Ibuki AE Changes

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
221

Eh… Jump back kunai was never the means to gain meter anyways. It helped, but you got most of it from your offense. It’s not like the plan is to keep rufus out all the time and ex kaze all his jumps/dive kicks. There are other options to stop his dive kick(spacing, s.mp, b.mp, c.hp), but the timing on those normals can be tough though I’ll give you that.

I think the nerf to rufus U2 only makes the matchup easier. Now we don’t gotta worry about safe jumping all the time and can actually vortex, unless the Rufus wants to use his ultra just to stop us once. Besides, considering Rufus only has 950 stun, I believe you should be applying more pressure anyways.

Granted, I haven’t played AE, but just from the nerf to U2 alone makes me believe this.

222

i never really had much problem with rufus using u2, maybe its just me but i found it to have little use i the matchup. pre ultra i tossed kunais freely. after ultra i switched to mostly safejumps and every once in a blue moon a crossup kunai, when he wasnt expecting it.

the funny thing is that at neutral game rufus cant be offensive while buffering u2, cause his u2 was a QCB motion… which was huge. had it been a qcf motion it would have been straight cheap. but since it was qcb rufus had to make a choice between closing the gap or buffering ultra… which was EXTREMELY good for ibuki.

now that rufus players will be picking u1 in the matchup more. it makes rufus offense MUCH more scary. with u2 all he gets after hp tornado in the corner is another weak ass tornado for one hit. with u1 he will get a full ultra. he will also become alot more scary when he has 3 meters and u1.

and lol if your keeping out rufus with ibukis normals… that shit is laughable… chun and bison have problems doing it and they have WAAAAY better normals for doing that sort of thing.

if the nerf to u2 makes you think the matchup will be easier, you were WAY to predictable with your kunai pressure.

and as good as ibukis offense is, rufus has great ways to keep her out with jumping hk and cr.mp.

how you could think this matchup is easier with a nerfed jumpback kunai and less meter because of it is beyond me… good rufus players arent going to let you have upclose frame advantage for free.

-dime

223

agreed , the rufus matchup in AE seems like it will be very bad for Ibuki ( 6-4 or maybe even higher ?). It’s tricky enough keeping Rufus out when you need to , but now one mistake will hurt more than it already does. That’s nightmarish to me.

Umm… has anyone “confirmed” ( for lack of a better word ) if the Yun matchup will be a really bad one for Ibuki as well ? Yun divekicks have been giving me nightmares since 3s ( I was a chun main ). And once AE drops on consoles you know a million people are going to be dickriding Yun since A: he’s ‘new’ and B: Daigo switched to him. I kinda wanna know what I’m going to be getting myself into when I go play AE.

224

I bet Daigo is maining Ken before AE becomes DLC.

That’s actually Dashio the vanilla Viper player.

baba is updating this thread daily.

http://shoryuken.com/f315/ssf4-arcade-ranking-260060/index2.html

225

Rufus having U2 is 10X worse than him having u1. You just have to know what to look out for to him to get the u1 off

either

corner crap to ultra
TC to ultra
or FADC to ultra

those are the three most popular ways to land his ultra.

The whole match up is basically whoever gets their offense going and has a good set of EX meters to boat for defense. We use ex kaze to stop dive kicks and rufus’s just throw on random messiahs when they feel like it because the move is that stupid. With u2 out of the picture we can do whatever we want all the time when he has ultra now. The only thing we have to worry about is baiting an EX messiah or two. Whoopty do. Learn their habits and just bait it out. Other than that Rufus’s defense sucks.

The only reason why Rufus is good is because his punish combos are great and his ultra is landed like ryus u1. Virtually from anywhere on screen. Hes not known for having solid pokes that lead to anything or being defensive. The reason why people hate fighting him is that his pressure is dumb and he easily lands big dmg. (Oh yeah, and half of the characters in the game cant do shit VS his dive kicks even though you see it coming for a mile.)

Now we just have to get in there and stay on that ass. Now he can’t anti air our shenanigans at all. What is he going to do? Raise the roof from wake up? Random messiah out of pressure? Sure, okay. Now Rufus’s have to learn how to block kunais and the new mix up and not rely on an ultra. yummy.

