What’s everyone’s opinion on cr. HP as a poking tool? Most active frames and looking at those hit-boxes it seems to have the most priority. And cr. short definitely isn’t a longer poke than cr. MP. Look at the box under Yang. cr. LK doesn’t reach the line while cr. MP crosses it clearly.
Umm what are those purple boxes on Yang on his jump normals?
Yang’s best anti air (if you account for reward) is launcher, but you have to recognize the distance it comes out and it’s not always possible to anti air with it. It’s really easy to do it in the corner though, just hover around that perfect space to use it as an aa, it also happens to be where cr.mk is a killer. cl.mp also works somewhat, not as good as yun’s though.
And i still believe his cr.mp is terrible, probably the worst in the game (even gief’s has more use imo). Against ryu’s cr.mk for instance, if i’m outside is cr.mk range i’d rather counter sweep, if i’m inside, i’d rather cr.lk/s.lk xx rekkas or cr.mk xx rekkas as i said or, better yet, dive kick. I don’t see yangs use it often and if they’re i’d credit it to old 3S habits lol, cr.mp meter building was boss.
projectile invincibile
Well, played a few games today against an Evil Ryu player. I think I did pretty well; the only issue I had against him was being unable to properly read whether he was going to throw a fireball or not. I did manage to anti-air him with Tenshin Senkyuutai for a win though.
Though after playing that game, I noticed that I have issues punishing his sweep from max range, or near max range. I guess it was partially because I kept trying to punish with cr.mk, but that doesn’t have enough reach. After hitting training mode though, I found that if you block it and he hits you around his ankle, you can punish with HP rekkas (though sometimes the second one whiffs for some reason). If he hits you near the tip of his foot though, you can’t catch him with it. You can catch him with EX rekkas though at any range. Doesn’t seem like there’s any way to punish Evil Ryu’s sweep if done at max range unless you have meter (roll kicks aren’t fast enough).
It’s a huge commitment if he’s randomly poking with sweeps and the same holds true for his cr.mk, you just dive kick in. This is why i feel it’s a 7-3 matchup for yang, he gets all the problems ryu faces but worse, although this matchup is probably 6-4 ryu in 2k12 due to nerfs and buffs.
Build a bar and sit there. If he throws a fireball you ex rollkick, if you see him poking with cr.mk, cr.hk, dive kick in. The e. ryu player doesn’t have a lot of options really. Also at -11 u2 most likely punishes it on block.
It definitely works but my issue was punishing it at max range. U2 isn’t fast enough to catch him at max range even if it’s done as a reversal.
But yeah, dive-kicking in definitely works. It would have worked well that game but it was kinda laggy so I didn’t do dive-kicks as much (since my timing kept getting thrown off and I either got thrown when I tried to hit-confirm or I got DP’d). He didn’t seem to try to poke with cr.mk at all though, but if he did I probably would have dive-kicked in or just frustrate him by beating it with st.lk, get him to stop pressing buttons so I could just walk in.
cr.mp has a use defensively.
if you fight any character with a really strong tick throw game, you might consider crouch tech OSing with mp instead of cr.short
ken is the best example i can think of. some ken players like to use blockstring into step back, step forward kara throw. their strategy is to get your cr.short to whiff, and throw you in recovery of your short or when your tech timing is off. in this situation cr.mp will still make contact and break their momentum
you might say well why not use cr.mk? it has more reach and a better hitbox.
one counter strategy to someone crouch teching with mediums is to end the block string in a focus attack. depending on the cr.tech timing and the recovery of the tech normal, you can get a lvl 2 crumple. in this situation if you use cr.mk it starts up slower, and has more recovery, so it has a higher chance of being crumpled
lastly the 1 frame of difference in the two moves means that cr.mp would be less likely to be counter hit during start up
but as an offensive tool, i cant see a ton of reason to use it
In scenarios like you provided and others where i’m neutral (like fei’s chicken wing, sakura’s lk tatsu to an extent) i usually late crouch tech with sweep to catch backdashes. Yeah focus would kill it, but it’s just a matter of recognizing people’s habits and how focus happy they’re, or you could do it with cr.hp which has two hits, though it leave you more open to counterhits.
But fine, his cr.mp has an use, still the worst in the game though.
Yeah, you’re right. I think cr.mp is meant to be used solely as a defensive tool. Not just for the OS you mentioned, but also for poking. Since while it cannot be cancelled into anything, it has a slightly disjointed hitbox, so I think it can be good for catching limbs, like off of Ryu’s cr.mk. It also does more damage (80, as opposed to 60 on cr.mk), and starts up a bit faster.
EDIT: Idiot syndrome got me. cr.mp only does 70 damage in 2012, and you can’t really count the damage of cr.mk without factoring in the rekkas.
