>PerfectLegend
Why do you play DOA4 when you hate the game?
Because he thinks the previous itterations of the game were good, and there’s money in this one so it’s worth hanging unto untill DoA5.
Exactly and the previous renditions “are” good.
Keyword there, there’s nothing stopping us from playing previous iterations.
Yea beside the people who don’t want to play them.
I am tired of 10 man tournaments.
DOA4:
-Throw escapes which are useless
-Sabaki’s which are useless
-Positioning which is useless, A. because you can hardly move in the first place, and B. because what reward do you get for it? I would say that knocking someone down a level is the only one, but I won’t even mention that as it doesn’t kill opponents anymore…wtf!?
-Strategy…useless. Want to create a set-up using the environment? Too bad, you can’t move properly. Want to put someone into a frame trap/s and try to control the pace of the game? Too bad, no advantage on block. Want to set-up a decent oki strategy? Too bad, wake-up kicks own you, and they own you too much…you can get counter hit if you fail, and the opponent can get up with the advantage of having you in stun. And there’s more…
-Knowledge…useless. Why have knowledge when you can just, guess? Knowledge of actual moves are pretty irrelevant, and it’s all knowledge that just passes to you as common sense.
-Guard breaks, useless. “Hey I broke you guard! Err, so what do I get for that again?”. Seriously, most guard breaks are slow, and you get nothing for them?
-Blocked someones heavily disadvantageous attack, and you want to retaliate with another attack e.g launcher? Nah, you can only punish them with fast throws that do little to no damage and almost all of them don’t even give you decent set-ups.
-I can see your attack, I wanna dodge and retaliate with an attack of mine. Dammit, I can’t move properly; oh shit, your move tracked me like a damn stalker and you HI-COUNTER STUN me! Fantastic I say!
-Ah, he countered, now it’s time to atta-WTF it was still active?!
-I knocked you over a partition! Oh wait, damn. You can just counter as soon as you land on the other side, and if I jump over for the follow up you’re at the advantage!? Ok, now no one wants to jump over; let us proceed to walking around it…
-Man, touching you is like touching hot water, I’m afraid to do it for too long or else I’ll get hurt for it! Putting your finger in hot water is just like stunning or getting your attacks blocked on an opponent, you feel the urge to pull out if you’re in there for too long.
Seriously, DOA4 is awful.
then there’s ryu’s ridiculous ability to fucking knock you over one, and then WARP BEHIND YOU THROUGH THE PARTITION AND RESTUN YOU, then fifty/fifty you BACK over the partition, repeat, on gambler’s paradise - i think Hayate can do it too
I’m pretty sure you can counter before they can do it but I haven’t tested it, but you don’t see it in matches anymore. At the least though, it’s a safe way through a partition for for Ryu and Hayate.
Silly thing is, it took a very long time before people actually realized that you can counter after being knocked over 
Aion, not to be rude but everything you wrote besides from Sabaki’s being pretty much useless is wrong.
I hate DOA4. From the day it came out I have hated it. I have always, always believed that DOA3.1 was the best in the series. The best. I wrote what I wrote because at the time none of the DOA4 players had commented on his questions, and as a site admin I have to try to defend the decisions that Itagaki made. I don’t care to bring up that thread but I know my last sentence even shows me mention I don’t like the game. Itagaki’s only sense of balance is to take away anything that goes outside the RPS system every single second. Hell, the ability to hold off the wall/partition so fast was because of the Hayabusa/Hayate trap mentioned above (which can no longer be done because of the window to hold after the patch).
However, people like PL like to flip-flop, one month he’s winning tournaments so DOA4 is awesome and thus 3.1 sucks, the next he’s losing tournaments so DOA4 sucks and 3.1 is better he says. Give him anywhere from three days to a month and he’ll change his mind.
Of course, being a site admin I am required to support any Dead or Alive competition, if there are players willing to show up to a tournament, get together, have some fun then I’m all for that. My personal beliefs on the game won’t stop 20 -some people from meeting up and playing it, so why should it matter if they want to spend their money on a game you all think is trash? It’s not your money.
no man, i’m quoting master on this now, him and kakita pretty much developed this if i remember. you have to counter so early or slow escape STUPIDLY fast to even be able to block ( because what he’s doing essentially is knocking you over with PPPK then holding 6 for ninpo ). and if he knows you’re gonna counter, guess what, you just earned one free izuna drop / restun from a hit at a different height. and if you just don’t tech, you get forced teched and put back into the partition stun and have to RE-slow escape, FUN FOR EVERYONE WHAT A GREAT GAME.