Honeslty, you can random SJ at him probably now and get away with it because if you jump over him at the right angle the cr mp would miss. It’s really difficult to anti air her SJ if spaced right with a grounded normal.

226

see what i did there? what exactly are you bringing to this argument thats of substance besides blanket statements?

you cant LOOK OUT for any of that. if hes close to ibuki they are all hitconfirms off of divekick except for his ex messiah so, truythfully you arent looking out for those moves, you are looking out for divekick…and we all already know that. ex messiah is the only thing ibuki could “look out for” by playing passively and baiting him to death… which makes ibukis offense less effective.

i dont know what rufus’s you’ve been playing, but his defense is pretty damn good. ex messiah is a great defensive move, cr.mp is a great AA, jumping hk to snake strike or u1 ON REACTION is highly doable if ibuki does either a jumpbackwards or a forward jump.

say what? rufus is good because of the insane cheese of his divekick options and his ex messiah rounding out his defense.
his only weakness is reversals and getting in. thats it.

.

if you dont consider divekick a poke i dont know what to say.

watch motempest against neos defensive rufus, neo was the one that ended his winstreak.

yeah? thats what ive been saying, its more pronounced in ae though, for ibuki.

agreed, thats the same conclusion that motempest came up with as well. problem is that its much easier said than done.
watch the vid if you dont believe me.

… dont really know what to say about this, besides it being wrong.

yeah our offense against him on knockfown is better… we better hope we can kill him from one knockdown, cause thats what it will take to win consistently against him now… maybe not that bad, but damn near.

im not seeing what that would get us besides on the other ide ofb him… and he has a ton of answers anyways like jumping hardkick ultra making us pay hard for being even a little bit predictable, whereas he can fly the friendly skies almost at his own whims.

but its whatever, like i said i never really had that big of a problem with u2 hitting me. we can just agree to disagree.

-dime

227

I’d rather face a Rufus with U2 over U1 anyday. Even without the U2 nerf. I agree with Dime, if you’re getting U2-ed during your vortex, you’re not mixing it up enough with safe jumps. Hell, you can SJ crossup j.LK with vortex-like timing, and still be a safe jump against U2, and it’ll confuse the fuck out of the Rufus player.

Jumping in at Rufus is fine, but imo I wouldn’t risk it often. His cr.MP is worthless, as long as you know how to clear your landing with a properly aimed kunai. But the main concern is j.HK and/or EX snake strike, which does a ridiculous fuckton of damage. Best only to jump if you’re expecting something like cr.HP or a dive kick.

228

Just played more than a few game against Combofiends Yun. Yeah…Ibuki has alot more trouble with dive kick characters now. Basically, there is no “answer” besides a solid defenese. I know alot of Ibuki’s like to think there’s an answer for everything…but I think on this one, you just have to bite the bullet and counter the players holes while trying to take minimal damage.

…my personal advice. Block and take the throw and reset the situation. If you get out, immediately work on setting the pace of the match by assert yourself. S.mk is good now (as an anti air too)…use it!

229

Ibuki has always been pretty free to dive kicks. U have to do different anti airs depending on which height or spacing they use them from and once they get in all you’ve got is OS c.HP tech or EX DP. Which against a good Rufus those can be risky also (but better than nothing). Rufus does have low stun and can’t really do shit about safe jumps other than guess EX messiah after the safe jump so u pretty much just have to kill him before he kills you.

Personally i never got into using jump back kunai much even against Rufus. At least from the ones ive played online good Rufus (good players in general) know how to bait your kunais are jump over them and punish ur landing with j.HP or HK. They can buy u some time at most but even in Super against a good Rufus one bad jump back kunai as he’s moving towards u can instantly get u you hit or have him dive directly in your face. Especially if it’s a Rufus that knows they can hit the kunai out of the air. It’s only really safe from like near max range against Rufus’ many options to close the gap quickly.

At this point ill just try to watch the angle of the dives to pick the best AA and stop any jump in from a distance with far s.HK.

Sounds like Yun will be the same bullshit but as long as yun has low health the dives wont be as bad of a problem unless his offense makes ibuki’s look weak.

