I haven’t touched, or played against Yun lately due to the floods, but I’m confused as to what different mixups Yun even has outside of divekicks into 50/50s or command grabs. He can’t change sides without command grab, he can’t FADC a fast invincible move, and his palms are slower.
Honestly, I see more Yun’s get their mixups blocked than Yang - and when they do land, the reward is mediocre. c.lk -> c.lp -> s.lp -> s.mp -> special does pretty pisspoor damage, and doesn’t even allow an untechable knockdown. Meterless, their mixup options are basically the same, right? Though it is theoretically easier for Yun to land them due to his divekicks. When Yun does get meter though, what mixup options are actually available to him? I know shoulder and lunge punch can be FADCed, but I’m not sure of the frame advantage on those things - are they even worth it?
Obviously, both the twins have good mixups, but what actually makes Yun’s better? There could be something I’m missing here.
Yun’s HK DP positions him in perfect position for okizeme. IMO Yun has a better oki game but I can’t really say that he has better mix ups overall. They’re just different.
Different? Personally, I’m not sure there’s much of a difference, coming from the perspective of the opponent. As the opposing player, I don’t fear Yun’s mixup as much, mainly because I see that most of the time, his 50/50s don’t lead to a lot of damage. Yun needs to start combos with c.mp to get beefy damage, but the problem is that move is complete shit to work with, so you need to land it from a counter-hit setup, command grab or crossup divekick. You can’t really poke with it. It has no range, even less than his c.jab.
Yang can do pretty much the same things that Yun can, but doesn’t need to try crossing up the opponent with his slower dive kicks. As long as you can read the divekicks well, most characters can deal with it pretty well, since it loses to a lot of stuff.
I still feel they’re pretty much the same regarding mixups. Yun gets no damage off his 50/50s without taking a big risk, Yang at the least can get untechable knockdowns, and has safer outcomes that come off of many of the same moves Yun uses.
I guess we’ll be able to really tear these two apart in four or five months time when the DLC comes. Till then, I’m still calling it a draw.
How often [and why] do you guys opt for HP Slashes > FADC > cl.mk launch reset? Are there any good mix ups post launch? Post reset?
I never really opt for that reset mainly because I go for hp slashes > FADC > cl.mp > cr.mk xx hp slashes. Extra damage and the solid push back to get me out of the corner and/or push opponent closer into the corner. But even then, I only use that when I feel the damage is worth it. Otherwise I save meter for FADC U1 and/or Super.
Has anyone tried or thought of fucking around with Yangs air TC (j.mk > dive kick) as an air to air or a reset off cl.mk? I think I’ve seen it done once as an air to air and basically resets the opponent as Yang dive kicks straight down while the opponent is still in the air.
Might be worth looking into. Could potentially be a nice way to set up ambiguous off screen shenanigans? I think it’ll work better as a reset off cl.mk.
Just some theory fighter. If I get the chance, I’ll try it out.
Has anyone translated this page for you guys yet? I haven’t seen one, if not I can do it in a bit.
Edit:
Just getting the specific details, not so much the explanations.
*Yun’s Raigekishuu (dive kick)
-Unusually small hitbox, unusually large hurtbox
-Lots of ways to set it up and land it, but easily beaten by counterattacks
-Recommend light attacks and medium attacks with good hitboxes for use against the dive kick
-Hit around the opponent’s head: approximately minus 4-8 on block
-Hit around the opponent’s waste: approx. -3 to even on block
-Hit around the opponent’s feet: approx. even to +4 on block
*Yun suggested combos
cr.LP -> s.LP -> s.LK -> s.MP xx HP Lunge Punch - 187 damage 286 stun
-cr.LP is 3f startup, combo to push toward corner
cr.MP, s.MP xx HK Upkicks - 222 damage 340 stun
-s.MP is cancelable near or far
EX Lunge Punch -> U1 - 440 damage 200 stun
-more difficult to land midscreen
*Yang’s Seiei Enbu
-regular hit, 10f interval, 2 illusion hits
-regular hits still have their properties
-exceptions: some moves like s.HP and cr.HP had damage changed on 1 hit (somewhat unclear on this line)
-illusion hits do 1/4 damage and no stun, always hit mid
-illusion FA lvl 3 is blockable, grabs won’t hit
-you can get a lot of damage at the start of combos, recommends comboing into a knockdown and aiming for a second one
*Yang suggested combos
cr.LK, s.LP, cr.MK xx HP slashes - 199 damage 323 stun
-cr.LK is 3f startup, cr.LP is 4f startup
-recommends using roll kick instead of slashes for okizeme depending on situation
command grab, close s.MP xx slashes - 195 damage 246 stun
-Yang has 7f window after command grab
-cr.MK / cl.MK / cl.HP are other options
cr.MK xx HP slashes x2 FADC U1 - 439 damage 190 stun
-U2 instead of U1 works
Mainly was at Round1 but it looks like it’s going to be AI from now on since there is always something wrong with the machines at Round 1 and it only costs a token at AI. I was there all night yesterday but I didn’t play much Yang.
judging from the numbers in that link, yang does a pretty surprising amount of stun for his B&B. That’s pretty good… too bad that combo allows them to recover that stun from running.
Also, who said that the twins have the same divekick clearance? from the games I’ve played and even the videos I’ve seen, Yun looks like he’s clearly able to divekick much lower, in addition to being faster.
I wonder how much EX slashes add to stun? that’d be interesting to see. also, divekicks look like a really stupid idea against anyone with a 360 now, especially with numbers backing it up