Jin Kazama thread

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
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Jin doesn’t have any great on reaction anti-air, but if you can read your opponent, MA xx lk is a great anti-air. It’s also very hard to punish since it’s recovery is so quick.

Fireballs are pretty good anti-airs too… I’ve disgraceful how many Jins i’ve seen in videos play him like he’s fucking Kazuya. Quit trying to rush hoes down, sure he’s got some decent options up close as well as some strong close normals/frametraps, but his strength, to me, is his great keep-away/zoning.

Anyways, does anyone know which has more advantage, shun masatsu xx CADC (?) or cr.mp CADC? I use it occasionally in rushdown mixups but I want to know which one is really better. It seems cr.mp would be better looking at raw frame data, but with all the recovery frames being dropped from shun masatsu, it’s hard to tell.

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Yeah. It really sucks that throw ranges in this game are awful, too.

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Fuck that. I’m grateful that now you actually have to be strategic with throws, and that mashing it from more than a jab away results in losing half your life. Fucking love it.

I’m sorry man, due to the invincibility of MA, the pay off from landing the kick, and the difficulty opponents have punishing it, i think that MA LK is AMAZING. lately i’ve just been doing MA from about 1/3 screen away at junctions so after block strings, after back dashing, after throw breaking ETC. You’d be surprised how many people jump after junctions like these and get smaked for 300 damage for their troubles. I love this thing man lol.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Jin is no Kazuya up close, without the consistent close range High Low Game it should be obvious, but yeah we still see mad rush down jins get blocked and throw broken all day. I don’t think he’ll stay like that. I really think Kazuya is more ken and Jin is more ryu.

Thing is, kazyua can’t really zone anyone out. Given that jin has FBs, charge FBs, and MA LK, it can be dificult to get in on jin before the opponent has lost half their life on their first character. Kazuya is good opening up characters up close, but from half screen or more away from, say, Vega, what will he do? I think the gameplay will evolve properly, but we’re only in the second week so i’m sure there’s more to come. I’m really enjoying frustrating the hell out of people… especially Hugos, giefs, and other characters that have a dificult time getting around Jins zoning options.

Damn i didn’t bring my notes to work. I’ve been doing this a lot though, mixed in with a backdash cancelled SS which is very difficult to do in the startup. If no one knows i’ll post it later this evening.

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it seems tht JIN has a hard time face fireball characters… guile , RYU, ken … since he cant cancel into another SS… any ideas??

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but jin has a fireball.

he also has an invincible move that he can canel into a fireball.

he also has a move that flies past fireballs

Maybe i’m missing something.

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Uh…Jump? Maybe?

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So… are you agreeing with me? Not to boast… but I can usually read pretty easily when people are gonna jump, especially when they’re up close, so Jin’s anti-air in that regard is great. But when they’re already in the air and you’re not ready, he doesn’t have great options.

I meant Jin… of course Kazuya can’t zone out anyone lol. The point I was making is that every Jin player i’ve seen on video is playing him rushdown as if they were playing Kazuya. Jin has similar rushdown options to Kazuya except Kazuya’s are all better (in tradeoff to virtually no long range game).

Anyways, Jin is great against fireball characters. I haven’t played too many shotos but Jin shuts down a lot of zoners. Learn to use your powerstance to absorb their projectiles and retaliate. You have to play his fireball war differently but when you learn how, it’s great.

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maybe 50%? I seriously think his anti air is underrated. No one’s learned to use c.HP or s.LK properly. No one’s really using LP fireball as anti air yet. i mean it is good against mid range jumps, MA LK has an enormus hitbox, and will tag pretty much any attack. Also, ive found funny enough, that at anyone jumps from anywhere, use the appropriate EX fireball (if they jump from midscreen, use LM and from full screen use MH) and they’ll get tagged with both, and you have time to juggle with another H fireball lol. OH NO HUGO NOW YOU’RE ALL THE WAY OVER THERE NOW WHAT BUDDY WHAT U GONE DO HK AIR GRAB TO CLOSE DISTANCE THAT’S COOL BUT IT’LL COST YOU 400 LIFE WHEN YOU LAND. Or of course they can try to maneuver the obstacle course again… materializing fireballs… its brilliant! no trajectory, no planning lol. Instant fireball. I love it. Sorry off topic.

