Ibuki Critique Thread ver.2

I think you’re forgetting that Ibuki’s set-ups and necessary combos are easy to do. But anyway, to average players, a 50/50 from Ibuki is the same from a 50/50 with C.Viper, only difference being that Ibuki gets lots of auto-pilot damage that goes into the same set-up.

I’ve only played around with Seth for less than a week and already I can do his basic setups, his safe jumps, his spd gimmicks, and them “Poongko combos.” It also helps when Seth has hardly any 1f links that you really need to know in order to style on your opponent.

I can do his combos easily too, but to actually win consistently with a character where 2 mistakes = dead takes a lot more work. Anyway we all know SF isn’t about combos, and his creative set-ups require you to read your opponent rather than throwing a Kunai that will sometimes cross-up or not.

Easy to do? Yes. But to the non-average player, landing those set-ups is certainly not going to be free. Playing against a seasoned tournament player, who knows the Ibuki matchup well, quickly exposes why her set-ups and auto-pilot damage are not putting her at the top of the charts.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to argue. I’m on the side of Ibuki being a bad character that lets you steal wins at every level under seasoned tournament players.

Anyway the Kunai Vortex has to be the easiest Okizeme in the history of fighting games to learn, even easier than Nina’s from Tekken 5.

Too bad people only care if you win the whole tournament (consistency), not how well you can random out wins or rounds.

Yes I know but for those who are playing this game for a more personal reason like say, wanting to prove to themselves that they are good players, are in for a big shock when they play someone that knows the match-up.

That being said, if you play a pretty good Makoto or Claw, you should come down to the UK and steal money whilst teaching us the match-up. But of course you could just get merked.

Video time!

I played a pretty good Guile (although he didn’t seem to know how to react to ibuki’s mixups) today in an FT5, I ended up winning 5 - 3. I took here two representative losses which will show what you should do against Guile, and what you should NOT do.
However I’d like your opinion.
I suck at life leading. As you can see, whenever I lead, I’ll end up doing something stupid. Fuck me.
Oh, and you should watch it without sound. My phone has the strange habit to record with a delayed sound these times -__-

[media=youtube]yoXQRRHo2t8[/media]

(please note that the video is uploading at the moment, it should be up soon :smiley: )
You can notice that I suck at minding Sonic Booms. I even went for a stupid U2 -__-
And I still have some shit coming sometimes, you can see it twice here, with a super jump coming instead of a Tsumuji. I really have to eliminate this
Anyway, tell me what you think about it.
And especially, this guy surprised me 'cause he was SO GOOD at cornering me. I have never faced a Guile who had a pressure like him. Whenever I was cornered, I was REALLY having a hard time.

“This video is unavailable.”

Uploaded now, you can have fun (it was still uploading)

Stop starting every single round with slide, and all slide usage needs to stop once Guile gets super.

When you get in, you should go for cl.st.HK mixups more since it does huge stun and Guile has a low stun rating, instead of going for cl.st.HK mixups after he gets dizzied. I would say go for it on your first knockdown and then no more until the next round/match, assuming going for the stun is beneficial (ie: Guile has lots of health life).

You should do more than just st.MK xx MK Tsumuji strings, or at the very least vary them more, since st.MK xx MK/HK Tsumuji is not a true block string.

I dunno why you go for random EX neckbreaker and U2, especially when you have the life lead. You should ask yourself what you were thinking, what your game plan was, if that was the best course of action, etc.

If Guile’s “corner game” was really getting to you, I’d hate to see you against characters with real corner games, like Bipson and Rufus. I think you should get a Guile friend or find someone that plays Guile and let yourself get cornered and then try to block everything. At the very least you should go to training mode and try to replicate the situation, except with you as Guile. This should help familarize you with what moves to expect, when there are gaps, etc.

1 - Can Guile punished a well spaced slide followed by a backdash with his Super? I wasn’t aware.

2 - Actually as you can see I’m just starting to use cl.HK mixups right now, so I don’t really have a handle on “when exactly should I use them”. It took me time for example to understand how to efficiently use a sweep during a fight, it will take me time understanding cl.HK as well. When would you go for cl.HK for example?

3 -Depends. I usually start with MK - LK Tsumuji to leave him thinking I’ll continuously do true blockstrings, and then switch to st.MK. Putting back these matches in context, I was leading 2 - 0 at this time and was trying to mix my game a bit before he understood my mechanics. This is especially why I went for a corner EX Tsumuji with down end - cr.LP - j.HP which just failed :smiley: .

