Wouldnt his far hp and st HK be good for footsies I see that being used a lot in matches
Far HP is but Far HK is slow as hell. Might be a way…
Well it could be KO(Yun)the best yun player ever vs Daigo(yun).it would b a pretty epic match to c
Far HK is pretty good, it has a lot of range, but it’s more for people bulldogging you, to try and stop people like Gief from getting into footsie range, or maybe to stuff firebals? but if they’re allready in footsie range, and actually trying to footsie, it’s too slow, you can’t use it stop people from pressing buttons. Standing hp is also good, and seems to stuff a lot of things, but it has a lot of recovery, so it’s good to throw out, but I wouldn’t want to rely on it in an extended footsie battle.
Then again, like I said, I’m coming from Chun, so I was using pokes to make my oponent stop pressing buttons, and then use overhead to start pressure, as opposed to somebody coming from Rufus or Cammy, who’ll be trying to get their oponent to press buttons, so they can dive kick over it.
I know yun and yang have their differences but what does yang have over yun in advantages?
the only thing i see yang having an advantage is easier to combo into both of his ultras possibly making him better at comebacks?
i dk, what advantages does he have?
What Yang has over Yun:
- Corner escape with EX teleport
- Teleport allows for crossunder mixups
- a faster palm IIRC - make it easier to nullify fireballs (please correct me if Yun’s MP Palm is the same speed though)
- FADCable anti-air (Yun cannot FADC his upkicks)
- a much better air target combo (since it starts with the awesome J.mk)
- a safer ground game, due to safer specials and great frame advantage on jabs/LP mantis, plus massive frame advantage on HP Mantis x2 FADC
- a faster sweep
- longer range on his focus attack, and
- yes, definitely a much greater comeback potential due to baby-mode Ultra setups and massive damage from his super combo.
- both Ultra’s armor break (this may be only a small thing though, since they’re both stupidly comboable)
- also, the matchup is in Yang’s favor, since he has better ways to deal with Yun’s similar offense
What Yun has over Yang:
- a bit more damage in his combos, but there’s not much of a difference until Yun blows some EX meter.
- more target combos - but outside of jab short strong or the punch target combo, they’re not exactly very good, so I personally don’t think it’s much of a tradeoff
- a great command normal with F+HP - hits both sides
- some silly little things like dash punching under Dhalsim’s limbs
- slightly faster divekicks, they crossup a bit better, too
- a better anti-air special at the expense of EX meter.
I’m not going to list anything about their supers. Until I see reactions to Genei Jin like we’ve been seeing about Seie Enbu, I’m reserving judgement.
Like Juicebox has said in his primer, Yun is better offensively - but that doesn’t mean it’s by very much. Yang sacrifices a bit of offensive potential to boost defensive areas of his game, like come back potential and wakeup, but fighting a Yang who is going all out on you is just as scary since Yang has many of the same mixup options. Just liek Yun, Yang will take a hefty amount of life off of one or two mixups. The thing is, you can be a tad more patient playing with Yang than you can with Yun.
Honestly, I actually feel now that the twins have reversed their roles from 3S - Yun being the one who absolutely loves his EX meter, and Yang being more devasating with his Super/Ultra meter, since he has nearly no need for his EX moves. They both want their super meter stocked as far as it can be at all times - You just won’t see Yang blowing it as much typically.
I must have played at least 30 games tonight while talking with another So Cal Yang player, and I have to say…
Yang is like hard mode Yun.
I seriously felt like I took weights off when I was using Yun. His damage is way way higher: cr.mp, cr.mp, st.mp xx upkicks is rediculous damage.
His combos also lead to way better mixup situations.
Biggest thing by far was just how good Yun’s dive kicks were. They crossup ambiguously and their hitstun is actually good, compared to Yang’s who’s divekick hitstun is really bad. His pressure is way way way better than Yang’s.
