What you just described is one of the biggest fundamental issues with this game and a major reason you see so many timeouts. Most characters have almost nothing reliable to mixup with and throws are just too slow. Alpha counters compound this by getting them off you if you do happen to get scared. So far the only offense I’ve really seen that there is to be scared of is Rufus.
It more or less the same tools from SF4, not so many changes here. The main way to deal damage in SF game is with the oki, so even a throw, with the guaranteed knockdown will net you oki option for big damage, and overall snowball affect.
Here all oki game is much harder as you need to predict where your opponent will be before you can start applying your oki. This greatly reduce the offence, until people will figure out ways to overcome this. (option selects, air tech etc…).
What do you guys feel are Jin’s weaknesses?
A good reversal? ^
Poor pokes in general. Far standing HK is slow. Far standing MK lacks range. Crouching HK, MP are kinda deceiving in that their range is actually shorter than the animation makes it look.
Generally I feel that Jin excels at fighting up-close, or really far away. At mid-range his options are pretty poor, and very often find myself waiting for my opponent to give me an opening (so that I can react with a SS, a jump-in, or punish whiffed normals) at this range.
Jin’s reversal is his Mental Alertness into MP/Swaying Willow. Up to 9 invincibility frames, 100 damage on hit, is safe on block (-3 with pushback), and on counter-hit leads to a freaking full combo.
I use it a lot.
How do you use it effectively? Most of the time my attacks or stance change will get stuffed when I try that.
The stance shouldn’t get stuffed since I’m pretty sure it immediately has 10 frames of invincibility. The reversal is good against characters that stay on the ground, try to frame trap you or walkup jab pressure (like Rolento, Hugo, Steve and so on) it’s also great to use against Tekken characters who are being played with predictable strings, like for instance a Heihachi always going into his overhead combo string, activate it then and get a free stagger combo.
That being said, it’s garbage against aerial/divekick characters like Rufus, Lili, etc. It also loses to throws needless to say.
So Kazuya was just found out to have his true EWGF from tekken, and just like Tekken, it wasn’t listed in the command list. It’s a just frame enhanced version for those who don’t know that has basically the same properties as the EX with 20 more damage in fact.
[media=youtube]mPtYzoANCZw[/media]
Now, I know this is Kazuya tech but the other characters who had this in Tekken were Heihachi, Devil Jin and Jin; Jin had an extra frame of leniency to do his in tradeoff to it definitely being worse. But still, has anyone tried to do it very specifically as such? This would be great for Jin if it could be used as a good universal reversal, but who knows.
Yeah, the stance has 10 frames of invincibility, but swaying willow doesn’t.
It says the video is private.
I wonder if jin has something like this in sfxt… I’m not all that familiar with tekken so what is the difference in input to kazuya’s EWGF and his true EWGF
In Tekken, the input for WGF was forward, neutral, down, down-forward and then press 2. The input for EWGF was forward, neutral, down, down-forward and press 2 on the exact frame / at the exact same time that you press the down-forward. Its the same in this.
Yes, the above is right. He had a regular WGF, but if you pressed the punch button on the exact frame, you got the unlisted EWGF, which was one of the best moves in Tekken.
Now that I think about it, i’m pretty sure Kazuya and Devil Jin both had a 2 frame window to get it, whereas Jin had a 3 frame window and Heihachi only had 1. But I’m pretty sure Heihachi’s was the best and Jin’s was the worst.
Yes, but Swaying Willow starts up in 5 frames. It’s good enough to be used as a counter-poke and lets you run away from ambiguous cross-ups all day. The bigger issue, really, is that it’s not throw-invulnerable.
Was there a point you were trying to make? A certain scenario where MA MP/Mental Alertness into Swaying Willow wouldn’t work well as a reversal option, perhaps?
I use it pretty much like a parry in 3rd Strike, or a side-step in CvS2 S groove (or was it N groove?). Basically any time I feel like my opponent’s throwing something out at me, if I’m already holding down-back, I’ll tap two kicks, wait for a split-second to pass, and press MP to return the favour.
Versus Heihachi, every time your opponent does a forward+LP and go for the high/low mix-up with MP/HP, you can use MA MP to dodge both Heihachi’s high and low options, strike him in the chest for 100 damage (or at least make him block), and turn the tables around.
Better yet, many Heihachi players like to go for the cr.LP, forward+LP, MP/HP string. If you predict that the forward+LP is coming, you can use MA to dodge the attack, and MP to counter-hit Heihachi’s MP/HP follow-up.
As GuyMcPerson already pointed out, MA MP does not work Rufus/Lili dive kicks, and generally any incoming attack that has a lot of active frames. So, versus M.Bison it won’t work against his cr.HK slide, but it will work for head-stomps.
K guys i finally got it on video… like i mentioned before … JIN has an EX Special Step… and the best part is tht it costs no meter… Skip to 00:37 …
[media=youtube]R1masH55PZY[/media]
Note: Its me versus the CPU in training mode on Hardest difficulty… the CPU jin does the ex ss…
Edit: I’ve also put in a pause… you can clearly see that there isn’t any meter loss after the Ex Special Step…
That’s interesting…what could the input for it possibly be?
i tried the EWGF but didn’t work…
Ewgf wont work with jin because when his special step happens it takes 9 frames until a move will come out. EWGF is on frame 1 of kazuyas mist step. As for the ex mist step idk???
Edit: I went ahead and sent max a message on youtube about this hopefully he gets it!
yeah did tht aswell… waiting anxiously for his reply…
What should Jin do against turtlers? I’m having a lot of trouble against characters like Guile. If I stay back, his zoning game beats mine. If I try to go in with SS or attempt to jump in, I eat a flash kick. What am I doing wrong? My other teammate is Kazuya, so I’m suffering the same problem even if I switch teammates. Thanks for any input guys.
Well, I don’t know about Kazuya’s, but Jin’s SS is back dash cancellable. Maybe a way around him is to try to time a back dash after SS past the sonic booms, to bait out a flash kick?
Make him come to u… dont forget that jin also has fireballs… if hes constantly throwing out sonic booms… just absorb 1 using Power stance and and then throw a lp fireball beofre his next sonic boom… or just SS to go under it… his SS mp has more range then the rising uppercut…