off JD. For everyone else, throws have startup.
JD into throw only works if the other person fucks up, since almost everyone has a jab or short that comes out faster than 3 frames. You get JD as air defense into throw only against people who don’t really know how to play against K groove. There are piles of things that you can do to counter JD into throw, the easiest being HOLD UP. JDing crossups is more trouble than it’s worth. YOU are at disadvantage, not them. All they have to do is mash a jab or short and you can’t do anything. You can’t cancel out of the JD. It’s pretty much you just saying “here, I’m stuck here right next to you, do whatever you want”. At least when you block you get pushed away and can retaliate better.
Oh and one more thing. Your example was completely garbage. Crossup forward into electricity deals you LESS damage if you block the crossup than if you just defend it. JD leaves you closer in so you block more electricity. It’s still just as guaranteed either way. The only way you get “free throw” is if he tries to RC for some unknown reason.
“Maybe if you actually played K Groove more than once a month like you said you opinion would be halfway accurate and worth something.”
Maybe if you knew what the fuck you’re talking about, weren’t talking out of your ass and actually were GOOD at CvS2, you wouldn’t have just made an ass of yourself.
Thank you, drive through.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com