K-Groove needs to dissapear

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
101

If you just defend certain crossups, like the ones I mentioned before it’s can be really hard to avoid a throw. I’ve seen many people try and mash jab, but they still get thrown. Also, I’ve never had Rolento tech a kick throw after I jd’d his crossup…this is just my experience and not any facts so I guess it probably means nothing. When I think about it, it probably has to do with positioning and that Jd seems to slow down the attack that was just defended so my opponents always make errors. I really don’t know, and too lazy to figure it out exactly why.

but I know for a FACT that after JDing many crossups you can C.jab->bread and butter if they do anything but block.

Oh and Blanka crossup->electricy = massive amounts of free meter, and a lvl 3 if they keep mashing. Everytime my K Groove fights Blanka I pray to god he does this.

102

JDing Crossups is the same as JDing a normal air attack. You’ll be pummeled as long as the other guy does proper chains from a proper cross up (read- deep enough). There is no way a JD can help you recover faster from the initial hit such that you can throw him out of it. Not even for Zangief.

The only thing that allows you to throw after you JD is if your Character is Big and the opponent doesn’t hit deep enough to land and continue. That’s all. Which is why it seems Zangief is a good choice for such Tactics. But, I wouldn’t jump at a K-Groove Zangief at all.

And JD has glitches too…

Awwright

you guys try to do this.
Have Akuma Throw an Air Fireball at you.
JD it.
Now
Block his Immediate sweep (Normal Block). (This sweep should be the one that Comboes off the Fireball , into a two hit.)

Notice that if Akuma does it correctly, you CAN’T block it?
Unfair huh?

Either you JD BOTH
or you plain Block Both.

And JD has disadvantages against other air moves too anyway. Rolento’s Jumping MP comes to mind. JD the First of the 3 hits, block the rest, and suddenly, you don’t have Shortened Block stun. Feh. Of course, unless, you JD all 3 of it. Thank Goodness hisshoukyaku is slow.

103

You can’t be thrown while in JD stun. Therefore, you should JD everything because you can just do a shoryuken the exact frame you come out of JD stun and nothing can touch you.

And what’s this BS about JDing crossups leaving you closer? Crossups don’t even push you away.

104

alright…im a lazy ass, so i ain’t gun say that experiment doesn’t work, but i can say that every akuma player i’ve played against must have did it wrong before hand. (i doubt he can land the sweep though, i bet u can JD both) at any rate, that is one of the best crossups in the game, and u can negate that by neutral jumping and kickin him.

JD’ing a crossup ISNT a bad idea…what can they do to you? if they do it too high/early, they can get thrown or hit with a c.lk or c.jab if they try and continue the block chain, or if they do it PERFECTLY and deep…okay…accept it…you got crossed up…either block the rest of the block chain, or JD the first part of the block chain and block the rest…i don’t understand why its bad…take ken for example…j.mk, two c.lk’s, hcf + lk. JD the j.mk, the first lk, block the second lk, and block the kick move…okay…how is that so bad. even on blanka’s cross mk to electricity it is not a bad idea to JD the mk.

have you played k-groove seriously? i doubt you have…because on this thread…you can kind of weed out who does and who doesn’t…u seem to be one that doesn’t.

yeah…and multi-hit moves are pretty hard to JD…thats just a downside of JD’ing

105

JDing a cross up then throwing is situational…MOST of the time you cant do it, and most of the time when you do it, its because they person doesnt know how to play against k groove (like viscant said). I say its situational because it depends how deep the cross up is. If its hella deep and late your not doing shit after a JD. If the cross up hits early and high I can jab you before you land. Example, I was geese, chun li crosses me up high and early, I JDed, mashed on jab and jabed her out of the air before she landed. But since all this shit is situational, its kind of random and most of the time just guessing. Some other weird things that happened was i JDed a cross up with Ken then i FP dped them before they landed. I’m thinking this and the geese example can only happen when the cross up will not combo because it has hit so high. So really it doesnt matter, the only reason to JD a cross up is if your going to continue to JD the following moves to throw off opponents momentum.

im outi

Roberth

106

???

