And the hit stun all you have to do is Hold (Counter) or Mash (aka slow escape lol)
Low counter/hold escapes throws and highs and lows =\ and is the fastest recovering counter in the game. Its also difficult to punish if you don’t anticipate it. Actually all of them are.
Yes that was me vs Korea. NC team? Don’t you mean WCG Team USA?
Also turtling is pretty much the best way to play DOA (even though I rush people down regardless cause im a cool guy lol) you just pick your proximity moves which are hard to punish from a distance, or get a char who has a lot of frame adv (Hitomi is like the only one). You get frame adv on hit with HIT STUNS however they are all escapeable so I don’t really see it as frame adv. And when someone is in a hit stun you can’t throw them unless they try and break the stun.
I am pretty decent at VF from playing it but I can’t really keep playing it for too long knowing that it won’t really pick up as far as a scene goes. Its only big in japan and the USA scene is like the DOA scene here.
Heh…totally forgot about low holds beating high attacks. That definitely hurts trying to play a real spacing game. Beats jabs and can’t use a good low attack cuz you’ll probably get holded. LOL. DOA is one of those fighting games that’s better just played for shits. Like Bloody Roar. It’s obvious at this point that there’s too many issues with the game (and too many people who won’t look over those issues) for a competitive scene for it to ever take off in the US. It’s tough to get a fighting game to take off in the US because it requires so many regions to agree to playing the game seriously. For a game like DOA…it’s just way too uphill of a battle. DirecTV is literally saving the game competitively speaking.
I really hope the VF5 scene does pick up in the US at some point. Game is WAY too good to sleep on.
DOA3 and DOA2 were totally find because there was better risk/reward vs holds thus made things better.
And get up kicks barely had stupid range like that. So many ways to avoid the get up kick in those games.
There were no stupid hitboxes either. And in DOA3 you had a very punishing wall game vs people who liked to throw moves into the air. And there was a great deal of frame adv on guard and hit in both of those games.
That’s interesting because I thought that was supposed to be one of the things that was being worked on in DOA4. I remember in previews for the game they said that they would be adding more frame advantage to attacks to make the game more “offensive minded”. Strange to hear that the game never really took on to the style of gameplay that was already rooted in the newer versions of DOA3.
Yea more offensive minded meaning he wants you to hit buttons faster and do all the strings.
Well thats what he told the CGS players when he went to one of the tapings back in July. “You guys should be pressing buttons faster”
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This is what was funny though. In the early beta’s of DOA4 the game had massive amounts of frame data a lot guard breaks. Had all the same shit from DOA3 the movement etc. NO INVULNERABILITY ON WAKE UP people got fucked up for laying on the ground. Everything was faster as far as movement wise so you could move very freely.
Then Itagaki did some “final testing” by hisself which is why the game was delayed. Then we got this piece of shit that we have today.
I told you and DOAC forums a year ago that this game was trash. At first I tried to like it, and gave it a big chance(even tried to defend it here at one point), but the better you get or understand it, nothing changes. I think that’s what upset me the most, cause I wanted to enjoy the game but it let me down in the end.
I got attacked by nearly everyone at DOAC because of the stuff I said, that now browsing the site people are finally saying that that’s what they actually dislike about the game too.
PL, it’s good to see that you’re finally not trying to keep your opinion about it reserved, cause I knew you didn’t really like the game too much.
It came to the point where I said fuck it, and I started to feel bad for knocking on people for enjoying the game. It’s just opinions anyway.
PL: Could you post reasons why this game (DOA4) is fun/good? Aside from good graphics and eye candy.
I have a friend who plays a lot of fighting games, and liked tekken a lot at one point. Then he loved DOA4, and finally vf5 online currently. Myself, being primarily a tekken player as far as 3d games go, I could never get into DOA although I’ve tried it, and vf5 seems too hard the times when I tried it.
Whaaaaat??? I used to play DOA 4 in 06 and a little in 07 and what everyone was saying is so different from today. I regretted not playing it anymore, but it sounds like that wasn’t such a bad idea after all. I left before getting a feel for stupid bs. What you say about Itagaki messing the game up, makes a LOT of sense…press more buttons? hell no.
Edit: The answer to your question: It is bad!!Exclamation times 2!
LOL. Itagaki’s a tough cookie. Wouldn’t be surprised in the least if he’s the reason the game ended up like it was. He’s not so much worried about how technical his game is as long as it ends up looking flashy on screen. Someone will have to take over his job completely I think before DOA ever starts leaning towards a more competitive fighting series. He’s just worried about sales and making his game look and feel “better” than the other 3d fighters. Which I wouldn’t have had a problem with 3 or 4 years ago when I wasn’t travelling across the US to play SF and other fighting games competitively. Now…it just doesn’t feel worth it to play DOA seriously when all everyone does is rag about how much work it needs before it will ever become a fighting game that the majority of the fighting game scene will take seriously.
