** Poison Okizeme Stuff**
Okizeme Stuff
Spoiler
Keep in mind you most likely can’t use AE setups against people who can avoid meaty fireballs. For comparison, characters were tested against back throw, meaty HP AE. (Be aware of the variance between situations and timing; generally, the earlier you can do HP AE, the better. Adjust your play on a matchup-to-matchup, setup-to-setup basis.)
Instances where you’d be punished for doing this setup are in bold. Instances where you can punish them for trying something are italicized. Some moves are not bolded or italicized at all, meaning that either they just end up escaping the setup, or they may or may not punish you depending on your HP AE timing. Try out things for yourself and draw your own conclusions.
Abel (EX Change of Direction, EX Wheel Kick, EX Marseilles Roll, HP Super, Ultra 1 Soulless, Ultra 2 Breathless)
Adon (EX Jaguar Kick, EX Jaguar Tooth, Super, Ultra 1 Jaguar Revolver)
Akuma (EX Goshoryu, Ashura Senku, Ultra 2 Demon Armageddon)
Balrog (Boxer) (Any EX dash punch, Buffalo Headbutt, Turn Around Punch, Super, Ultra 1 Violent Buffalo)
Blanka (Coward Crouch, EX Vertical Roll) Ultra 1 Lightning Cannonball, Ultra 2 Shout of Earth)
C. Viper (LP Thunder Knuckle, Ultra 1 Burst Time)
Cammy (EX Spiral Arrow, EX Quick Spin Knuckle, Super, Ultra 1 Gyro Drive Smasher)
Chun-Li (EX Hazanshu, Super, Ultra 1 Hosenka, Ultra 2 Kikosho)
Cody (Zonk Knuckle, EX Zonk Knuckle, Super, Ultra 1 Final Destruction, Ultra 2 Last Dread Dust)
Dan (EX Koryuken, Ultra 1 Shissho Buraiken)
Decapre (MP Psycho Sting, Super, Ultra 2 DCM [reversal])
Deejay (EX Double Rolling Sobat, Super, Ultra 1 Sobat Festival)
Dhalsim (Yoga Teleport, Super, Ultra 1 Yoga Catastrophe)
Dudley (Ducking, Ultra 1 Rolling Thunder)
E. Honda (EX Sumo Smash, Super, Ultra 1 Ultimate Killer Head Ram)
El Fuerte (EX Habanero Dash, EX Quesadilla Bomb [Can EX WoL punish this at this distance?])
Elena (EX Scratch Wheel, EX Rhino Horn, Super, Ultra 1 Brave Dance)
Evil Ryu (EX Shoryuken, Ashura Senku, Ultra 2 Messatsu-Goshoryu)
Fei Long (EX Chickenwing, Super, Ultra 1 Rekkashingeki)
Gen (MP Super Zan’ei, EX Jyasen, EX Oga)
Gouken (EX Hyakkishu, MP/EX Kongoshin, Super)
Guile (EX Flash Kick)
Guy (EX Bushin Senpukyaku, EX Bushin Flip, EX Run, Ultra 1 Bushin Goraisenpujin)
Hakan (Oiled EX Oil Rocket, EX Oil Shower, EX Oil Slide, HK Super)
Hugo (EX Monster Lariat, EX Meat Squasher, Ultra 1 Gigas Breaker)
Ibuki (EX Neckbreaker, Ultra 2 Hashinsho)
Juri (EX Senpusha, EX Kasatushi)
Ken (EX Shoryuken, Ultra 2 Guren Senpukyaku)
M. Bison (Dictator) (EX Psycho Crusher, EX Double Knee Press, EX Head Press/Devil Reverse, Teleport, Super, Ultra 2 Psycho Punisher [beware of crossup??])