Yo 50More Centz
For the Record, I wasn’t dissing you…

ok

Yes, I play K-Groove Very Seriously.
It’s my main groove for these past 2 years, and EVERY SINGLE WORD i said before is true. And I don’t know what you’re saying about the Akuma thing, but I was just pointing out to the masses that K-Groove has it’s own Glitch Flaws. That Akuma Thing wasn’t even a Cross Up, it was a NORMAL Attack. It IS a 2 hit combo, don’t be lazy and Go Try. And it’s a Game FLAW that you cannot Block his sweep Normally after you JD the First Fireball. Hello How do you Jump Neutral and Attack Akuma when you just got off the floor and the Fireball is in front of your Face??? YOu can Only JD it for Goodness sake (Or Block it)! And you can’t normally Block it 100% just by pressing DB if you JDed the Fireball standing, AWW HECK, I say GO TRY…

And I Never, EVER did say that JDing Crossups were bad, I only said that it’s the same as JDing a normal Jump in without a cross up, so read carefully before shooting out on how you ‘Weed’ people out because apparently your ‘weeding tactics’ are quite flawed.

I’m saying what I just said only based off what you are saying, I don’t know enough about your skillz or knowledge so I won’t comment any further on how I may ‘doubt’ that ‘a certain person’ doesn’t play ‘a certain groove’ seriously enough to know nuts about it.

Look, I’m not dissing you, but I just hope you read better and learn to ‘Weed’ out the Real people who need weeding. This wan’t even a case of you trying to correct any mistakes I may have made, it’s a matter of how you didn’t even properly read what I was saying first.

And Look, For the Serious K-Groovers, Understand that you can just JD Blanka’s J.MK Crossup, and the Subsequent 3 Burst of Electricity and you will earn more than you were chipped off of once you decide to Stop JDing. For those who immediately think “WTF that’s impossible”, YOU’RE the one who hasn’t played enough K-Groove. You know who you are.

107

Well if you actually sit here and think about this, its not the same. There is more risk involved in JDing a cross up, although it’s minimal, it still leaves room for more error. I know this cause it has happened to me many times.

im outi

Roberth

108

Hahah

ok, someone jumps at you, you make a judgement

Is it a Cross up?

Yes : You Block Right…Good
Yes : You block Wrong…no good
No : Same as above.

Which means that it was actually if you judged correctly if there was a cross up involved.

Of course, there is always a Risk that you JD too slow and got hit. but, that’s not a problem with JD, it’s a problem with reaction see…

Anyway I get your point, it is situational.

However what i was saying is that, mucking up the JD aside, the result of JDing a deep Jump in from the Front and JDing a Deep Jump in as a cross up is the same, because you stay still, the opponent will almost most likely get the same type of hits off you subsequently.

109

I think that guy was replying to Viscant, who is smart and says that JDing a crossup leaves you worse off than if you blocked it.

110

viscant sucks, and so does k groove… pshhh, if all of you were actually good you’d never get crossed-up anyways because you’d be on their ass like white on viscant

111

come on guy; i know u can JD however many burst of electricity u want/they feel like putting out…what im saying is it is quicker than most and is one of the harder ones to do…how many k-groove high comp video’s have u seen of people JD’ing electricity.

sorry, i mighta misjudged you, sorry if i did, but i do see a lot of people not knowing what they are talking about…and we still do need to weed out the people that don’t really play k-groove…and i dun really care if ya think i can’t play k-groove…and if u think i can’t weed non-k-groovers out…i might not be able to weed non playing k-groovers out

i can tell you that k-groove isn’t about JD’ing a tiger kneed fireball by akuma…its about a lot of tick throwing, landing your bread n butters, pokes, and using small jumps and extended block strings to wear ur opp’s guard down. you JD mainly to get the momentum back in your favor, and air to air attacks. yes, there are other situations, those are the ones that come up the most.

trust me…i can cover my ground in the k-groove arena, and im ALWAYS willing to admit when im wrong, and willing to always learn…so if u know more than me…teach me sumtin

112

Jding crossup->electricity is damn easy… it’s definetly not one of the harder JD’s in the game, not even close.
Sure Jding just electricity can be a bitch because it’s comes out fast and it has to be real close but after a crossup? its basically free super/health.

113

Actually, Jreinert said it all…with respect to any response to my post.

Anyway

50morecentz

Here, I’m extending my hand out to ya, Peace man.

ok, look, Poke strings, Tick Throws, B&B they’re important, true, however, you’ll realise they’re important for everyone.

ok, I’m sure you have your style in playing K, i respect that you hold your ground. Let me share with you how I play.

Say you are Fighting Sagat. Do you jump at a turtling Sagat? I do. There are Tons of things he can do. S.HP, Jump HK, Jump HP, Standing HK. Early Tiger Uppercut. Late Tiger Uppercut. Close Tiger Cannon. Wait for you to land, then throw. (Or if they read my mind, they jump BACKWARDS and Throw a HK)

That is why, once I jump I Immediately Tap Back in case he was extending his S.HP. Then Tap again, in case he did his Jump.HK or HP. Then at a slight pausse, one more tap, then Wait for an early Tiger Uppercut, Tap anyway, if he did it, Tap 3 times, Tap just Before you reach teh Ground (He may do another Tiger uppercut before you land but this one you will bounce away because he is too far to connect the rest). He MAY also do S.HK, which hits twice if done deep enough, bu this just means you didn’t jump near enough to have done a nice combo anyway.

