So lemme ask you Perfect…since I’m curious. Would it be worth it for anyone (myself even) to start getting good at DOA4 just for the sake of possibly winning money? Is it a long process and I’m guessing you’d have to spend money to travel a bit? Like if you know you could even be decent enough to make some sum of money if you went out to qualify. Probably more importantly I’m asking is if you are still competing in the DirecTV championships and if it’s still interesting to you?
I only competed in one DIrectTV tournament and that was CGI2 which was an invitational.
Now its league where you have to get “drafted” to one of the pro teams. They try to work it like the NBA.
Instead of positions they have 5 different games.
Counter strike, FIFA, DOA, and Project gotham racing but they break DOA up into two divisions. Male and Female.
In order to get drafted you have to perform well at the combine (their national tournament) and hope that you get drafted by one of the GM’s.
Is it worth it? Yes because you get paid a base salary of 30k and then if you are the top performer in your division you get to go to world finals and compete in the single competition for 5k.
If your team is godlike (all the people who play each game) you can win up to 500k which is split between 10 people and thats 50k a piece. However that portion of it you don’t really have any control over its just you have to do your part and hope your team does theirs.
What you pretty much can make yourself is 35k + any other tournament you may go to throughout the year.
In WCG you can make up to 20k with all the National tournaments and international tournaments thats if you win them all but I think they might take DOA out of the circuit this year.
Last year I didn’t go to the combine for CGS to try and get drafted cause I wasn’t too sure on how their contract worked for the players but I am going out this year for it.
So yea I will say its worth it however I refuse to ignore the problems with the game.
Now if only Xdest can see the light as well.
Nah Xdest LOVES doa4.
He plays that shit religiously online and think that there is nothing wrong with it online either.
I play more than DOA4. I just think it would be cool if you didn’t switch sides more than a confused bisexual.
I’ve tried to get the people at WCG to open up to any fighter that isn’t DoA. But every response I get is simply.
XX game is too hardcare and the audience won’t know whats going on
xx game doesn’t have pretty graphics.
So their solution was to take a game with practically no depth (because the audience can’t learn or anything), and plenty of eye candy and feature that (gotta be high def because now like 5% of the population has an HD set…).
read the linked thread
Dear god. It’s a damn shame when you’re top player points out how your game sucks, and it’s even worse when people ARGUE with him and don’t bring up valid points.
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Yea one of the guys (who is also posting in this thread) is like “space”
Yea sure if the back dash movement was faster like DOA3 or any regular fighting game I would space all fucking day. The only way to totally avoid a wake up kick you have to already be very far away from the opponent. If you stand next to them then try to back dash to trick them to whiff the shit isn’t possible and it will cause a guard stun if you aren’t blocking.
I tried to get into doa once, but there were a few general things I disliked about it.
well…actually you covered that part. How everything is a mind game. It’s like playing rock-paper scissors on an arcade stick.
Sure some say that the counter is overpowered, but really the counter is all the game has. even high level match vids shows players mashing the counter for dear life. I also found critical and stuns just stupid.
But I’m not an SRk lemming by any means; I played doa 2 for months and tried so hard to like it. but it’s all flash imo.
What games did you try to get them to open up to? Unfortunately games like 3rd Strike and ST just have like zero chance as of right now. I see no reason why they would opt not to have VF5 or Tekken 6 in the roster. I mean…it’s obvious that fighting games take longer to learn and get good at than say…Counter Strike but in all honesty…I can’t say I’ve ever had fun watching other people watch Counter Strike. You have to keep track of like 10 people playing at once and it takes away from the depth of the event IMO.
At least in a fighting game it’s just one person vs. the other person and you can clearly see who is getting their ass kicked. I mean you may not know all the details behind what is going on in a fighting game but to me what is happening is more clear than what is happening in a team game of Counter Strike. I just get tired of watching people shoot shit at each other from 9 different areas of a map. It’s just not spectator friendly IMO. Maybe the WCG have found a way to make it work but I can’t see it.
People say “stuns = frame adv on hit” yea but the opponent can escape it and deal damage to you no matter the advantage.
This is what made DOA3 and DOA2 good cause there were instances where you could be at an advantage and the opponent can’t counter.
Like in DOA3 you are constantly poking to get someone to whiff or you put them at a disadvantage with frame advantage. Then if they whiff you hit them into a wall for guaranteed UNESCAPEABLE damage.
No sir not in DOA4 anyone can get off the wall. Its so pointless for the wall to be in DOA4. Everyone mineswell play on tatami (stage with no environment)
And now in DOA4 the opponent gets 3 options when they tech off the wall.
3 Get up kicks that track if you tech off the wall and its a total guess and not only that you can’t punish them unless you use a hold.
In DoA3 all you had was a wall tech that put the attacker off axis if they tried to rush in more so you had to back away and relieve the pressure but you could then put more pressure on as soon as they finish teching.