4 - “Randoms” neckbreakers and U2 were just results of me being stupid. I was like “Okay, he spams Sonic boom, let’s just punish” and failed. Especially in the corner, again, after 3/4 matches I noticed he always went for the exact same string LP Sonic Boom - cr.MK or overhead - throw/jump. So when I did this stupid U2 I was totally expecting a Sonic Boom, and totally failed cause he decided for the first time to avoid doing it.

5 - Actually what surprised me here is that I haven’t played a lot of Guiles, so basically it was maybe the first time I met a good Guile. All Guiles I met were just “distance sonic boom - flash kick - sweep” without any kind of pressure, so I was just discovering a way to play Guile here. But anyway, I added him in my friend list so I can play more with him and have a better understanding of the Guile matchup.
I already played some very good Bisons, I’d even say “Bison attacking -> me no do anything”. Now I usually go for “quick, attack him first and impose your rhythm to the fight”. I don’t know what you guys think of the Bison matchup (except “fuck Bison”, of course), but I personnally think that basically if you let him impose his game, you’re screwed.
And Rufus… Is there any player playing Rufus at a decent level who is not in the US? lol. Seriously, in France I know only one good Rufus: Liky. And I can’t say if he’s godlike/very good or not, but here this matchup is soooooooooo unknown that he basically rapes everybody. I think I haven’t seen any good Rufus player in Europe, only good Rufuses I know are of course Justin Wong & Ricky Ortiz.

Oh, and again, the fact that I started every round with slide was not an habit, it was just, again, me trying to mix my game. I basically wanted him to think “man this guy will always slide at the beginning of the round”. And he did, the following match, he started with a flash kick.

Thanks for the tips anyway

Out of the subject here, but Mingo, are you from NY?

I noticed alot in your match against guile was doing somthing through prediction. I used to have a habbit of doing somthing by prediction when it’s way better off doing it by reaction. Keep in the habbit of reactions as well; you will overall have better decission making, and it would have changed the match entirely.

You ate alot of sonic booms through bad slide distances as well. Just take note of the speed of the projectile, and distance guile will be in.

  1. Since Guile’s super is 2f startup, it can basically punish slide at almost every range when blocked. In general, after a blocked slide, even at max range, you’re not at a frame advantage. Going off of this, each slide you do should be for a reason, otherwise you’re putting yourself in a bad situation (frame disadvantage) if not an unncessary risk (possible punish your backdash).

  2. I would go for cl.st.HK in the situation I gave; you landed a knockdown or you some easy way to combo into cl.st.HK and hitconfirm it, and your opponent has low stun and/or lots of health remaining.

2.5. How do you efficiently use sweep during a fight then?

  1. You mean abusing it because he doesn’t know he can punish it on block?

  2. Think about your decision for a moment. How confident were you in your read? Can your option cover multiple options (eg: what if Guile jumps? Blocks? Sticks out X normal? etc.)? What happens when you’re successful? What happens if you guess wrong? Is this in your favor? Is it necessary to take this guess? Do you have any alternative options which may or may not be safer? etc.

4.5. Another thing you should think about is how you got put in this situation in the first place. For example, look at 5:24 where you stun Guile and go for a launcher SJC cd mixup. Do you think this was the best decision? If you’d ask me, I would say no. Guile has full super and you have a commanding life lead. Going for a HK cd and getting flash kicked xx fadc ultra would put you in the corner, and put Guile on the track toward making a comeback. If you’re bent on going for SJC cd mixups, at the very least you should consider positioning. MK cd would have been a better option to stay on the same side. I would have gone for LK cd because with that kind of life lead, I don’t really need to pressure Guile, and it’ll most likely bait out a flash kick from him (depending which one he does, he may or may not be able to FADC it due to spacing) which would be crucial at this point because you have a decent life lead, Guile builds meter slowly, and without super you have far more freedom to pressure/chip life with slide.

  1. I think for the most part, trying out other characters for yourself + watching pro players play is good enough to learn the general gist of your matchups. Eventually later when you have no life like these pros do you really have to get into the nitty gritty details, like unblockable situations.

I’m from RI.

@RedCaliburn:

I agree with you, my prediction skills just suck. My reaction skills as well. Oh wait. =)
I really have to be more concentrated when I play :confused:

@Mingo

1 - Nice to know. I usually slide from max range and then backdash. Once he’s used to me backdashing, I’d go for EX Kazegiri.