As far as advantages over Yun, Yang has:
[LIST]
[*]FADCable Upkicks
[*]Slightly faster sweep
[*]Better jabs
[*]Easier time getting past fireball zoning (but harder time getting past zoning with normals)
[*]Hitconfirms into Ultra Combos (scales a shit load though)
[/LIST]
Yang’s ground game is definitely not better by a whole lot, but it is slightly.
I definitely think that stand jab and mantis slashes as pokes aren’t used enough in videos right now. I was having some success doing some balrog/sakura walk forward jab pressure into throws.
Wonder chef and Wasted hit the nail on the head in the overall differences in the 2. I felt the same thing right off the bat in the roles being slightly reversed. I think that Seiei Enbu can end up being more powerful than Genei Jin in the long run but who knows right?
Anyway I wanted to start on some matchups I’ve played so far…
BOXER
-Abuse st.LP when in his face, Yang’s jab is most definitely 3f with at least +1 or +2 on block and definitely +4 or 5 on hit makes sense because cr.MK connects after on hit
-U2 is the go to ultra see below as to why
-Option Select on Boxer’s wakeup: Off of a clean knockdown be it throw or sweep -> cross up MK with Yang, buffer U2 backwards and if he does ANY EX punch he eats U2. Now I’m sure you may not need to option select it because it seems you can react to the focus dmg and nail him anyway. Needs more testing but its garunteed for sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if it hits headbutt because of how slow it is now but again testing~
-Delay your Dives because Boxer cr.MP rocks your Dive.
-st.HP rocks all Boxer’s jump in’s same with st.HK just a bit slower.
-Put palms in your strings to force some respect. I mean its Boxer afterall he’ll always be hitting cr.LP so mix up with MP Palm and HP Palm and get some counterhits to knockdown and advance.
notes
Not that bad of a match, when you get in st.LP is really strong as a bait tool for headbutts and EX punches because you can block. So far the key thing is patience in this match and when you get make it count and dip out of Boxer poke range. You can literally play this match as hit and run, since boxer has no choice but to get in on you when you have the lead. He has no reliable way to build bar safely so he has to attack.
AKUMA
-Can’t vortex you because of EX Dash. GREAT for escaping slight recovery but its enough to get away. So far I haven’t been OS’d for using it. May be hard to because of how it comes out?
-Palm is your best friend, like Boxer, force respect. Especially on Focus happy players, breaks Focus and counterhit dmg and stun is beautiful on Akuma.
-A bit distorted on which ultra to use, U1 is great for round ending and U2 is good for Teleport punish on reaction. Depends on play style in this match IMO. Yang’s corner game is top notch and Akuma can’t ROFL copter out the corner escape tatsumaki. Armageddon can catch U2 but if he uses U1 no dice obviously. U1 is great to punish Akuma st.HK since 2nd hit whiffs not to mention if you net a cross up MK, land, st.MK, Dive whiff, U1 is game time if that hits. But then again on the flip side, cr.MK, HP Mantis slashes x2, FADC, either ultra is also amazing…hmm Typing this makes me think U2 may be better because of the FADC combo and Teleport punish. Shrug* Personal Preference
-Need to double check on this but I believe HK and EX roll kick punish Teleport also.
-st.HP anti air and st.HK and proximity cl.MK I say proximity because they need to be in that range aka proximity to make that normal activate
-Command Dash on reaction to Air Fireballs. I keep forgetting to do this but I’m sure EX puts you in great position to punish along side the other versions. Needs more testing~
notes
Again be patient, get in and stay in. Bait the reversal Shoryu and watch for that Teleport and punish accordingly. St.LP abuse all day long~!
ZANGIEF
-st.MP from Gief is just flat out gay because it stops all of your pokes before they can start up.
-Despite the above still poke with st.HP, st.HK, st.MK, far st.MP to Palm target combo st.mp,st.hp,back+hp (palm ender) for those that didn’t play 3series) great hit confirm to knock Gief back full screen.
-COMBO ALL SLASHES! No delays because mash 360 is death
-Whiffed Lariat if close, punish with U1 or sweep. I thought U2 would be the go to but that freaking LARIAT BEATS U2 CLEAN FROM A DISTANCE!?! Despite it being a low attack…CAPCOM WTF?