then there’s that retarded camera warp where if you teleport opposite to the way someone is walking to force a mis-block, the retardedness of 1P2K camera switch / anti-side tech, and god i could go on forever.
suffice to say ninjas = brokeshit
Kakita hasn’t played since the patch came out. Your information is outdated. Again, when the patch came out Itagaki made it so the Hold can be performed the moment they hit the ground, instead of after the crawl back to standing up. Even if Hayabusa or Hayate teleported, the opponent knocked over the partition has recovered from the hold. In the original version the weren’t able to hold until the moment the teleport worked. This also was affecting the wall where characters could get guaranteed launchers before they could hold if their attacks were fast enough. The same applies for the ropes in the wrestling ring, characters like Bass’ 66F+P would knock them into the ropes and get some advantage as the person is forced to stumble to the middle of the ring. However, they can hold the moment they leave the ropes thus nullifying any point to doing said move.
well now i’m mildly curious as to how outdated my info is and why they didnt fix all the other stupid shit with the patch - does Christie still have that retarded unblockable after dokuja fujin? ( she was really the only other character i liked cause she fights like Lion Rafale kinda sorta )
Actually, everything he wrote is correct, depending on how you look at it.
If you disagree with what he said about positioning, he is simply talking about the lack of overall movement speed being a hindrance to being able to actually move. In essence, he wants movement for something besides just moving around the stage at snail pace.
As for guard breaks, he is talking about stuff like Kokoro 88p, which is minus on block, but still “breaks your guard”. Read over the things he wrote carefully. Not an error among them.
A lot more moves would be considered unsafe then. Because non command are the fastest throws in the game. The little that is there is very useful.
So you’re saying you’d be more comfortable with your back to a wall, partition, car, fall, etc. . .? Yeah OK. You’re given enough movement to escape big damage from the danger zones, and that’s far from useless.
And yet there a players that can constantly win at high levels. How does that work?
And yet there a players that can constantly win at high levels. How does that work?
They do enough damage to force your opponent to think twice before using an unsafe string.
Crush 'em. As a Helena player it’s easier for me to say that. But as far as dodge and retaliate are concerned, crushes cover both.
You could not go after them and wait for them to come to you. Don’t go rushing into things if you can’t handle the situation. 
Then launch them as soon as possible if you’re unable to condition your opponent properly.
I’m aware DOA4 isn’t the best thing, hell I also prefer DOA3 to it, but it’s a far cry from some of these exaggerations.
Then tell me why please.
Haven’t some of you guys met Itagaki, and doesn’t Team Ninja check DOACentral on occassion?
Guys, just make a beefy, balanced and fun change list. Then try and convince Itagaki to borrow Sega-AM2’s play testers.
Some people believe the reason DOA4 is the way it is, is because he did use those testers.
He told me that the testers used for DOA4 weren’t necessarily The Best DOA players in Japan. That they were, “People who are good at balancing fighting games.” The rumor is that it was a group of VF players.
When pushed on about 3.1 his comment was, “I made DOA3 to be a single-player game.” That’s why there are no costumes, he patches and upgrades the game to new areas with a huge change over DOA2, and he throws a $5000 national Dead or Alive tournament. Yeah, single-player 
.
What I get from my conversations with him (which are few and far between) is that he wants it to be that RPS system constantly, where outthinking your opponent gives you the win and knowledge of the game doesn’t guarantee you it. Pick-up and play. I just can’t stand that style. Unfortunately, the owner of the site is a supporter of said style and he’s the one with all the contacts.
-Throw escapes which are useless
How is escaping around 50dmg useless?
People that don’t buffer a throwescape into their 5f punishable moves suffer damage. And DoA really wouldn’t work with a VF throw system since throws is basically the only guaranteed damage to punish with, imagine how strong counters would become if you also could bufffer a bunch of throwescapes into that.
-Sabaki’s which are useless
I agree, pretty much every sabaki except Lei Fang’s 236P is useless, and that’s a situational sabaki aswell that’s only useful against a very small portion of the cast.
However, if sabaki’s were as powerful as in VF the defensive player would always have the advantage over the offensive one, because we have instun counters.
-Positioning which is useless, A. because you can hardly move in the first place, and B. because what reward do you get for it? I would say that knocking someone down a level is the only one, but I won’t even mention that as it doesn’t kill opponents anymore…wtf!?
Positioning is important because there are so many dangerous elements in the game, and you don’t want to be exposed to this yourself.
