They removed the SFIV-style shortcut for supers, and I suspect they’ve done the same with 3S shortcuts ie. you need to do QCF QCF cleanly.
Even in the training room.
Yeah I think it’s something like that. It has to be qcf, qcf, not whatever it is I normally do which is probably qcf and then d, df.
I think I hit the button sort of early. Just a habit and in 3S it’s fine but in 5 it isn’t so I have to re-train my hand a bit. Which of course stinks a bit but whatever, being cleaner with it is only a good thing.
As for losing a round for whiffing shoryu. If you are going to guess, dot it early in a round/match not late. If you guess early and it works, you set a precedent. If it fails it won’t hurt you too badly (they have no meter and you have a lot of stamina left).
You don’t have to do then super clean; I often do QCF 1236, but they have to be much cleaner than in SFIV
Third Strike’s input leniency on supers is as you are assuming. 3S values the diagonals in a super motion more than the forwards. Your first quarter circle must consist of all three inputs, the second needs to only contain down and down forward. This is the opposite to SFIV, where it requires the second forward over the diagonal. If you do a quarter circle in that game, then stop in the diagonal, you will get a shoryuken, this is why even at high level play you see EX shoryukens come out at times. It is an obnoxious “shortcut.”
3S super buffer variants: (Assuming you are on 1P side)
236236 : Super
23623 : Super
23626 : Normal (corresponding to whatever button you pressed)
2366 : Normal or Hadoken if done very quickly
2323 : Shoryuken
2626 : Normal
26236 : Shoryuken
2623 : Shoryuken
For completion’s sake:
- Dashes eat forward inputs, so you have to do another forward to dP after a dash.
- Hitting back will negate any forward you do for a DP (This is more or less a universal rule of fighting games at this point, though I think if you do the motion fast enough, you still might get a DP, but you’d have to do it insanely fast.)
- Half circles are the same concept, the first diagonal is necessary to getting the move, the second diagonal is the end point for the motion.
I personally am a huge fan of SF3’s input leniency. I wouldn’t mind certain changes, but overall, it is a very good foundation, where you get most everything you want when you want it, with enough shortcuts to keep people from having to be completely precise. I could be biased, since I learned fighting game execution in 3S, but, in my experience, if you can do it in 3S, you can do it in any game. SFIV was the exception, because as noted above, I too was victim of DPs over supers, because of that silly input leniency on shoryukens. I would like that changed, and little else. Keep the forward requirement on supers if you want, just make sure a DP doesn’t come out in it’s stead. It is TOO much for a DP to come out after an entire quarter circle.
I personally like doing Ryu’s Super by “executing” two hadokens one after another
Simple stuff like j.HP -> cr.MK -> Hadoken -> Shinkuu is so much more satisfying both execution and damage wise than j.MK -> cr.LP -> cr.LP -> Shoryuken -> FADC -> Ultra 1, it’s amazing
Another “what if” changelist thing, trying to fit an answer to a perceived problem.
If it turns out that it’s too easy to turtle against Nash:
NASH
New Move: Bullet Catch - hold down the V-skill input.
What it does: Basically a longer-range throw that deals relatively little damage (same as regular V-skill.) Slightly slower than V-skill with longer recovery. Can be teched like any other throw.
Goal: Give Nash another option to clear white damage against an opponent who is committed to turtling. Regular v-skill is fast and has active frames to catch limbs, while held v-skill is slow, meant to give the opponent more reason to press buttons when Nash’s walkspeed is too slow and dashing in is too much of a risk.
Basically used like you would use a kara throw. This is under the assumption that nobody has kara throws - otherwise you could just give him a good one, but I like this idea better because you can give it less damage and worse startup to make sure that regular throws are still useful. It would be a situational thing where you use it when you’ve built up white damage with normals against a Birdie or some such but can’t crack the shell.
True block strings are still an issue in SFV? If so, the fix is the same as it’s always been: Make block stun equal to hit stun. Or at most, -1 difference. Having large gaps between hit and block stun is a solution in search of a problem.
It would be nice. But true blockstrings are only half the issue. Because of input shortcuts, you’re still pushing yourself out with no real mixup, unless you have a true blockstring into an overhead.