-So yeah, U1 is go to ultra because its anti air and whiff punish. Need to test if you can punish Gief’s sweep on block with U1…
-Backdash your ass off when you get hit by EX Greenhand. Better to take the knockdown from Gief and try to EX Dash out because you can’t rely on EX Dash to get through if they do 360 after EX Greenhand since EX Dash can be thrown on startup.
notes
Lame it out and do your best to knock that giant back. Minimal to no dive kicks, stick strictly to poking. Fake Palm to anti air is good to stop the jumping. Active Palm will stop jump in attempts, luckily Yang’s MP Palm is faster than Yun’s.
GUILE
-Get in, stay in.
-SPAM ST.LP
-U1 ultra of choice because theres no possible way you’ll punish Booms on reaction with U2.
-Mixup the Dive with jump ins. Guile’s cr.HP will snuff you clean or trade out of your favor.
notes
Kill him when you’re inside.
VIPER
-cr.MK all day on her wake up if you think DP is coming to low profile and punish.
-EX Dash through Burn Kicks on reaction
-EX Dash through Seizmo’s on reaction
-Neutral Jump HP is too good vs her jumping
notes
Generally speaking you can just dash underneath Viper when she’s airborne (height dependent to a degree) to avoid things. Granted you can get baited but EX Dash~. Just don’t get hit really, Turtle up from the start and abuse Viper’s general game plan which is mount offense and punish. She’ll keep trying to get in and just keep punishing. Simply put, turtle it out.
SAGAT
-Stay underneath the clock in terms of screen spacing. It’s hard yes but thats the sweetspot for U2 to punish Tiger Shots on reaction. Same goes with EX Roll Kick.
-ST.LP ABUSE CALL THE POLICE!
-cr.MK underneath Tiger Knee
notes
Dip in and dip out. Corner carry is important IMO in this match. Ending combos with Roll Kick leads to cross up games but I feel that Sagat’s DP is annoying so yah corner carry for me. Not so bad of a match though.
-more to come, at work and will edit when i get more time-
Just from watching a a bunch of Yangs play, and a very limited amount of personal experience, there’s a few conclusions I’ve came up with. These probably don’t have any weight, but someone might have some inputs to include:
1.) Resets or not? I personally believe that Yang is an extremely solid character; I’ve also said before that I believe he can consistently do a quarter or a third of your HP with a combo. But, one thing that a lot of Yang players are trying are resets. What you have to understand is that resets, by their very nature, are risky. Yang seems like he has below average health (900), so attempting resets with Yang is probably doesn’t provide the payoff of performing a reset with a character like Abel (1050). And, assuming all goes well, Yang still doesn’t really get that much of a benefit from resets. His combos do very solid damage, but resetting the combo isn’t really increasing your damage output that much. Resets do have a time and place, but I feel like Yang isn’t a character who should focus on resets.
2.)Maintaining momentum post-combo and oki. So, a teleport after rekkas isn’t safe. Really, rekkas push characters too far away to do much of any oki. However, canceling into a dragon kick does open some options. The best ways to get into it are hit confirming into a rolling kick or FADCing HP rekkas into one. Now, this does feel like it sacrifices meter (obviously for the FADC, but I’m talking about rekka vs. dragon kick in terms of meter growth) and potentially damage. So, we do have the question of if Yang’s oki is worth sacrificing damage, or another thing I want to bring up…
3.) Yang has amazing horizonal movement. Between his quick dashes, his extended hit confirms, his rekkas, and his rolling through projectiles, Yang can get someone to the corner. Fast. It might not do much damage, but an extended hit confirm canceled into HP rekkas FADC’d into another extended hit confirm xx HP rekkas can move an opponent to the corner with ease. Yang does have a good high-low mix-up, as well as decent (not Rufus-calibur, but usable) dive kick pressure. Add the potential of Yang’s unblockables during super and you can get into some crazy corner pressure.