In DoA2 you had no options when trying to get off the wall but there was no wall stun, but the attacker could keep mixing you up. All you could do was tech then block and guess.
Man I hate DOA4.
Thing is, most if not all games are “rock paper scissors.” RPS is at the most basic level of stuff, something is going to beat something that can lose to something else and so forth. The good games are the ones where you can make your opponent give up, respect, reduce, lose, or remove the options that beat your options, so you can win it. The great games do this based on advantages/disadvantages situations, whether that’s due to time, space or whatever shit like that.
All people have to do is understand that, and it makes it a lil bit better to understand how shit works, even if you don’t even play something. It’s a formula.
DOA4 never goes past the most basic level, because the same situation is presented to you over and over again with the reward/risk being extremely high everytime and often times more damage potential and options are given to the person at “disadvantage” over the person in the advantage position. I tried to play the game, and was even praising it at first, but once I figured this out I tried to inform those people at DOAC a year ago about how the game is trash but I got attacked and flamed.
No kidding, and now they’re saying the same thing.
I pretty much said any other fighting game would be fine. ST (linked to the crowd reactions at Evo West this year), 3s, MvC2 (though I hate that game), GG, SC, Tekken, VF, SF4.
But their main concern is how will the techs be able to prodcast video feed from a game that isn’t HD… I’m like you buy a fucking upscaler.
And their belief that the audience who doesn’t play games won’t understand whats going on (though I honestly can’t see that many non gamers watching a video game league but maybe thats just me) though I offered a few ideas to remedy it, they didn’t want to take the time to do it.
But from the staffers responses, they believe that for their format and concerns that DoA4 is the best and they expect it to be around for a long time (until DoA5 comes out) and that DoA could be the gateway for the audience into the fighting game scene.
that’s exactly what i mean. “this beats this” is the basic of any fighting game. throw beat blocking overheads beat ducking, sweeps beat high blockers. Basic shit.
But that’s exactly what it is. basic shit.
Outside of counters, the only way to avoid unblock ables in doa is to either jump ove them or duck them. So, if that said unblock able is high, the enemy will either duck or counter it everytime. ESPECIALLY if that said unblock able has retarded range and speed. (jan lee’s dragon kick in doa2)
That’s what happens when all you gave is basic aka RPS shit. No options. the game design forces to do shit the same way every time
Dude…there is only one unblockable in the game and in DOA4 it was toned down greatly (you can punish jann lee after he hits u with it…)
Actually two. Bass has the other one which is like 70 frame start up time and its high
Rock, paper, scissors is the most basic foundation for strategy in fighting games, except we get attack, throw, and block. Attacks beat out throws but loses to blocks, throws beat out blocks but loses to attacks, and blocks beat out attacks but loses to throws.
Actually, I don’t have a working Xbox, and haven’t for months. I also hate online and used to complain about it all the time about a year ago.
As well, I’ve been barely playing the game before that because there’s really no one challenging to play online (rightfully so, it’s trash.), and I can’t travel either way.
In my spare time, what am I doing? Back to what I was doing years before before DOA4 Online - playing DOA3.1’s CPU/Sparring (it’s fun as hell.), and other miscellaneous games. I just don’t like mass flaming as a way to change anything, so I try to find solutions otherwise - just like you. I actually said most of the exact same points 2 weeks ago (http://www.doacentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=414766&highlight=#414766 , bottom post). Do you think that getting mad about it and trying to stage a revolution is going to help? It isn’t.
We need to use DOAC’s/the DOA community’s contacts as we were talking about a few weeks ago - have a nice list/letter, and try to get it to Team Ninja in any way possible.
I now that was the only unblockable. I was just making an example.
I’ll just give my opinion here rather than on DoAC since I think I might get more discussion here that’s worth while.
This post became longer than I expected it to be, but it should be a good read atleast.
**
Wakeupkicks:**
I actually don’t find them as bad as you do PL.
However I agree with you on the point that they are too hard to punish when you make them whiff, unless you’re using a character with a powerpunch move like Hitomi, Ein, Hayate. And if you do time it wrong, most people will be countering mid punch and landing a HCH on you for that, which really sucks.
But yeah, most characters can whiff punish them, but how difficult it is varies from easy to damn hard.
The invulnerability of them and 3 heights is stupid, it can be dealt with by getting away from them in most cases, but there are certain situations where you cannot get away from them, like when YOU knock someone down a set of stairs or use certain attacks/throws to hit them into walls, this is something which is stupid and should be fixed. The offensive player should not be put in a disadvantagous situation like this for no reason. Sometimes this is match decisive since stairs don’t kill anymore, so if you knock someone down a set of stairs when you have 1/10 of your health left and they end up with a sliver, they actually have a bigger chance than you of walking away with the match.
If the kicks weren’t as invulnerable as they are you could beat them out with moves that hade a fair amount of active frames, but as it is now it is simply way to hard since you only have 1-2f to time that hit, and the rising speed varies depending on if they do the wakeupkick instantly or tech and do it.