Right now…when it comes to 3d fighters competitively in the US…if you aren’t playing Tekken seriously you might as well be playing something other than 3d fighters. I hope at least VF5 will change that. It’s cool that DirecTV is sponsoring tourneys for DOA4 and all but the DOA4 tourney players obviously don’t have quite the offline scene and numbers of people to play with that players of 3rd Strike or Tekken do. The big cash prizes are what drive the select few people who do play the game seriously to come out and compete. Bringing them out to play a game that a clear majority of the hardcore fighting game scene finds extremely tough to support.
Well it has a pretty innovative environmental system as far as how it is used, and I love the stun/combo system but at the same time its the dumbest thing because of how bad the risk reward is. When you stun someone their counters deal less damage however your throws will still deal high damage vs counters just that the problem is they have to counter. WHen you stun someone you can choose to extend the stun to max critical to get a high launch with a launcher or you can just launch for a normal launcher and deal the combo. Just going for stun to launch is less risky cause your opponent doesn’t have much options to guess from however thats backwards cause they can still guess right which is what I DO NOT LIKE about it.
And the fact that holds even thought dealing less damage deal more damage than all the attacks you deal when they are stunned because your attack damage is toned down as well.
The counter system is innovate but needs to be toned down. If I were a tester I could fix alot of the shit in the game.
People don’t know this but in DOA3 the counters dealed less damage even less than DOA3 and you were more rewarded for punishment on guard and on whiff. People try to say DOA3 was dumbed down cause it was just a 3pt counter instead of 4pt dividing one hit level into two (mid punch and mid kick) but in DOA3 there was less guessing, less attacks stunned being more knockdowns, knockbacks and more launchers.
The game played a lot like DOA with Tekken elements in it. Well imo it played kind of like T4’s ground game but with DOA’s juggling and some of its other elements. Think of t4’s system (which imo was really good just had some char balancing issues) and DOA3’s environmental system, VF’s okizeme and DOA’s counters. The game also moved very fast.
I wish people would start playing doa3
When I say DOA3 I am talking about DOA3.1 which is the japanese version for those who don’t know.
In DOA4 for the passed two years I have been beating everyone solely with my mindgames. Simply cause there is nothing in DOA4 beside that. Knowledge only gets you to a certain level. But its sad when I have to use mindgames on someone who is such a lower level than me and doesn’t have nearly as much knowledge as I would have but I have to constantly outguess them because the game is lacking so much.
ITs weird cause DOA4 has alot but at the same time it doesn’t because you can escape everything beside launchers.
There could be a SOLID WAY of playing DOA4 and there is probably a way more consistent way (omg weird coming out of my mouth) of playing but its hard to find that way when EVERYONE plays online and refuses to try and travel offline for some sort of gathering.
Yeah man…DOA3 was good times. DOA3.1 was a good patch to the game but came out too late and never got a US release on top of that which made it go into obscurity in the US. I still like the 4 point counter system since IMO it gives more incentive to work mid ranged attacks. Less incentive for scrubs to just mash on mid counters.
DOA just needs the right people behind the game so that it can be taken more seriously. I mean…it’s tough considering DOA was designed to be kind of an anti-Tekken/VF. In the sense that the game was made as a more accessible and free form version of the more strategic 3d fighters it’s based on. I really doubt Itagaki had really planned or cared for marketing the game to make it strategically sound for higher thinking in tourneys. For him it’s more about just making the game sell to the audience that will buy it just because it’s flashy and gives any casual gamer a reason to beat up on someone in a video game. Which…those casual gamers definitely do make up more of the sales of the game than the people who bought it to delve into the strategic and competitive elements of the game.
If anyone remembers watching the DOAU interview about DOA1…Itagaki made the game as a last ditch to save Tecmo from…other crappy games that weren’t selling. He was trying to grab a new audience that wanted to just walk up to an arcade machine and hit buttons and have a good time. That hasn’t changed years later and that formula is still working for him. It’s making him money and more money than what the hardcore fighting game community will. Until the game is made to be appreciated for its strategic and competitive elements…DOA will just be another game making it just because it’s sexy and flashy to the casual gamer. Unlike Tekken and VF where it’s at least understood by a majority of people that the games are ultimately meant to be played in a quick thinking, highly competitive manner.
If i could made $80,000 or more, I heard M$ sponsors a lot of this stuff, I don’t care how stupid the game is
I read the thread, and my apologies because I know very little about this game, but maybe it’s all of these things that make the game what it is and why it appeals to people. It’s different. Not every game should play the same.
I was a bit surprised to see some people agree (or disagree with you rather) that the problems you listed weren’t actually problems.
