Can’t she just Block on wakeup ? I don’t think that it makes it really that bad for her as i am sure other characters may be able to apply similar pressure to her. I don’t know to be honest maybe it is a favorable matchup. What OS are we talking about here that would destroy her wakeup. I know EX Drill is throwable now so that is free and it is either that or she will back dash right?
This is some great stuff. Thanks alot.
thanks for the heads up.
Hey guys, check my thread out, I’ve updated the third post with new tech on how you can get Ex AE to be +10 on hit!
Here’s a link
[forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/191106/poisons-new-tech-thread-updated-please-contribute](Character specific combos and set ups thread
Recovery maybe, doesn’t matter Rose controls this matchup, Believe me when I say this. Go play some good Rose players then try to tell me she doesn’t.
@Drake Aldan
Thanks for those notes man, I’m slowly updating the threads with all matchups for sure. Good on you dude for making Punish Notes!
I play good rose players both at offline casuals and online. One of my good training partners has mained rose since vanilla and now uses both poison and rose. He is aware of the match up and plays it very well. The match up is not in roses favor. It is even or in poisons favor IMO. I think I have explained it clearly. Reactively throwing out fireballs against rose is no problem. And proactively needs good spacing and mixing up the distances. Once you get her down as well she can’t do much as we can pressure her quite well with meaty normals and throws, and good LMT reads to catch back dashes. I’ll hit the lab right now and develop some option selects as well.
Some quick OS’ I found on rose.
Meaty cr.lp, cl.st.lk os ex Rekka catches her back dash
Back throw, (hold up forward), J.lk Os EX Rekka catches back dash.
You can also Os sweep to catch her back dash.
If you don’t Os the Rekka or sweep, it is a safe jump against ex spiral.
This same set up but option selected with ultra 1 done on meter less bison beats his back dash and backwards teleports. Loses to dwu and head stomp/devils reverse.
It also beats decapres dps and backdash but loses to Ultra 2.
Beats kens mp dp and backdash but whiffs on his other dps. But his mp dp is the anti air one with the most invincibility and best hit box. Smart Ken wouldn’t do any other one.
Beats cammys dps and her backdash. Only loses to ultra 2 and ex spin knuckle.
Beats sakuras back dash and ex dp. Loses to both ultras.
Beats all of adons dps and ultras. Loses to back dash
Blanka really isn’t as bad as people make it out to be here. She fights him really well IMO. Just be wary of slide and EX BB and its NP.
A good Cody can be difficult because Bingo can go through fireball block strings on reaction and he can punish blocked rekka from any range into cr.LK > slide kick special. With meter he can FADC ultra soo… yeah, kinda rough. Hard to zone from 3/4th screen and closer as well because he has U2. If she gets momentum she can win it though (but this is every matchup for poison really).
T.Hawk is surprisingly bad for her as well. She’s forced to air to air as anti air because t.hawk and condor dive to mess with her anti air timing, as well as condor dive being unpunishable from a lot of ranges. EX condo dive is completely unpunishable and goes through fireballs and EX condor spire shuts down grounded fireball zoning. She shits on all the other grapplers though.
Mostly I feel like she struggles in matchups where she can’t punish effectively. A lot of characters with those bounce back on block moves can be difficult for her to deal with because of her limited range on rekkas and poor move speed.
Also I might add, for those of you struggling against fireballers, work on using flip kick to get over fireballs, and EX flip kick to go straight through them. Follow up with the grab follow up and start your oki pressure. They’re not as bad as I thought they were originally after getting this down.
Who are good Rose players? Because I play on regular with a lot of the best in the Midwest. Aka Alucard, Derrick Legend, Hornett and ETC. I’ve had this discussion with D.Legend, and a few others and he also feels that Rose beat Poison. He mains Juri/Rose and has mained Rose since Vanilla. I’m telling you a good Rose will beat a Good Poison.