Nobody tries to position themselves unless you’re a bit ranged, or during a knockdown. Also, knocking someone down a level is more a punishment half the time than a reward since you’ll have to guess between their rising kicks, unless it was a knockdown from a cliff. I use characters that can lock you against the wall and play a good oki of game on you where you actually have to guess what I’m going to do and rising kicks really won’t save you from it.
Not to mention I’ve got attacks that won’t let them slowescape the wall either.
-Strategy…useless. Want to create a set-up using the environment? Too bad, you can’t move properly. Want to put someone into a frame trap/s and try to control the pace of the game? Too bad, no advantage on block. Want to set-up a decent oki strategy? Too bad, wake-up kicks own you, and they own you too much…you can get counter hit if you fail, and the opponent can get up with the advantage of having you in stun. And there’s more…
Funny, how I seem to be knocking people into walls and keeping them there all the time to do what I stated earlier. Yes, there are hardly any frame traps in the game aside from Hitomi’s 2P against everyone, and Kokoro’s and Ayane’s 2P against some of the cast.
-Knowledge…useless. Why have knowledge when you can just, guess? Knowledge of actual moves are pretty irrelevant, and it’s all knowledge that just passes to you as common sense.
Knowledge turns guessing into prediction.
Knowledge let’s you use character specific tactics.
More knowledge will give you the edge over your opponent in every field, just see how far random countering gets you.
-Guard breaks, useless. “Hey I broke you guard! Err, so what do I get for that again?”. Seriously, most guard breaks are slow, and you get nothing for them?
**There are some guardbreaks that don’t give frameadvantage, and yes that sucks, but there are many that gives either frame advantage or unblockable hits. Kokoro 22/88P sidesteps AND guardbreaks AND is safe And only gives a slight disadvantge which means that your jab loses to theirs, but wins against their mids, however you are out of range of their jabs unless you jab yourself, the move also has the ability to knock into walls from far away and sidestep alot of moves hitting them in their back leading to guaranteed damage. Eliot’s 236K gives 10f of advantage on block and is hard to react too, especially since he’s got many different moves to pressure with from a distance. Kasumi’s and Christie’s charge attacks give enough frame advantage for jabs to become unblockable, Christie’s dokuja fujin 4P also gives a good amount of advantage. **
-Blocked someones heavily disadvantageous attack, and you want to retaliate with another attack e.g launcher? Nah, you can only punish them with fast throws that do little to no damage and almost all of them don’t even give you decent set-ups.
Use a stronger throw than your 7f then, I heard Spartans 12f throw does 70dmg, Hayabusa’s does 75, Eliot’s does 69 and 87 against walls.
Standing sweeps, as an example, are punishable with these throws.
-I can see your attack, I wanna dodge and retaliate with an attack of mine. Dammit, I can’t move properly; oh shit, your move tracked me like a damn stalker and you HI-COUNTER STUN me! Fantastic I say!
If you could see their attack, how come you didn’t counter/parry it?
I heard that counters do alot of damage and only have 1f startup.
Getting hi-counter blown pretty much only happens online since you won’t have enough time to block reactivley when your opponent does something.
-Ah, he countered, now it’s time to atta-WTF it was still active?!
If you noticed them countering, why didn’t you throw?
Nothing is more rewarding damage wise than punishing holds with throws, so basically you’re getting annoyed because you did the wrong thing.
-I knocked you over a partition! Oh wait, damn. You can just counter as soon as you land on the other side, and if I jump over for the follow up you’re at the advantage!? Ok, now no one wants to jump over; let us proceed to walking around it…
You do realize that if you jump over doing nothing but holding block, you are invulnerable to attacks?
-Man, touching you is like touching hot water, I’m afraid to do it for too long or else I’ll get hurt for it! Putting your finger in hot water is just like stunning or getting your attacks blocked on an opponent, you feel the urge to pull out if you’re in there for too long.
This is semi-true, it happens way more often that people try and counter a launch attempt every time rather than trying to counter moves used to build stun.
So it really isn’t as risky stunning someone as some people claim, just look at Hitomi/Leon/Zack, they can keep people in a stun game the whole match and they seldom get countered. While other characters like Ayane, Hayate, Hayabusa, Gen Fu etc. benefits more from going for a quick launch because their stungame is easier to deal with. Then there are those characters that can work both a quick launch or stun game like Kasumi/Eliot.
Edit: Now people may think I’m flip-flopping between loving and hating the game, but that’s not it.
It’s just that I knew that PL’s list would make people start hating on random things that really aren’t game breaking and can be dealth with. The other list which I previously wrote still stands aswell.