2 - So you mean trying to cl.st.HK on wakeup? O_o
2.5 - Just like I efficiently use a cr.MP to neckbreaker. Sweep, if blocked go to target combo -> HK SJC LK Tsumuji, if not stop here andgo for vortex. I’m working a lot on my hitconfirm these times =)

3 - Exactly. If it works, why should I stop doing it? Once he knows that it’s punishable I’ll switch to something else. But how’d you finish a chain on guard if not with Tsumuji btw?

4 - Two words: I suck. Sometimes I feel top tier and try to mind everything and get punished just like that. Of course I don’t do it in tournament conditions, but I like to try it in Xbox live =)

4.5 - Same. You’re right. I’m still experimenting cl.st.HK mixups and don’t really know everything about that. I think that these kind of situations will teach me that I should not go for it. I usually go for j.HP - st.MP - (st.MP if big hitbox) - st.MK - neckbreaker/tsumuji :slight_smile: . I rely a lot on experience and my personal best way of learning thing is to go through them. Failing once will keep me from doing it next time =)

5 - I watch a lot of pro matches (let’s take the Rufus example with JWong & Ortiz), but still I don’t really have a handle on the match. I can’t really spot frame traps from pro matches. But still, I agree it makes me more aware of what setups he can do!

RI = Rhode Island?

  1. cl.st.HK in situations where it can combo and you can sort of hitconfirm it. Examples would be comboing st.MP , cl.st.HK, or after a deep kunai.

  2. Same reason you wouldn’t want to keep doing random neckbreakers, even if your opponent gets caught by them. It builds “bad” habits. Not to mention the footsie factor that if your opponent is purposely not punishing you, in favor of waiting for that surprise factor or that special occasion where they can punish you even harder (EX flash kick, super, etc.).

I wouldn’t go for Tsumuji in the first place. Ibuki has plenty of other frame traps and throw setups to use.

4.5. Post dizzy combo j.HP , cr.HP xx SJC neckbreaker is usually your best option if you don’t want to Tsumuji loop. You also don’t have to worry about if st.MP st.MP st.MK works on your opponent, even though that combo works on like everyone except like 2-4 characters.

  1. Again, try out other characters for yourself. go to training mode and try to replicate what you saw from that pro match. For determining frame traps, after each button ask yourself “would my opponent be able to mash dp here?”

Yes.

  1. You’re right, now that I get the timing for cl.st.HK SJC cd, I’ll have to work on st.MP - cl.HK after a Kunai. I was actually looking for a change in my game cause I’m tired of my Bnb lol

3 - It build bad habits “against Guile”. Tell me how Ken or Ryu can punish a Tsumuji on block, I’m curious, you make me feel like I forgot something huge

4.5 - j.HP st.MP st.MP st.MK xx special does not work on some characters, mostly due to the j.HP which can possibly be badly spaced and make you land too far. is j.HP cr.HP SJC neckbreaker more damaging?

5 - Roger that

Bonus: so what would you say about New York’s Street Fighter community? How many events are organized around there? Is there any kind of regular tournaments, like local arcade ranking or stuff like that?

  1. Ryu can actually punish LK/HK Tsmuji with super on block, and anytime he sees a blocked st.MK it’s pretty much guaranteed unless you burn meter or make an epic read with st.MK xx SJC something or something else risky, like st.MK xx Hien.

Anyways, it’s not so much about your opponent having to make a read or take a risk and reversal through your fake blockstrings, as much as it’s about you not varying your strings very much.

4.5. Usually it is more damaging due to scaling.

I have no idea what NY’s SF community looks like. I only know of the general SF community in MA (Massachusetts), and the nonexistent community in RI. The last time I went to NY was with family when I was a kid and I remember they wouldn’t let us go in the Statue of Liberty due to the 9/11 scare.

Don’t worry about it to be honest, you technically can’t react to Guile’s Sonic Boom anyway. You’re better off sticking to the slide although in ver.2012 you won’t be getting a counter-hit anymore.

Even the best Ibuki players do random EX Neckbreakers against Guile. It’s like jumping in, you need to have your opponent thinking about the option, otherwise they’ll just throw projectiles all day confidently.

OT: I got KOFXIII for Christmas and oh dear, and I no where near as good at SF than I am at that game. 70% combos hit-confirmed from a cr.LK? Though I hate the new design for Athena, she looks like a little girl and her command grab is pretty much useless outside of combos.

If I ever get KoF13 (I’ll probably get it eventually) I’ll probably main Yuri for the same reason I main Ibuk and female stuff in other gamesi: repping that female avatar.