If NOT, Tap once at his Face level in case of a Tiger Cannon ,if he DOES , Tap 3 times really quick , you’ll bounce off and up.)

If No Tiger Cannon, Just tap again anyway in preparation for the Late Tiger Uppercut, which you may have to JD 5 times.

now, in between all these, you have the option to attack before you JD, if the Sagat is crouching, of course you don’t attack too early. I usually get in my hit early only if they’re standing. If they’re Crouching, I anticipate a Late Tiger uppercut. If he does nothing, expect a throw, or anything else, in which case, you press Down Back then immediately LP then Immediately HP (all done very fast) at the same time once you reach the Ground. If he tried a Light Kick, you’d have JDed it, continue from there yourself. If he tried to throw you, you would have broken Free. If he Still did nothing, you’d have just taken a bit of his guard bar with a LP, and successive poke strings at him depending on who you are. (You can just Back Down + HP if you want to also, it’ll just result as a HP)

Now is this all worth it?

HECK NAAAWWW some people would say.

but realise, everyone has their own Air to Air, Ground To Air tactics. In Sagats Case, it is unwise for him to Jump HK or Jump MP in retaliation to your jump, because you JD that, its a Free bar, AND free damage for you, since you don’t bounce high enough to be too far away from him. (Yeah, some people are thinking now “IF i JD that” but that’s besides the point)

options left are the remaining ones.

Tiger Cannons, which unless he has a level 3 of, you are safe from since your leg being in front of his face negates his Tiger Cannon. Unless you were , umm, unclever enough to jump too far from him to do a hit anyway.

Which leaves him with 2 options. Early Tiger uppercut, which most people I see do. Late Tiger Uppercut, which the Cleverer ones I know do. Of course, the cleverest ones jump back and HK, I bounce back, they are already going backwards. But hey, you have a free bit of life and bar. (IF I JD that, hurhur)

now, of course, you have to judge for yourself what your opponent is like. If he cannot react with late Tiger uppercuts, or mostly just block, by all means, go ahead and chip him away.

Ok. This is just my style. And I get different results from it depending on which character I am playing against. Sometimes you cry trying to JD some characters (Rolento the Bstrd comes to mind).This example is only Sagat. It’s by no means the best way of playing K-Groove, but that’s just me, I utilise JD every single damn chance I get, even if it means risking getting hit form a really unexpected move. (Of course I don’t jump in to someone waiting there to do a Raging storm). No wait. I do. That’s just me, i want to learn to JD every single damn JDable move out there.( I might master it in around 562 years, look out for me then, I’ll be Oro with one Arm playing at the Arcades.) 5 taps fast for that. Remember. The point is, I jump in if I know I can afford the kind of damage the other guy can at that moment potentially dish out as an AA if I muck up. Oh, And If someone MISSES hitting you with a Raging storm, Jump into it anyway, one bounce, you’re out, and you have free life and meter. And if you were fast enough to wuickly jump in , you might still have a chance to retaliate as he finishes his missed combo.

114

alright…i kinda like that about the raging storm, i think it would be good if k-groovers actually learned how to JD those supers which tell all the other grooves “not to jump in” except for maybe P. It would be good if learned how to JD those, then they’d waste that lv3 that they had been waitin to use for oh so long.

the way i deal with sagat…it might be odd and more simple…but instead of trying to JD an unexpected anti air or a tiger uppercut (which i can JD a tiger uppercut, but…its about a 30/70 chance of me defending the whole thing right), i try and stuff his tiger uppercut. especially since i play ryu and rock a good bit…both of their rh’s will stuff sagat’s tiger uppercut and come out better on the damage aspect of things.

i use my JD to interupt the opponents block strings for my block strings. and i know tick throwing is important for every groove…but i think it is more important for k-groove since k-groove lacks many other things such as counter attack, meter u can sit on, counter roll, a roll period…the lack of these things and then since k-groove has run, small hop, and jd makes it THE groove to tick throw IMO. may seem like a scrubby style of playing…but i’ve been playin k since the day it came out, never played another groove and im not sure why i didn’t, hehe; i remember i said i was going to either play k or s the first day it came to my arcade…im glad i picked k.

115

That is not the point, though.