4.)We’re still somewhat ignorant about Yang’s super. Does damage scaling still exist during his super? Will his current unblockables still be in the console version? Is his corner pressure and damage better suited for saving for super, or EXes and FADCs? Just like resets, I feel like this is something that’s going to just come down to the player at hand. But, it’s interesting to see how biased everyone is to EX rekkas, whereas some players (Although I dislike him, JWong is worth mentioning) prefer EX teleport. But, if Yang’s super has omitted or reduced damage scaling, it might be worth ending his super set-ups with an ultra.
5.) What else are we, as a community, interested in? Match-ups? General info? I’m just curious where we all want to go from here.
Yang has always been about mixups/resets. The same can be said for Sakura. Low stamina but can do formidable damage with the use of Mixup and resets. Especially in 3S, mixing/reseting with Yang, meant outstanding pressure and damage/potential.
Yes Damage scaling exists for Yangs super but I believe it exists for every Attack Yang does only, not his shadows it seems,
been using c.jab s.jab sweep recently. I see potential there - anyone else try it out? might be able to get a safe jump out of it… Seems to cross up all the time if you use just two jabs, might need to do more than just two.
Maybe s.strong, s.jab, sweep? Not sure if that even works, will try that out tonight.
In any case, I like the point blank, untechable knockdown that it gives. on certain characters I don’t like using the rolling kick ender, since if you try doing a cross-up followup it gets kind of wonky. on other characters it seems a lot better to use the rolling kick.
Also, jimmy told me about the slashx2 fadc launch jump late fierce/rh in the corner. that thing is pretty effective once you reach a wall since you can just walk under them [and then back again] and it gets pretty tricky. You can get an ambiguous crossup situation from it. Of course you can get SF4’d randomly, but that’s part of the game.
Crouching LIGHT kick lowers your hitbox under viper’s burning kicks, and presumably other things.
It’s pretty awesome.
Being able to combo to sweep is pretty boss, yeah. Anything that makes your opponent stay down, and stay close is a good thing.
I would put money on this working.
At release I tried doing st.mp, st.lp, cr.mk xx whatever, but the cr.mk just barely didn’t reach.
Sweep is definitely longer reach, so I assume this works.
tried s.strong, s.jab, sweep a couple times, but it missed. Seems like it’s character specific if you can do it at all. I tried it on dee jay I think.
jabs into sweep seems to be very, very good. on characters like boxer, after jab x3 , sweep things can get fairly tricky. I went for a crossup, and it seems to land perfect everytime, and I also tested out short divekick, whiffs right in front of boxer. probably different for other characters, but still. I’m fairly sure it does less than the rolling kick ender, but to me it seems to be even more useful, since the rolling kick ender means that if you do a regular jump-in as a follow up, it’s practically ALWAYS a crossup, which isn’t tricky at all. of course, there are instances where you’re pretty far and it becomes a regular jump-in, but it’s not that ambiguous [usually].
seems if you can eyeball it, you can make the jumpin either safe or at least ambiguous. possibly both? don’t know yet.
I haven’t done enough testing, but I know that if you try doing cross-up jump forward on sagat after the rolling kick, you get DPed for free. the sweep ender might solve that problem.
Needs more testing for sure, but the prospects seem pretty good.
maybe you should make the match-up thread lol
All I want is Capcom to stop trolling and give us a date for console AE. I’m switching to Yang for his mix up game and pretty ultras XD
Okay, gotta ask, why are people saying that Yang’s mixups are better than Yun’s?
What tool am I not seeing?
Hmm yeah I’m confused at that as well. Yang’s mixups are good, but Yun’s are clearly better - he doesn’t even need meter to land them. In addition to that, he has a better chance of landing it through the air since his divekick is much faster.
I think Yangs mix up game is very good, you can Fadc HP slashes into st. mk jump cancel into fierce and then from there you can either teleport to the otherside, dive kick, or hit confirm… after playing yang for awhile his cr. mk lk teleport is pretty tricky… you can either lk dp, or command grab, hit confirm… but i need to know if its safe… was doing this on other yun players…