Her dash reflect stuff eats Poison up, you’re still in recovery. Rose can move and create herself another option out of the situation. The matchup is at best 5-5. From match start position Rose has advantage you have to take that away from her, But if you cannot it can start to go downhill and it probably will. But hey man, To each their own.
Also, I’m realizing too that Hakan is an underrated matchup for Poison. I’m trying to lab some matchup notes for this one as well.
i usually play rose against poison players when i run into one. i beat them like 19/20 times. one time i played a long set against a poison player and bodied him with my mediocre rose like 18-1 until i was like fuck it this is too brutal.
@"Drake Aldan"
I dunno if it was you or someone else but the WoL LP fireball thing is very tricky and wonky. I’ve been labbing with it and remember a match sometime ago against a Gouken player I play agaisnt on a regular and if they backdash the option LP AE will not do anything except go behind them. Video Evidence.( Old Match) But evidence none the less.
The biggest problem with Blanka is anti airing him is really difficult. You have to play his game because slide will kill your entire fireball game which is fine. Playing his game and the lack of fireball means that you can’t really push him to the corner like you would want as this is Poison’s best attribute. Poison walk speed and general pokes won’t win us this one either. Beside if the Blanka player had a life lead and just decided to lame out and just sit there it gets very rough.
With Cody you kinda have to mix it up on your block strings between LMT and fireballs and doing nothing, I wouldn’t recommend staying in his face too much in neutral because his buttons are really good in general. I would say that you kinda have to throw fireballs at him while being aware of his Ex Ruffian kinda like how Ryu would. Getting a hard knockdown completely changes the match in our favor as Cody’s wake up options are risky, cost a lot of meter and quite frankly not that good. Got to be careful anti airing him though because his jump ins have a lot of active frames. I think Cody is an even 5-5 match. I would also like to add that learning to crossup LMT is really important vs him because landing that one knockdown vs him is a game changer.
@Arkayne17 It’s my understanding that MP AE is the true meaty in this regard (Shin Oni told me this at CEO).
LP AE is too fast.
Let me face them, you aren’t doing it right then.
i would do it if you didnt live in toronto. midwest internet is baaad.
The thing with Cody is that he has an answer for whatever special you cancel into on block.
Fireballs = focus, Zonk, backdash, U2
LMT = slide (cr.MK)
Rekka = focus, punish with cr.LK>MK/HK ruffian on block
So lets say you don’t pressure him with normal>special and you throw fireballs. Cody can simply walk you down and hold zonk charge. Even if you throw HP Fireball, he may get hit, but he’ll still hit you for a knockdown and you’re being pressured. If you’re just doing raw LMTs to start your pressure, he can slide on reaction (cr.MK) and IIRC jab you out of it cause Cody’s jabs are that good. Jumping in isn’t a great option since Poison has a floaty jump and because Cody has about 10 different anti air choices. Match gets even harder IMO if Cody ever picks up the knife.
This would be fine if Poison had actual solid blockstrings or if any of these options were hard to see. But if you haven’t started your pressue midscreen already or don’t have them in the corner, most of Poison’s game doesn’t matter to begin with. Even if you try to play the full screen fireball game, Cody can match you with rocks regardless which strength you do. If anything, this match is slightly in cody’s favor just because he doesn’t have to deal with poison’s mid-close range options. Poison has to rely on the Cody to screw up or do something for her to LMT.
he can also slide under fireballs but yeah i 100% agree. cody is a hard matchup and it doesn’t help that his combos are way easier so you have to be really on point with your links.
oh yea I forgot slide goes under fireballs. I actually haven’t tried to see how easy/hard it is to do outside of special cancel normal. (not the most reliable “get around” but it is indeed an option.)
This pretty much helps to solidify what I said from the beginning, that Poison gets beat by bullies.
Midwest internet is bad but our players are good.
I think the match up is… who gets meter first and can manage it better. Try and bully rose she can do much.