You can’t count cr.mk damage without accounting for the rekka followups come on. Plus cr.mp damage was nerfed to either 60 all the time or 70 and then 60 while in senei enbu, can’t remember exactly.
You got me on the damage of cr.mp (70 damage regular, 60 during Sei’ei Enbu). As for damage with rekka follow-ups, while that’s true, if you’re catching limbs like with Ryu’s cr.mk I don’t believe you’ll be in range to actually hit with the rekkas for the most part.
low fierce is not bad against gief. crap recovery, but it seems to mess with a lot of his pokes
It seems to be a pretty good mid-range poke against slower characters in general. Does good damage, gives you a good amount of meter and is safe on block…but obviously whiffing it can be bad.
Also, after playing some more games, I feel more confident with my Yang. I don’t lose to stupid stuff as much anymore. I think the only exception is E. Honda…whether it’s a bad matchup already or not, the input delay online makes it nearly impossible to react to headbutts. Offline I can walk forward a bit and then block on reaction, but that’s nearly impossible to do online. Doesn’t help that Yang seems incapable of punishing headbutts…I’ll have to double check in training mode to see if I can roll kick or U2 to punish any of them.
Other than that, I did have one salty moment. I was facing this DP-happy Ryu player today, and I was doing pretty good…and then this happened.
[media=youtube]MIEsr8qFPRM[/media]
I manage to win the match in the end, but…gah, I’m still annoyed.
ex rekka punishes heavy version, not sure about mp and lp versions. It’s really weird actually, if you do the followups too fast the second one wiffs so you have to delay it or do ex rekka non reversal, can’t remember exactly ^^ haven’t touched yang in a while.
Thanks for the input; I’ll check right now. I can’t tell you how annoying E. Honda is, especially players who do nothing but headbutt and butt stomp…sigh…the salt levels rise quickly when that happens…
Also, after playing a few games against jump-happy players, I’ve noticed that Yang’s jumping lk and jumping HK both seem to be good “anti-airs” in those instances (lk when you’re farther from the opponent, HK when they’re closer). Much easier to time and position than the other grounded anti-air options…though out of all of them, LK Roll Kick seems to be the best if you have good reactions (which I don’t :P).
Okay, I just tested and EX Rekkas can punish all version of Honda’s headbutt. But the second hit seems to whiff more often than not.
Also, after reviewing some of my matches, I realize that I’m not using EX teleport to escape corner pressure…at all. I keep forgetting how good it is to get Yang out of a bad situation.
Anyone else notice that people online have started using meaty DP’s on *your *wake-up recently? I keep falling for it…I never expect it. But now I realize that I probably could have back-dashed, U2 to punish. Live and learn I guess. 
Yeah ex rekka punishing is weird. I recall there was stuff with messing the timing to get all the hits, but i can’t remember if it was doing it non reversal in the first place or delaying the followups or even doing it as fast as you can so that the 2nd hit wiffs and the 3rd hits. It could all be dependant on the version too lol.
Anyway it’s pretty safe to poke back with a rekka after a blocked headbutt because he has no charge. Chip for chip.
Yeah, Honda isn’t giving me as many issues as he did before. Punishing random headbutt’s more consistently now…if the input delay actually let’s me block the dang thing! :mad:
On that note, Seth has been giving me issues. I guess that’s more because he combines all of my hated moves into one character. Projectile spam, dhalsim limbs, command grabs…it’s just a guessing game with Seth, and guessing games aren’t exactly my strong suite. The only thing I can think of to help me fight him is to EX Teleport if he tries for a reset and try to pressure Seth back before he gets in again.
seth can os command grab teleports or just tanden them in
best way for yang to beat seth is just outside of lp tanden range and dive kick a lot. change it up so fst.mp and fst.lp whiffs or stuffs the recovery. when you’re at long range work your way back into mid range dive kicking and occasionally switching between mp palm / hp palm to build meter + discourage limbs. once you have meter or u2 sonic booms aren’t an issue. keeping him in the corner is kind of hard due to his wall jump but looking for it goes a long way to stopping it. has a large hit box, slow ass cr.lk so you can frame trap him pretty nicely and ex throw him from farther. cst.mk, fst.mk do a decent job of aaing him, but keep an eye out for j.HP (which has a much better hit box than j.hk and dive kick.)
throws need to be established early on in your pressure and frame traps need to be on point or you will just get churned.
Thanks for the input. That definitely helps. I guess I just need to get better at reading limbs/fireballs, because reading my opponent’s in general hasn’t exactly been my strong suite. Though that may be in part because I play ranked a lot, and getting only one game in against another player isn’t usually enough to figure out their game-plan…at least not for me.