As far as when they’re already in the air, it really depends on the range. I still think PS, MA>MP or just MA>MP works well here. otherwise backdash, block and alpha counter, or actually i found that Team super (whatever its called) works AMAZINGLY if you don’t mind using the three bars. Most of the time you’re looking at a guaranteed 500 something cause they’re jumping like a dumbass. That shit has a huge, wide and high hitbox have you seen it lol?? People will learn to not jump at Jin. Just like it took people 2 years to learn not to jump at makoto in SFIV lol.

Now here I was actually agreeing with you 100%. maybe i didn’t get my point across. TL:DR - whatever you said, that’s right lol.

Again, agree all day. IMO I can’t see anyone winning a FB war with jin due to powerstance, SS, and jins FB. Maybe Sagat, but only if he can keep his distance (good luck) or get the proper rhythem to not get hit by jins PSxxFireballs. Also, once jin gets in range of SS>LP goodbye half health to anyone chucking plasma. Even akuma/ibuki have a hard time with SS so far as far as I know. Hmmm, is anyone playing Akuma? Havne’t seen a good one yet. I’d like to find one to test some tech out.

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I don’t know, I don’t feel Akuma is that strong in this game due to not having any consistent vortex setups, and air to airs being deadly, but that’s for their forum to discuss I guess.

Anyways, I feel like Jin is really overlooked/underestimated as it is now. I’m not trying to boast but at our last night I was basically running a train on everyone with Jin/Raven, and while I do think Raven is overall better than Jin, I had Jin on point and was basically ocving most everyone. His zoning/keep away game is great, and he’s got some deadly tools up close too. I had people crying he was top tier when the night was over lol.

I’m gonna try lk as an anti-air, see how it goes.

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I think Jin has a better close-range game than Kazuya. He has +Frames on more normals than Kaz does, and his overhead is so amazing. If the overhead hits, easy combo into any kind of cancel you want, if it’s blocked perform his 5 hit string for a whopping +4 on block into frametraps…so it’s a win-win. Compared to Kaz: his qcb+P two-hit overhead is very unsafe, and b+HK overhead is unsafe as well. At the highest potential Kaz is probably better because of perfect EWGF combos for 500 damage meterless (which are also safe on block), but Jin in my opinion is still better up close because of an easily applied, frame advantageous offense.

On the topic of Jin vs. balls of fire

I wouldn’t recommend using Power Stance as the focal point of an anti-fireball strategy. It’s good with situational use, but he takes damage during it. Try these options to safe your life bar from unnecessary pain.

-Retaliate with your own Jin orbs, but not in the generic trade 1 for 1 sense. If you place one correctly, your opponent has no choice but to either jump over it or shoot their own to negate it. Once you get a fireball on screen first, you dictate the pace of the match. Here is the option tree if YOU place one of his awesome delayed fireballs on screen:

*(fireball on screen), they jump, you AA
*(fireball on screen), they pause and fireball to negate, you jump/walk/SS towards and try to punish OR move forward to gain better positioning
*(fireball on screen), they do nothing and wait, you walk/SS towards them to push them towards the corner

Alternatives: charge the fireball input and make it look like you’re going to shoot one, but only briefly. Dash when forward you think your opponent has visually confirmed this. If they’ve been conditioned by your solid fireball game, they’ll probly want to jump once they see you about to shoot. You AA! If they do nothing, you’ve just gained slight positional advantage with your CADC forward.