Makoto (EX Karakusa, HK Ultra 2 Abare Tosanami)
Oni (EX Goshoryuken, EX Sekisei Jiraiken, EX Rakan Dantojin [watch the crossup], Ultra 1 Meiho Gohado [projectile cancels out], Ultra 2 Tenchi Sokaigen)
Poison (EX LMT, Backflip, Super [not all hits will connect], Ultra 1 Love Storm [projectile cancels out])
Rolento (Stinger jump, Mekong Delta Escape, Super, Ultra 2 Take No Prisoners [reversal])
Rose (EX Soul Spiral, EX Soul Reflect, Super, Ultra 1 Illusion Spark,
Rufus (EX Messiah Kick, EX Snake Strike, Ultra 1 Space Opera Symphony, Ultra 2 Big Bang Typhoon)
Ryu (EX Shoryuken, Super [Trade into full damage for Ryu], Ultra 1 Metsu Hadoken)
Sagat (HP/EX Tiger Uppercut, Ultra 1 Tiger Destruction, Ultra 2 Tiger Cannon)
Sakura (EX Shouoken, Super, Ultra 1 Haru Ranman, Ultra 2 Shinkuu Hadoken)
Seth (EX Shoryuken, EX Hyakuretsukyaku, Yoga Teleport, Super, Ultra 1 Tandem Stream, Ultra 2 Tandem Typhoon)
T. Hawk (EX Condor Spire)
Vega (EX Rolling Crystal Flash, Backflip, Ultra 1 Bloody High Claw, Ultra 2 Splendid Claw)
Yang (EX Kaihou, EX Senkyutai, Ultra 1 Raishin Mahhaken, Ultra 2 Tenshin Senkyutai)
Yun (Ultra 2 Sorai Rengeki)
Zangief (EX Banishing Flat, Double Lariat [punches], EX Running Bear Grab)
After AA cr. HP:
- xx HP AE (use cr. HP xx HP AE as AA, buffered as one motion). Should hit meaty, preventing jumps. May or may not lose to reversals depending on spacing.
- LP AE (you don’t have to cancel cr. HP… which is pretty hard to do when twitch AAing…) You recover fast enough to DP a jump-in. They can neutral jump but it just puts you back to neutral game.
- HK LMT. Loses to reversals, neutral jump, backdash. If you have been using LP AE well, you should beat their block (get in at -1) or focus (armor breaking).
- HP AE. Should punish their neutral jump. Juggle them or whatever.
(Apparently the spacing can differ for AA cr. HP; you can end up very close to the opponent if they have a “short jump”, e.g. Guile or Makoto, or depending on the distance the opponent jumps in. I’ll check this out later.)
After LMT throw/EX:
- Backdash, MP AE. Safe, but not much else. If they jump in DP them.
- Backdash, HK LMT. I’d like to assume that using the above option sets this up.
- Walk back, HP AE.
May lose to reversal DP based on your spacing, DWU, etc. Neutral jumps should land right on top of the projectile. Follow up with HK LMT, forward dash cr. MK xx MP WoL or f. MP, LP/EX AE… What else can you think of?
- Forward dash twice and cl. HP or throw. You could just walk forward too. Standard meaty/throw mixup, nothing special. f. MP/cr. LK is an option too.
- Whiff immediate cr. LP into meaty j. LK crossup. Safe against Ryu’s reversal DP (but not against autocorrect MP DP). DWU wrecks this, of course. I think it’s best used sparingly.
After WoL:
- Backdash, HP AE. Loses to Ryu’s EX DP (only 1 hit), but beats the rest clean. Situation is the same as LMT above. Neutral jump can avoid it. If you anticipate the neutral jump, try a walk-forward DP.
- Backdash, MP AE. Stops neutral jumps. Loses to some reversals, as HP AE does. You won’t get a combo from this at all unless you FADC cr. MK xx MP WoL (you have to commit to this pretty hard).
- Meaty/throw/f. MP/cr. LK/cr. MK mixup. Eh, I can’t think of anything else.
- Immediate f. MP will corpsehop if you need to escape a corner or something.
- Forward dash, back dash, [f. MP, cr. LP xx LP WoL]. (Thanks @Ramma). Loses to reversals. Careful, you can’t really mix this with a low due to different timing- so hope that your dashes don’t telegraph your intentions…
- Forward dash, neutral jump HK (Thanks @Wonder_Chef). A safe jump, safe against 4 frame reversals. Watch for DWU.
After EX WoL, j. HP (hit them on the way up to stay close):
- Most options lose to reversal.
- f. MP. Loses to lv. 1 focus, focus backdash (iffy), focus forward dash DP (tight, hard to do).
- cr. MK. Loses to throw (tight), backdash (seems like just an escape, no punish), trades with 3-frame crouch techs (plink jab tech, etc.). OS into whatever you like (WoL hit confirm, AE, LMT, etc.) or just leave it alone based on how the opponent reacts.
- cr. LK… is not an option, you’ll probably push yourself out of st. MK range after two lights.
- Walk-up throw.
- You may be able to immediately j. LK crossup, but it depends on where you hit your j. HP. I wouldn’t rely on it.
After sweep:
- Immediate HP AE (the closer you landed the sweep to tip range, the safer). Not really a setup, you just get to walk behind it and stuff.
- Forward jump, HK/LK (Thanks @Wonder_Chef). A safe jump, safe against 4 frame reversals. Watch for DWU.
After focus crumple:
- Dash in, late cr. HP xx HK LMT (Thanks @Wonder_Chef). Do the cr. HP as late as you can (after their knees hit the ground?) Done properly, LMT should hit meaty- follow with a cl. HP or cl. HK xx WoL or whatever you like. This setup just about doubles your damage (compare [lv. 2 focus, cl. HP xx WoL 268 damage] vs [lv. 2 focus, cr. HP 170 damage + LMT, cl. HP xx WoL 305 damage = 475 damage) but you’re gonna lose to reversals and such. Given how slow LMT is, I’d say use it sparingly.