Question being, what are you trying to accomplish with this blockstring? Does your blockstring bring you any closer to the opponent? Is there a reason why your opponent would be afraid of it?
See SFxT, which had all of SF4’s input shortcuts and crouchtech, so certain Tekken characters had true blockstrings for days that didn’t actually accomplish anything, and it was better to just do jabs and basic mixup. Only the chains that actually gave real high-low mixup were meaningful.
But it’s not always just about high-lows. Blockstrings can also be used to create safe pressure, either to just control space, or set up opportunities for counter hits or whiff punishes.
The game has white chip, so you basically get a bit of “offense” started even if it is all blocked and it puts a bit of pressure on the defender since he can’t sit the all day and hold downback with the impending risk of eating an overhead or throw and lose that white chip.
I’d also like to see overheads being unsafe but linking into supers in this game.
I don’t get the impression that’s the problem that people are having with the game. Most of the complaints I see are that tick pressure is hard to apply, particularly for the slow characters who lose to jabs or walking backwards.
So, the question is, what’s the goal of the blockstrings. For this concern that people have, it wouldn’t be enough, because the character doesn’t move fast enough to actually get the opponent to press any dangerous buttons. I mean, in the first place, two of those characers already HAVE easy access to true blockstrings via TCs or special moves.
If Capcom has maintained their stance on walkspeeds in a game that came out after SF4 and SFxT, I doubt there’s anything that can be said to change their minds. So in the absence of that, you may want a different option if it creates problems.
I really dont like that this shortcut is in this game. It was messing up a friend of mine while playing and I dont like that its in SF4 anyway. Maybe they could make it an option to turn it off if they wont get rid of it? I just think it handicaps players in the long run.
I for one wouldn’t mind being able to hit folks post-KO like 3S.
i wouldn’t be against seeing more of this kind of stuff in sf5. i honestly wouldn’t mind if one of the new characters had a similar play style to sfxt heihachi/kazuya/raven/jin.
I believe strongly we will see one of the new characters play that way.
It would fit with someone who does a lot of grey damage and looks to wear down the opponent through pressure.
Maybe they would also have specials which ONLY do stun damage…
So they rack up a lot of grey damage through constant pressure and then look to stun and do a huge combo.
I would love to see something like that which utilizes the systems they have in the game to create a character with a totally different kind of rhythm/style.
On another note: anyone else prefers stages without people or animals constantly moving in the background in loops? Something like the China stage in the first trailer with some cars and chairs and that’s it.
Background sprites are one of those features of the 2D times that translate poorly to 3D (I’m not even sure I like it on 2D: I hated the KOF12 stage with all the fat ladies). More often than not they hit the uncanny valley and at best they just look retarded. I would love to see a “no background sprites” option so we can get to play in still looking stages. Extra points if that kills any chances of having frame rate drops for tournament play.
Thought of some cool additions for training mode -
Record on first input = records the dummy after you press a button
Record after countdown = records the dummy after the timer counts down. This would be in here for charge characters so they could hold a charge before the recording starts.
Playback after block stun = This would allow you to record the dummy in the two ways I’ve mentioned above, then set the same dummy into a “all block” state until block stun is over. At this point the dummy would attempt to punish whatever attack you’ve had blocked with the combo or punish you have recorded. This would be a cool way to see what things are/aren’t safe.
Playback after button input = This would work in the same way as the previous idea but the dummy would react to any button (not directional input) made on the player 1 side. In essence this would be a way to test out which moves you could use to whiff punish stuff.
So yea, I know that a couple of my ideas could just as easily be solved by reading frame data, but I feel like there would be room for both regardless.
Since a lot of people were complaining about the simplicity of the game, i was wondering if it wouldn´t be more interesting for the game, if every character would have 2 v-triggers, one should be an instant powerful attack like Vega & Rashid have it and the other being a timed power up on specific properties like we´ve seen on Ryu, Ken etc. What do you guys think?
Sometimes simple is better.
@Wikum Those are seriously some brilliant suggestions, especially the playbacks after block stun and input. That would really be nice
We all know they’re going to add new mechanics and select-able X into the game for future updates anyways.