I just tested both starting from the HSH, and the SH after the Round Trip does 341k while the cr.H Judgment Cut does 344k. Not sure if scaling affects this though.
AndyG, how much damage after the super on your simplified version?
Nope, I use my way after i do a wall bounce combo, my only OTG assist is viper and she’s usually dead by the time vergil comes in lol IIRC, c.H gives a little pushback on hit so that should solve them being too close to you, and there is also a slight pause in btwn the judgment cut and when you activate swords, I usually see the first hit of judgment cut hit and then activate…it works all the time for me and it’s my staple BnB.
Well, it’s not really simplified, just different 
and I get on average 743k or so, sometimes more like 750, sometimes more like 738. That’s off a c.L c.M c.H starter so it’ll do more without that.
I’m pretty jealous – could you post up a video or something? I am letting judgment cut hit not once but 2 or 3 times before activating swords and trying to give as much pause between c.H and LP as possible, but no luck – still fly right under them.
^ i dont have any recording equipment, but maybe i could capture a little shitty cell phone thing later and post it when i get home from work.
So what are Vergil’s best combos off of throws with no OTG assists?
Because of the throw scaling hits so hard probably not much around 400k… the most I have ever gotten was around 360k off a basic bnb
^Starting off an airthrow, an easy assistless bnb from anywhere on the screen is
throw > (start charging roundtrip) s.H > stinger > teleport M > s.H > s.SH > release roundtrip > s.SH > judgment cut L > spiral swords > LP > c.H > judgment cut L > LP > high time > DS
gets about 460k before super, 590k after super. uses 2 meters, gains 1.1 so you only need about .9 meters when you grab them to do this combo.
groundthrow really depends on your assists. I’m not sure but depending on where you are, you might be able to do OTG hightime and have an assist like weasel shot hold them there while you teleport back down and continue combo (like one of those richard nguyen combos from above) but idk about that for sure.
aside from that you’re looking at xfactor canceling the high time which means you can super jump or do whatever you want basically from that point, you still have access to your ground bounce and wallbounce and it’s easy to work both of those in
Whats Vergils best (practical) solo combo?
Andy, thanks a lot. Also, I was working with your combo and had two questions:
(1) When I do the Helm Breaker x2, it pushes them really far away. Am I just not doing it fast enough?
(2) Are you doing Lunar Phase right after Judgment Cut or are you doing another cr.H? Again, asking because they’re really far away at this point.
Rkendawg, there’s a lot of discussion in the past 2 pages about this. Andy G has a cool combo that does less than Ramza’s 830k but is a bit more practical for us mere mortals who can’t do the super activation super consistently.
Thx.
I miss the last hit from the first lunar phase in this combo. What am i doing wrong?
[media=youtube]9oglsOufjGo[/media]
I had that problem originally. I did it like 10 times in a row on a couple different characters, so I felt it was stable enough to post here. Are you jumping forward instead of straight up? And yeah you gotta do it mad fast. I don’t think it’s really any “easier” than Ramza’s honestly, because I’m 99% consistent on his using an OTG assist anyway – I was just making up combos to try and deal with the inconsistency of that judgment cut after the wallbounce since that gives me issues.
Edit: yeah, it’s exactly as I described. The damage and meter build stuff I posted was without that c.H since I feel like it makes things unnecessarily difficult. In tournament, I try to do advanced combos since it makes it more fun, but my endgame is still to win so I don’t worry about doing the optimal combos or whatever. Combo video makers cringe when they see top players win tournaments doing bnbs that do 2/3 what their combos do or whatever, but there’s a reason they’re top players.
/felt like ranting a bit
edit 2: ryken, you’re too close to them. You can fix that either by backdashing and cancelling it into the lunar phase really quick (which I admit is impossible for me when I’m facing right) or, as someone said earlier today, do c.H > LP, which I haven’t gotten to help. The thing you’ll find most successful is to try and time spiral swords to hit them as they’re falling out of judgment cut, but as judgment cut does inconsistent hits and they’re too low to react to the fall, I don’t find this practical for tournament use, and so I either use a different combo or just go for a reset.
Andy, about to turn my game on - I was dashing forward then doing it, but I guess you’re saying to jump straight up then? Thanks for the help!
A lot people do different things, but what I’ve been doing is backdashing then quickly going into lunar phase after swords super. It’s a little difficult to backdash and then dp motion in rapid succession since if you do lunar phase to late after the backdash they fall out, but once you get that down it becomes pretty consistent.
EDIT: My bad, been talked about a lot in this thread already. Look on the previous page for more stuff on it
Andy, I just started the combo from cr.M and got 798,000 with better mashing!
For those who are curious what we’re doing, here it is:
cr.L (charge Round Trip), cr.M, cr.H xx Stinger xx M Trick, St.HSH, release Round Trip, st. SH xx L Judgement Cut xx Spiral Swords (charge Round Trip during cinematic) dash [j.H xx Helm Breaker] x 2, release Round Trip, cr.H xx L Judgement Cut, Lunar Phase, High Time, Dimension Slash
It should also be noted that Ramza came up with this bnb a long time ago on page 2 or so, so props to the man who’s innovated so much.
FYI we determined DS isn’t mashable
So it gets different damage because of screen placement then?
More or less. There might be some randomness involved, too. Doesn’t really make a difference, the lowest I’ve ever seen it do was still substantial.