After forward throw:
- Whiff st. LP (mash it), HP AE. Might even cover DWU, there is almost no reason not to do this… It’s very safe against a lot, if not all projectile invincible reversals, too (Decapre’s DCM cannot punish). Follow with HK LMT, forward dash cr. MK, etc., etc.
- HP AE with early timing, walk forward and throw again (Thanks @Wonder_Chef). This’ll only realistically work if you’ve been manually timing HP AE, instead of whiffing a move first.
- Immediate st. LK, st. MK, forward jump HK. A safe jump. Safe against 4-frame reversals. Watch for DWU.
- Immediate MP WoL (x1), neutral jump LK. (Thanks @livecho) A safe jump. Safe, even against 3-frame Shoryuken- but the neutral jump LK is just for looks and can’t connect. Use sparingly.
- Immediate EX AE, forward jump LK. (Thanks @livecho) A safe jump crossup. Safe against 4-frame reversals- but you just burned your valuable meter for it! Use sparingly.
After back throw:
- Immediate HP AE. Covers DWU. Can be neutral jumped if the HP AE is done too late, but otherwise the situation is the same as forward throw. If you anticipate the neutral jump, just walk forward and st. HK them out of it. (Thanks SWAG KING YOLO)
After U1:
- Jump forward, HK. This can’t actually hit, but it’s safe against reversal Shoryuken. One time bait, I suppose.
- Immediate LP AE. I think you might get this for free.
After U2:
- You get nothing. Good day sir
No, but really, the spacing is awkward, and the opponent wakes up really fast. I would just backdash and play keepaway, or just try to play neutral if I needed to keep attacking.
In the corner:
After WoL:
- Backdash, MP AE. (Thanks @Clamper.) You get a mixup with [f. MP, cr. LP xx LP WoL] or [cr. MK xx MP WoL]. The cr. MK will combo; the f. MP will not (it can, but your timing has to be very tight). Your opponent may or may not be able to reversal through, character specific.
After EX WoL:
- late cr. HP xx any LMT (Thanks Jon Slayton). Hits meaty. Will lose to reversals.
- forward jump cancel, late j. HK, forward dash (crossunder).
Risky, as crossunders are. You should have enough advantage to beat out 3-frame jabs if timed correctly.
- Juggle HP WoL into the WoL corner setup above.
Thanks, Drake Aldan.
** Poison SafeJump Stuff**
SafeJumps Stuff
Spoiler
Safe jump set up for shotos (3 frame uppercuts)
Rekka> 2nd hit> 3rd hit, immediate back dash, immediate forward jump lk
RYU:
either stuff’s his DP into an air reset, or the DP whiffs
KEN:
HP DP get’s stuffed into an air reset or whiffs, LP DP will trade in his favor. MP DP and EX DP (4 frame) will hit clean, but you can do another set up for those dp’s which are his AA DP’s and the ones he is most likely going to use*
AKUMA:
DP’s Whiff
ONI:
MP/HP/EX DP whiff, LP DP trades
EVIL RYU:
same as ryu
DELAYED WAKE UP
Rekka>2nd hit > 3rd hit, immediate back dash, cr.lp, immediate forward jump lk
adding the cr.lp compensates for the delayed wake up.
*The 4 frame safe jump for Ken is Rekka>2nd hit >3rd hit, immediate forward dash, immediate neutral jumping HK. It will lose to his LP and HP uppercuts, but those are not the uppercuts a competent ken player will use for anti airing.