- Wake up kick range are like projectiles thus not being able to space them out correctly then whiff punish them because they are all the fastest recovering attacks in the game next to jabs.
So that’s a really bad point of the whole wakeup game in doa, but DoA’s oki also has some nice elements to it.
For example, when you hit someone on the ground with a low, and force them up, there are specific moves you can use afterwards that are uncounterable due to the 1f startup of counters. So you can force them into a situation where you are either going to do a mid punch, mid kick, throw or a low which stuns.
However, no character besides from Hayabusa can setup a low move to become uncounterable so by low countering they are beating out two of the options.
It should also be mentioned that when you are forced up it is impossible to do wakeup kicks, so that element of danger gets taken out.
**
Movement:**
I agree with you here that the movement isn’t as good as it should be and forces you to guess an unnecessary amount of times since you can’t get away fast enough. But I don’t agree with you on the fact that forward movement is too slow, I mean just pick a generally fast character and do 336,336 to dash and you’re moving pretty damn fast, especially Kasumi.
It’s just that moves recover too fast on whiff for the movement to capitalize on it, so it’s not really movements fault, but the recovery of attacks.
For sidestepping I really don’t care much for it since the game wasn’t made with sidestepping as a defensive measure in mind, it’s only used to get better placement on the level so that you can expose your opponent to various dangerzones, like walls, water (which I dislike will speak more of that later), barricades etc.
Punishment on guard:
Overall I’m satisfied with the reward punishing on guard gives, however I think that punishing whiffs just isn’t that useful as it should be because moves recover too fast and you end up risking a high counter hold instead, which is stupid.
But throwing on guard, albeit a bit simple, works as good punsihment for most characters in the rooster.
Wallgame:
I agree with you here that walls are way to forgiving since you have 2 different defensive measures and one which can escape pretty much anything except strings made to give wallhit into stun or another wallhit.
But I don’t think that the wallgame should be as unforgiving as in DoA3 either, there needs to be some middleground, like only be able to use counters from the wall. Because I remember that before people started slowescaping walls I was pretty satisfied with how the wallgame worked.
Another thing I got dissapointed with was how 4.1 removed wall 2-in-1s because that only empowred the allready biased wallgame further.
Stages:
Yes, there are two many stages that act in a random manner making super launchers fail, or make attacks go through the opponent in corners in some situations. Other times some characters 9K midkick launchers whiff if they low counter for unknown reasons because of stage issues.
These are such basic things that should have allready been taken care of during beta testing since it’s not like it took long to notice that these things were happening on the stages.
Experimental Playground is the best example of a broken stage since it basically has every stage glitch possible put into one stage, and it also has a special one by itself.
On the topic of stages I’d also like to mention how water is too dangerous, simply because fast lows, or lows with long reach, become too powerful in water and can’t be reacted to in the least.
Which makes matches become stupid “Will I do a low or mid to stun you” vs. “I’m going to counter low or mid”.
The water is more of an issue than both wakeup kicks and the walls since it ruins the fundamental of how you should actually play the game.
**
Getting out of attacks/throws with frame advantage:**
This is also something that’s just really stupid, besides from moves that are punishable on hit like Dragon kick, Brad Wong low throw, Tina running throw which simple could have been fixed through simple testing.
What makes this whole thing stupid is doing a just frame low counter.
A low counter in DoA avoids highs since it’s in a crouching state, and recovers faster than standing counters (wtf), so there are times when a low counter is done the very frame after you get hit you will be able to recover with something from slight disadvantage of -4 to slight advantage +4 depending on what move you did this on.
To fix this they should simply make it impossible to do just-counters because it is simply too good of a defensive measure since alot of the time it cannot be punished or gives advantage.
As for getting knocked down and ending up in advantage this is also stupid, there are a bunch of throws that have this or where the one who techs ends up at neutral next to you. Any attacks that knocks down should always give some sort of advantage since these attacks are often slow or punishable thus making it a risk for the person to use them. So when someone uses these attacks why is it that it’s possible to punish them for doing it even when you get hit, I agree PL, makes no sence at all.
Not enough advantage:
It’s true that there are almost no moves at all in the game that provide advantage on hit unless they stun, nor are there any moves that provide advantage on block unless they guard break, and in some cases not even then.
I belive that every character should have one or two pokes that give advantage on block, not on hit because of how the doa system works of reading string cancels, because simply by poking someone you are risking losing 1/4th of your healthbar if they land a lucky high counter hold.
So why should you be put at a disadvantage for taking a risk like being the aggressor, because as it stands now being aggressive is most of the time riskyer than being defensive (being in water changes this).
There should also be string enders that give frame advantage as an added inscentive for people to try and hold that attack, thus forcing a situation where you get to punish their hold with a 12f throw.
Edit: actually I will post this on DoAC aswell just to see how different the responses are.