230

Well it’s not really the same situation with Yun as it is with Rufus, but yeah…im sure you realize that. Yun Has alot more to work with and his pressure is way more threatening. He has up kicks which have invincibility without using EX. Lungepunch/shoulder to punish practically any kunais that wiffs. Command throw/dive kicks can lead anywhere from 30% - 70% of your life. Blockstrings that are superjump cancelable into more divekicks. It’s just way worse than Rufus honestly. He can get in on the ground or from the air with relative ease unlike Rufus. Because of his walkspeed, you’re almost certain to get locked down over…and over…and over again. His sholder is practically safe against ibuki on block unless im missing something (haven’t tried U2…but I doubt it’ll work). And even then, you have to have it stocked to be a threat…which means you have to get your ass beat because he has practically nothing you can focus absorb. I’m determined on working on this matchup until it at least seems somewhat even. I’m sure there are alot of things I don’t know about this matchup yet…It’s not looking good atm is all i’m saying.

231

S.mk as an aa
Sounds interesting
Juggle properties?

232

Hmm alright i must Agree with DIme and mo tempest. I always Agree with dime to be honest, he’s a man of facts, Proof’s and Logic. I dont know what was Dont_jump sayin, but all i can say bout rufus is this: He’s annoying because of U2 ,dive kicks games, and the way when he gets in sometimes …leave u stuck tryin to smash ur balls because of annoyment

Edit PS: i also agree with Devil jin bout the Kunai thing and way good rufus applies pressure. as well as agree with Mingo bout the jump in situation in SOME SITUATIONS! specialy the part were expecting dive kicks or cr.hp

now i have two questions! First, how is it that Ibuki is gonna be owned more by dive kicks? wither yun,yang or rufus? based on wut? Jump back kunai? jump back kunai was never a solution for this ><! so can anyone care to elaborate on this?
from my point of view, Ibuki ALWAYS had problems with dive kicks…jump back kunai NEVER been a solution that i relied on except to put me in some good distance situations…so i really dont get it, why it’s worse in AE now?

PS: i got why yun is deadly with dive kicks…but what bout rufus? why is it so deadly to ibuki now?

Secondly, U2 nerf…hmmm how will U1 be deadly in that case? if it’s related to not bein able to escape Dive kicks, or whatever happen that will ibuki have problems with dive kicks?..then to be honest in that case U1 will be so annoying…still i dont get what exactly is the buff’s Dive kickers have over Ibuki now Except YUN having tons of pressure after it (as will as full control over Dive kicks)

PS: Motempest …heh cool Resets against this nubnub guile at the end man…hehe SJC Mind Ownage!

233

How does the increased neckbreaker distance affect sj kunai mixup? Do you have to jump earlier and throw later now making it less ambig? Do you still get a cross up safe jump off the neckbreaker?

234

apparently u wont have time to jump and cross over with Kunai. the knock away distance on neckbreaker had been enlarge.SO after a neckbreaker u can do a regular forward Kunai jump, though easily counterable. People said that u can do tsujoe into kunai cross over after neckbreaker? not quite sure.

235

I think the complaints about dive kick pressure stems from
Ageman nerf
Although I didn’t use it against dive kick pressure
Id assume the that would be the reason

236

Hmmm yeah acho has some vids up of Ibuki vs Yun and yeah it doesnt look particularly fun to fight. LOL. He will defniitely get in faster than Rufus but i like not having to worry about EX messiah at least. Yun’s DP is crouchable so if anything u can crouch his wake up to bait the DP and punish.

Overall still it looks rough. LOL.

237

so how does the matchup with Yang look then ? Seems to be a trend with divekicks = bad matchup for ibuki in AE.

238

Actually early reports from the players at chinatown fair have people thinking that yang might be even better than yun. So if anything yang could be more troublesome. People at chinatown fair feel that yun’s ground game is weak and he’s free on wake up (i guess due to his DP being crouchable) whereas yang is more threatning on the ground. I mean if it wasn’t for genei jin, yang was a better character in 3S so im not really surprised.

239

Has anyone tried cr.HK, st.HK HJC Ultra 2 against focus attacks ?

This is the main new setup I have in mind, I didn’t get a chance to test yet.

240

Wouldn’t the cr.HK xx st.HK just launch your opponent…?