** Poison Extra Stuff**
Extra Stuff
Spoiler
Midscreen meterless
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [357 Damage / 455 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [365 Damage / 495 Stun]
Corner Meterless
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HK xx HP Rekkas [364 Damage / 455 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [373 Damage / 430 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP xx LP Rekkas [387 Damage / 480 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [398 Damage / 505 Stun]
Mid Screen 1 Bar
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, Cl.HP xx EX LMT [370 Damage / 430 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas, J.HK/HP [370 Damage / 550 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas, HP Rekkas [371 Damage / 530 Stun] *Character Specific
Corner 1 Bar
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HP xx EX LMT [396 Damage / 440 Stun]
Lvl 3 Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [426 Damage / 550 Stun]
Mid Screen 2 Bars
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [432 Damage / 455 Stun]
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [440 Damage / 495 Stun]
Corner 2 Bars
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [448 Damage / 430 Stun]
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [473 Damage / 505 Stun]
Mid Screen 3 Bars
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, Cl.HP xx EX LMT [445 Damage / 430 Stun]
J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX Focus Attack, Cl.HK xx HP Rekkas [446 Damage / 715 Stun]
Corner 3 Bars
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.HP xx EX LMT [471 Damage / 440 Stun]
J.HK, Cl.HK xx LP Fireball FADC Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [486 Damage / 750 Stun]
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [501 Damage / 550 Stun]
Mid Screen Full Super
J.HK, Cl.HK XX LP Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx LP Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas [475 Damage / 755 Stun]
J.HK, Cl.HK xx LP Fireball xx HP Super [525 Damage / 440 Stun]
Corner Full Super
J.HK, Cl.HK xx LP Fireball xx HP Super [525 Damage / 440 Stun]
J.HK, Cl.HK xx LP Fireball FADC Cl.HK xx LP Fireball FADC Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [508 Damage / 780 Stun]
Lvl 3 Red Focus Attack, HP Fireball, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx LP Fireball FADC Cl.HK xx MP Fireball, Cr.LP, St.MK xx MP Rekkas [526 Damage / 585 Stun]
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas 3 bars / 140 + 438 Damage / 845 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX level 2 Focus Crumple, HP Fireball, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas 3 Bars / 140 + 449 Damage / 855 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX Level 2 Focus Crumple, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx HP Rekkas 3 bars / 140 + 454 Damage / 880 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas empty Jump cancel, Cr.LP 4 Bars / 140 + 431 Damage / 870 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.LP/LK 4 Bars / 140 + 435 Damage / 870 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.MP/MK 4 Bars / 140 + 441 Damage / 880 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX Level 2 Focus Crumple, HP Fireball, Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas jump cancel J.HK 4 Bars / 140 + 455 Damage / 880 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.HK 4 Bars / 140 + 444 Damage / 900 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball EX Level 2 Focus Crumple, Cl.MP, Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.HK 4 Bars / 140 + 460 Damage / 905 Stun
and so on…you can probably explore more and find more variety.
So let me explain what is happening.
After a back throw, on Elena, Blanka and Cody, an instant J.HK Lands extremely ambiguous as a cross up. Against Cody and Blanka, it is entirely safe from reversals. Against Elena, She can beat it only with EX DP. Now you can train Elena not to contest it by doing j.lk instead of J.HK first as the j.lk makes the EX DP whiff. Now if you don’t do an immediate jump in HK and pause slightly before jumping, this will allow the opponent to start getting up earlier and their hurtbox will be out in front and you will hit in the front. This can not be seen by the eye and is a true 50/50 if the opponent is trying to block.
Now by utilizing this 50/50 and going straight into a heavy combo like the ones I have listed, we can get some scary results if everything goes to plan.
The main thing you want to pay attention to is the stun value. As you can see, some of the combos i have listed do 900+ stun, and Elena has 900 stun, which would mean that Elena would get stunned right at the end of the combo. This is something we DON’T want. Why is that? well if we stun her right at the end of the combo, our damage scaling is maxed out, and the following combo we get on her stun is going to be less then 10% of its worth. You want to use the combos that end right below their stun threshold so that the following touch will stun them, leaving them stunned with your next combo being unscaled. For example.
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Empty Jump cancel, Cr.LP 4 Bars / 140 + 431 Damage / 870 Stun
Backthrow > J.HK, Cl.HK xx EX Fireball FADC Cr.HP xx EX Rekkas Jump cancel, J.LP/LK 4 Bars / 140 + 435 Damage / 870 Stun
the first combo ends in an empty jump > land > cr.lp (air reset) and stun critically high at 870/900. Right after that cr.lp I will do an overhead to catch them as they recover from the air reset. This is a very nice and tricky ending that has to be blocked high which is not what people normally do when point blank in front of the enemy. Since she is at 870 stun, and the least amount of stun any one of our hits does is 50, that overhead if it lands will cause the stun, giving us a free follow up combo with no scaling added yet. You can easily land a meterless max punish combo in the 300’s damage range ending in Rekkas for a hard knock down totaling off 90+% of her health. The second combo listed ends in a jump cancel J.LP/LK, this allows us to do a high air reset into a left right mix up with walk under/dash under cross under or not shenanigans, where 1 jab or any hit will lead into stun. Just examples so you get the idea.
So with Blanka you want to do some of the ones that are at least 900 if you want the guaranteed 1 hit away from stun. With Cody you can’t get to the 1 touch away but i mean its only a difference of a couple hits, that’s one basic combo like a couple jabs into Rekkas. Either way I don’t see how you could execute this and lose the round after.
*Also to note, the combos that cancel EX Fireball into level 2 focus crumple are inconsistent on Cody so you might want to avoid those on him and go for the FADC variants, which are easier anyways