-Jin’s super BODIES fireballs and has ridiculous range (it begins with two medium range projectiles, and he’s invincible too)

-Walk forward and block a few. Once you’re into SS~LP range your opponent has to be careful. If the Ryu (for example) likes to CADC fake a lot at this range, just check with SS~backdashes to keep yourself safe and possibly force a whiff. If you get a good read on poorly placed fireballs go for SS~LP, st.MK xx SS~LP [TC] into your next character for big damage.

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kool… i’ll try tht… thx guyss…

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How do you guys deal with grapplers with Jin? I’m completely new to the Tekken characters (having only really played Street fighter), but I’m really enjoying Jin and Kazuya. Grapplers are one of my biggest troubles right now. How do I approach these matchups? Thanks.

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dont drop combos and i got to test if MA will make grapplers whiff if it does Jin president!!! oh and well placed fireballs help alot.

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Raynex’s theories about fireballs are nice. I find it particularly irritating when I try to incorporate all this stuff, though, and they just jump repeatedly, lol.

Like, I’ll try and do SS backdash, or CADC fireballs, or whatever to try and condition people, but all they do is hold up-forward. They’ll jump while I’m doing SS backdash, so I have to block, etc.

I know the key to beating these people is to just walk forward into range and do nothing until they jump, then MA LK them, but… it’s not as fun when there’s no mindgame involved.

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Grapplers are free for the most part to Jin… just zone them out.

If people are jumping at you like leap frogs, then you can anti-air them for free. MA Lk has virtually no recovery anyways so even if you guess wrong on their jump in you’re pretty safe. Quit respecting your opponent until they earn it.

One trick I’ve been working on today, well as everyone knows SS can go into backdash, and I’ve known for a while that it doesn’t count as your real backdash, so you can essentially do two backdashes in rapid succession after SS. It doesn’t really have any application imo full screen, but a nice thing to do if you’re cornered/in close range of a grappler or something of the sort, is to do a block string into SS then double back dash. This creates like 2/3rd screen distance and allows you to get back into zoning range from a block string. Especially nice way to get out of the corner.

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Awesome thanks for the advice guys. Off to training mode I go :slight_smile:

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Something strange happened to me just now. I connected with a j. HK against a ryu who blocked it, and I then started Shun Matsu. Now that’s (according to the guide) +8 on block and then 7 startup, but the dude still managed to dragon punch me out of the 2nd attack. A normal dragon punch. Does DP have full invulnerability at some point?

Edit: If it does, I vote for for that invulnerability to be shifted around. But that’s just me.

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See, when I saw that in the guide, I didn’t get it. But, I’m pretty sure that frame advantage is from right when you hit them, so it depends on how high in your jump arc your attack landed. If you hit them at the top of your jump then i’m sure the advantage will be less.

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Also, on block that is a 1f link. so it is possible that you mistimed it.

For a better block string, go into c.MP after j.HK. It’s air tight, and you can go into Shun Masatsu from there (although I like to do c.MP x2 and then either s.MK>SS LLP, MA MK, or fLK…)

On another note, yesterday, i did jump HK (blocked) MA on a RYU because I thought He was gonna DP. He did c.HK instead and I pressed MP to stun his ass. shit feels awesome. I’m starting to think that MA is his best move. Between that, PS, and Alpha Countering, i find that people are learning not to press buttons when next to jin which is a REALLY good thing becasue now JIN CAN MASH DEM BUTTONS SON and Jin’s buttons are soooo good lol. I think once the FGC learns that jin basically has a parry for everything you can do, he’s gonna seriously heat up the tiers. And the delicious tears will follow…

Oh yeah, also i’ve been using a lot of Floe’s c.LP x2, c.MK SS LP… I dont’ know why, but A LOT of people stop holding down after c.LP x2. Go figure. They end up eating SSLP>s.MK, SSMP as well. Not sure why it keeps happening but meh.

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A though about his offence, when you regard his offence as lacking against someone who comfortable with sit and block, what would you do with other character in that matter. I mean beside those dive character with the retarded offence, most of the cast relay on tick throw, bating cr.lp, or surprise slow overheads.