I can't believe what I just saw. (Shady Tournament Stuff)

[Axl_m4ster]

You know, a long time ago I made this post about how seeding in tournaments was nonsense, and that not randomizing the brackets meant you were rigging shit in the first place since you were treating “top” players in a more special manner than the rest of the players and…people kinda shrugged it off. Final Round did that for last year’s Final Round, said fuck it and people went around saying this was sooo great because apparently tournaments are for the matches you see on stream and not for competing. Randomize the fucking brackets and let it ride. Does it suck to play people you know? yes. If all goes well in a tournament, would you still end up playing your friends? yes.

The rest of the players, stop thinking of yourself as lesser than the people on TV, you are there to win not to bitch about who you are playing.

like i said earlier in this thread,…
dbz world tournament style bracket seeding selection.
ping pong balls with numbers in a box with a hole to dip your hand in it.
brackets already set up numerically. just dip your hand in the box, pull out a ball, show your number to everyone, thats your number. and you face whoever’s number is in the same bracket as yours when they pull out their ball.
and no one gets to switch or change it after the ping pong selections.
i.e. the seeding for the brackets are set in stone, 4ever.
and no waiting 1 hour for people to show up who are missing from their seats come gametime type nonsense either,…unless they are actually tied up playing in another game at the venue…and that shouldn’t take anything over 15 minutes, 35 minutes max to complete their match and head over to their next match where someone’s waiting patiently for them.
if you are waiting an hour or more, than your opponent is either irresponsibly late or screwing around outside the venue and there is no excuse for being forced to wait without good reason.
if they’re in the bathroom, or something malfunctioned with their controller, understandable,…they just have to inform the official and their opponent beforehand…of the cause of some degree of delay.
this is the only way people won’t complain and cry foul.
as to who gets to hold the box full of numbered ping pong balls…i nominate iShotto.
he plays no favorites since he hates everyone equally.
only honest man i know, aside from jesus.

[Reioumu]

Experience goes a long way. I’m just saying it’s funny how you use that mentality to up and say other players aren’t trying as hard.

If they were trying as hard, they would be playing better.

[Surenio]

If they were trying as hard, they would be playing better.

Whose to say they aren’t? Just because they haven’t cracked a top 8 or won a major?

Definitely not you

[Fivec]

So, who’s more important, the player or the spectator?

They’re both important. Why do you think the player suffers from seeding?

[Worm]

In my hypothetical that doesn’t happen because of seeding by skill, you won’t have every good player on one side of the bracket, and every bad/ok player on the other side. If there was no seeding, it would be possible that the best of the “ok” players will make TOP 3 and make money when they are relatively not that good.

Though again I have to point out that we have a TOP PLAYER dictating his own matches. I realize that’s not seeding, but given the circumstance it’s not so insane when people say “fuck it just do random matchups” because the situation you’re talking about is really a wildly uncommon statistical anomaly.

Seeding may provide better results, however it’s express reason isn’t keeping a a schmuck from getting his hands on prize money. To point that out as the major reason for doing it just hampers your argument.

[Fivec]

Wait wait so Gamerbee has no talent? You are associating unknown players to no talent players. I am quite sure there is a difference.

That was not the intent of my post. I’m saying no-names are generally going to be significantly less talented than the big names. There are exceptions, such as Gamerbee.

[GZ-Matthias]

A bracket that isn’t going to change is great for everyone to see. A draft bracket whose seeding isn’t finalized and is subject to change will only cause confusion, and as it did in this case, it incites people to complain and pick what would be more favorable to them.

This is a good point. I think it just was an oversight from it being a long weekend. On a lighter note, there has never been a bracket that players have not complained about.

[Surenio]

They’re both important. Why do you think the player suffers from seeding?

Players take priority, stream folk do NOT since well they aren’t playing. Tournament is for the players first since they came to support the thing in the first place. It’s not so much a case of players suffering, it’s just what’s wrong with having everyone on equal footing with random seeding. Why should player A get a perk.

[ssf4indfw]

everyone knows that all thats going to happen is Mr.Wiz is gonna tell justin to not say it at loud next time.
close thread

also, why did justin blow the semi’s?

[Reioumu]

Though again I have to point out that we have a TOP PLAYER dictating his own matches. I realize that’s not seeding, but given the circumstance it’s not so insane when people say “fuck it just do random matchups” because the situation you’re talking about is really a wildly uncommon statistical anomaly.

Seeding may provide better results, however it’s express reason isn’t keeping a a schmuck from getting his hands on prize money.

Now I’m not disagreeing with you about a player having say in his tournament placement. That’s fucked up. I was responding to the mongoloids who believe seeding shouldn’t exist.

And yes, I know it’s a very rare chance of happening, which is why it’s a theoretical situation, but it could still happen.

[Worm]

This is a good point. I think it just was an oversight from it being a long weekend. On a lighter note, there has never been a bracket that players have not complained about.

I wonder how many player complaints have become brackets though.