For example, I don’t understand why wakeup should have invulnerability frames, but a few people in the thread argued that this wasn’t a problem, and the site admin guy argued “should a person be beaten more after they are down?”
Number 7 of this list is probably the dumbest at face value but again I haven’t played the game to truly judge. Also, the game doesn’t yield random results, if you place first consistently, that means the best player still wins. Maybe DOA doesn’t need fixing, you should just play a different game
yeah, i’m not gonna lie, i’ve been holding this in for a while now:
as a VF player, and i’ve been one since VF3tb ( but had NO competition where i live since no one played ), i’m jealous as shit of DOA players. Solely on CGS alone.
I’ve watched stuff like Swoozie’s video blog, DirectTV CGS for the longest, wishing VF was in DOA’s position. i mean, dude makes way more than i make in a year, for like a few months of work ( not knocking Swoozie 'cause i think he’s really doing his thing ). fact of the matter is, these companies need to support other games. it can’t just be a visual thing, because VF5 is every bit as graphically good looking as DOA4, perhaps moreso. It can’t be a system / game mechanics based thing, because VF5 is the better game.
so why is it that gaming leagues are not supporting VF5? why do i not have the opportunity ( and i’m not saying i’m even really at that level, there are tons of VF players WAAAAY ahead of me, but i should at least have an outlet of measuring that outside of online ) to compete in the same way all these other cyberathletes are competing in the game i love, when even the best DOA4 player in the US agrees that the game is inferior? why is CGS going so far to support a game that its own proprieters believe is trash? is it ratings? is it just something based on the community and the players, like, do they feel maybe that the players wouldn’t be able to provide the same kind of personality? ( which would actually be a very strange value judgement, considering they haven’t even met us yet )
more importantly, how do you convince DOA4’s crowd that the game has these flaws? how do you get VF5 to ascend to the popularity of a game like DOA4? let’s discuss this, i seriously think we can get something out of this.
edit: on that one post, lol yeah, i don’t really know the DOA community like that ( i met Sorwah once and he schooled me in DOA3.1 though ), i just remember bboydubc’s name kind of being associated with the game. he is really good at VF though.
also it just occurred to me that part of the rift between VF and the cyberathelete leagues is that you have PS3 and Xbox 360 versions that have distinct differences.
also apparently VF5 Evo is coming out sooner than everyone thought, it’s currently slated for like July in Japan although that could always change.
oh ya and my one friend likes fighting games a lot, and i’ll give him that, but i know he’s kind of a scrub in tekken at least, but he still beat kasumi chan at the chicago tournament they had here like a year ago
and if just some guy can beat a “champion” in that game, in a tournament match, then surely there has to be some kind of problem with it
A few messed up arguments here and there (not on your part btw), but otherwise…
not as bad as I was expecting. I thought I was gonna see UBER MINDLESS OMG BRAIN NUMBING POSTS that would want to make a person punch a hole through the internet into the person on the other side of the world.
But eh…been on MMORPG message boards for a whee bit too long.
DOA is more popular and it’s an Xbox exclusive. Plus Tecmo and MS do support CGS and the like as well. Plus Sega doesn’t give a shit about the American VF scene.
The problem here is that said player is less consistent than DOA4 when it comes to trashing or loving DOA4. Pretty hard to take him seriously in this regard.
Every fighting game has its flaws, we aren’t all going to run to VF because of every little problem. The TK community didn’t, the SC community didn’t, the 2D community didn’t, etc. . . why is the DOA community expected to?
well let me clarify; i’m not saying that there should be some great, Moses-like mass exodus of DOA players over to VF. people should play what they like.
if i have any main question for someone like PL, or Master, or anyone who is in a position where they can pretty much see the inherent flaws of the game and know it basically inside out, the question would be, “what mistakes or potential pitfalls can my community avoid”, or rather, “what should we NOT do”?
DOA is more popular, yes, Sega isn’t as big in the US as it was when Dreamcast was out, yes, these are both sadly true now. but the same argument really could be made for Street Fighter and why it has YET to be supported by World Cyber Games. I mean, EVERYWHERE in the world, SF has had global impact. the other day i played a guy in EGYPT in GGPO. EGYPT, man. do you understand how insane that is? we’ve breached that point that Jim Carrey was talking about in Cable Guy about playing MK with a guy in Vietnam.
as for “taking PL seriously”, i mean, whether or not you do is probably up to you at this point, because as far as DOA goes he is pretty much that dude, he has nothing to prove whatsoever. but he’s presented a list of flaws whereas i’m sure if they were in SF4 people would DEFINITELY complain and it’s up to you, take it or leave it. what I’M more interested in though, is the concept of taking a game to the level of global competition and accessibility that DOA has reached that has far less flaws and infinitely more options ( even if it’s not VF ). that genuinely excites me.