Let’s pick out P Groove and put it in that situation. IIRC, A Groove activation gives the activated character a 5 refresh frame advantage on moves. If you Parry “wrong” you get a 5 frame advantage, if you Parry “right” you get 7. So technically, if you Parry Sakura’s first stand fp after the ping, you should be able to hit her back because you’ve got 2 extra frames left over (providing you’re not doing some move like Kyosuke’s c.rh).

It doesn’t ever happen like this. What happens is, Sakura pings, I Parry the first hit, and it totally fucks up what they were doing and I can basically jab them out of the custom. Granted, even if I Parry “wrong” I have a longer window to hit her back than if I Just Defended it.

Very rarely do A Groove users anticipate the Just Defense of Parry of the first hit of a custom. It’s like anticipating a Guard Cancel Counter. Theoretically, the A Groove char could cancel into a Roll and possibly avoid the hitbox of the Counter and keep going after the opponent whiffs. But you never see this happen unless someone is being blantantly obvious about Countering. Actually, I have NEVER seen this.

The point is, K and P Groove are largely at a disadvantage against A Groove. This is why, while Ino can do some impossible ass shit, guess who won the match? Tokido. The example is though, not an illustration of refresh frame advantage or some kind of technical gimmick. You just fuck people up when you JD or Parry thier custom hits, and it allows you to hit back if you’re quick enough (or lucky enough to have something with invincibility and high priority like a DP).

116

K-groove is fun

I like the groove:cool:

117

the thing is, like viscant said, if someone wanted to make it full proff you would throw in some other moves in there 2-3 of them before the initial repeated DPs, then they WILL HAVE TO JD those too, they will not be able to poke you out of them since the moves come out so fast one after another…call it lazyness, not knowing, not playing smart, whatever, it shouldnt have happened…in k groove

im outi

Roberth

118

OK.
And while that’s all well and good for P groove, that means nothing in regards to what we’re talking about for K. Like I said, here’s how to prove it. Sakura activates, then does close stand fierce, you just defend. She cancels to uppercut. You can hold forward and mash or do whatever you want. If she does the cancel on time you will NOT get hit.

I acknowledge that this can be difficult to time because after 3s, people start to freak out when they see the screen flash. Which is why I said that most people around here WILL K proof their customs just by adding in extra normals. Like I said, when you JD the first hit, you’re really just hoping the other guy will screw up and you can get something you haven’t earned.

Trust me, I’ve trained people to do this the hard way. I play K-Blanka and Cole plays K-Balrog. I ripped off the stored charge from him. Hold the charge, see the custom flash, tap forward, then back (jd is here) then hold d/f and mash. If you fuck up you get fried (or gigatonned).

It only takes 2 or 3 times before people figure out how to K proof their customs. It’s really not hard though…all you’re doing is picking a button you like and mashing until the pretty red flashing goes away. This isn’t rocket science, it’s CvS2.

On other stuff in this thread:
The Akuma example sort of works but the timing is different than people are thinking of. It’s not as easy as Sagat or Sakura (don’t ever just defend their jumpin if they’re holding meter) but it works. They have to hold onto the air fireball for a long time. Most people who try this on me don’t do it right although throwing air fireball then landing and activating custom if I JD still works. <3 <3 <3 A groove <3 <3 <3

Also IMO JD is overused in a lot of matches I see here in the US. People think that just because they CAN just defend stuff, they should. That’s not really the case. Like I said, just defend gives you almost no tangible advantage on a lot of pokes and gives a tangible DISadvantage on others (jabs, Cammy).
But people also just defend too much and waste their meters. Nobody in the US times their rage to go off with the other person’s guard bar or times their rage to go off AFTER a custom is over or things like that.

Meter management is what sets apart most of the Japanese K groovers and ours. It’s a scrub groove, but Japan still does it better than we do.

–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

119

god damn…that was a good point…

good shit, now i must rethink some k groove shit LOL…

im outi

Roberth

120

guys, i dont want to sound like a n00b but k groove has its own disadvantages

surely you can JD just about ANYTHING especially if you’re playing turtle or playing geese and rock and hibiki and shit

i mean you possibly cant play, let’s say… Iori on K groove because of the absence of ROLL. rolling is… should i say a BIG factor in a groove. but i think it only justifies why K groove is more like the suicidal types of rushers.

let’s just say that K groove is for those who dont like to block too much and those who rushes an enemy. and dont need to camp a while and wait for a throw.

k groove players are oftenly getting predictable when they have their rage mode on. it’s just one of the things that affects the game i guess… anyway… i think it should remain as it is.

K Groove = No roll, no scrubby air guard, super cancels(i’m not complaining, it’s always level 3) no bullshit and no turtling around sitting your rage mode out.