Now I’m not disagreeing with you about a player having say in his tournament placement. That’s fucked up. I was responding to the mongoloids who believe seeding shouldn’t exist.

And yes, I know it’s a very rare chance of happening, which is why it’s a theoretical situation, but it could still happen.

Though we’re in a thread about a player who has a say in his tournament placement. So I think the argument for totally randomized brackets (i.e. ping pong balls with numbers on them) is more based on that than anything else. I mean some independent and verifiable random method of distribution has obvious pros which relate to this conversation.

[Fivec]

You’re assuming these “no-name” players that make it to the top 8 suck. It’s a circular argument, I agree.

No. Seeding just elevates the skill level of the top 8 in general. If the no-names are legitimately better than the seeded players, they will beat them, and it will be hype. It’s not like the seeded players go in a round up or something.

[Sixfortyfive]

But what you are saying is that Joe Shmoe is a random average player and ignoring the fact that he made it to top 8. Lets think on that for a sec. How many people would he actually have to beat to get there? In a small tourney fine, but in a larger tourney I am quite sure thats more than 3 people to get to final 8. What you are doing is saying that someone who made it to top 8 is a scrub and not even acknowledging they had the skill to make it there. Shit you might as well call Vangief a scrub…

In a tournament with 4 pools, what happens if it gets arranged randomly and the best 25% of players get put in one pool with the worst 25% in another? A lot of good players go home with no money, and a lot of bad players make it to the finals to get beatdown in a lot of boring, lopsided matches they didn’t deserve to be in.

Yeah, in that case, you can get to top 8 and not be very good, which is why organizers of almost every major tournament imaginable at least take a few measures to make sure that that situation is avoided and everyone either has to go through a known good player or someone else good enough to have beaten one. I can’t believe this conversation is even happening.

[Joe_The_Condor]

Daigo losing to Andre, and Marn at SBR wasn’t hype ladies, and gentlemen.

[Master_Chibi]

They’re boring to watch.

Now, occasionally there will be an unknown like Gamerbee who takes the community by storm, but generally, you want to see the best level of talent in top 8 that you can, and a bunch of no-names aren’t going to provide that.

Something that people care about watching.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Are you even listening to yourself right now?

Boring to watch? I will literally downback for an entire grand finals if that nets me the win, why should ANYONE give a damn for the soulless stream monster brigade or the damned fanboys that came to the tournament?

Jesus fuck I can’t even believe you said that.

[dj_de]

Stayed for Illuminati stories, was kinda disappointed

[Vegaman]

Don’t just assume some dude doctored your bracket because he played in it if he gives you no cause to think so.

yeah I’ve never known Choi to do this. The guy works his ass off the entire weekend. He def deserves to play. And if he seeds himself, so be it. Just for the amount of work and effort into making the tournament happen is reason enough to validate himself being seeded. But I don’t think John is like that. He’s pretty humble. He’s one of the best in Norcal. So if he’s seeded I’m cool with it.

[HuStLeMaN17]

Was reading this thread and I agree for the most part that its pretty shady stuff, but I have to call this dude out on COMPLETE BULLSHIT

Bro. I’ve been in the smash community almost the past ten years and nothing even close this has EVER happened at a melee tournament. This kind of behavior is practically unheard of. I have helped and oversaw many major tournaments happened within the melee community all over the nation and nothing like this ever happens. Trust me.
At the most on occassion, brackets would be moved around BEFORE the tournament begins after its made to separate people from playing their training buddies on round 1.
So I don’t know where the fuck you have the idea that the smash community is like this, but get that bullshit out of your head. For as long as I’ve been in the melee community, I’ve NEVER seen anything close like this ever occuring.
So stfu and play some more hadoken fighter.

I’ll take your word for it. Ive just heard about so many shady things in the smash community, that I thought that kind of shady type of behavior runs rampant in their Tournaments. If that really doesn’t go on, than I would like to take a second and apologize to all the smash players.

[Joe_The_Condor]

Fuck Fivec, I’m gonna down back all night just to bore his bitch ass. Grab the popcorn slob, it’s gonna be a while.

[Fivec]

Players take priority, stream folk do NOT since well they aren’t playing.

Streams build and strengthen the community. Making them less hype hurts the community.

Tournament is for the players first since they came to support the thing in the first place. It’s not so much a case of players suffering, it’s just what’s wrong with having everyone on equal footing with random seeding. Why should player A get a perk.

What’s wrong is that excellent players can be screwed by being randomly assigned to a loaded pool while mediocre ones can get a break by lucking out with a weak one. Now, depending on the payout structure, it might not matter a whole lot where in the brackets the lesser players get knocked out, but the worst case scenario is that all the killers are on one side of the bracket and all the scrubs are on the other side. Why not try to control for that kind of disaster?

Also, as I’ve said, I’m sure there are a lot of players who would not love being matched up against someone they play every day in the first round of the tournament. That’s not a stream-monster concern, it’s a player one.