How is your team vs. Morridoom? Is it the team or Chris G?

Hidden missiles on point or as an assist is also good for dealing with Vajra. If you’re using missiles assist just stay near it as Vajra is falling.

All of the AA assists with projectile heavy points are strong versus vajra also. You just do the same thing you do if you’re fighting missiles assist where you call the AA projectile assist like Jam Sess or Repulsor and stay near the the assist as the missiles fall down. Generally you’ll want to call the assist just before the missiles start to fall down.

Against Vajra people just have to learn to stay on the ground more especially if Morri is not already in astral vision yet. Doesn’t really do much block or hit stun on a grounded hit. People are scared of vajra because of the cross up and hard knockdown shenanigans if you’re in the air…but the hard knockdown issue isn’t as big of a deal if you’re on the ground. Even if you are in the air there’s a lot of movement techniques with more air movement heavy type characters that can avoid the assist and different characters have air normals and specials that can beat it also.

Lol DiosX making ChrisG ragequit is proof that ChrisG wouldn’t be as dominate as any other random team. I doubt ChrisG could play Ryu/Clint/Firebrand beat Fchamp.

However, a good player makes a good team. High level MVC3 is about oppressive teams, no doubt in my mind.

Main Teams
Viper/Vergil/Iron Man

This team I think goes evenish against Morrigan/Doom Viper + Unibeam controls the entire ground space and well as blowing up Doom missiles fairly easy. But hitting Morrigan is a pain because of her air mobility. Viper can kill Morrigan if she approaches with flowchart shell kick or j.H with focus xx H TK or focus EX Seismo whoever gets the life lead will probably win the MU.

Dante/Vergil/Iron Man

I think this team straight up beats Morrigan/Doom probably 6-4, Dante is likely the best character to combat Morrigan/Doom stuff because he has his own projectiles with crazy durabily and hitboxes that blow up missiles if they are homing in on him and he is probably the best at staling out AV with his own DT. He can also AA her derpy approches with st.B and preemptive million carats both of which lead to a dead Morrigan.

  1. Most Dante point teams have a chance. Strider assist is kinda meh against anyone who is smart with Missiles assist but it still is helpful.

Viper with Jam Session or Vajra.

**Viewtiful Joe **with a proper team behind him can also fight Morrigan/Doom his triple jump gives him insane mobility and allows him to call assist from sj height (the Kusoru) as well as him having great durabity projectiile in Voomerang. He can also blow up HM with Six Machine into any good projectile DHC as well as being able to stall out AV by mashing air joe.

Thor does well. Mighty Strike gives no fucks and Mighty Spark is good at keeping Doom missiles in check, flight and whiffing mighty spark allow him to stall.

I think Mag/Dorm/Doom (NEEDS TO BE ON PLASMA BEAM) can also compete with it. Magneto has some of the strongest start of the round options along with enough mobility to avoid non-AV Morrigan as well as approach her safely then Shockwave DHC Power Ball gives Dorm all the time he needs to start charging his spells and get his rotation of spells > flame carpet > plasma beam + purification > disrupter + teleport > blockstring into flame carpet if they block the mixup > Dark Hole + Plasma Beam > Power Ball > spells x N

There are a decent # of characters who can bop Morrigan at the start of the round but if AV gets started they are screwed. Haggar, Chris, Wolverine, Firebrand, Skrull, Nova, Cap, Taskmaster, Wesker and Spencer.

  1. All that being said the team is far from unbeatable it just has the most positive match-ups in the game. Most characters just cant do shit about it and it makes it look more oppresive then it really is. Especially when you have a titan like Chris G playing it and he actually cares about getting better with his characters and keeps up to date with tech and strats.

I dunno, if Ryu saw his buddy Ken get Lighting Looped I think he’d probably say “fuck this”

Ditto.

I forgot to mention the worst part about the Magneto/Morrigan matchup. Tridash jL/jH do not work vs a crouching Morrigan, so good luck opening her dumb hitbox up if you manage to get there.

I play shuma
vs morridoom
there’s not much more to add. . .

doesnt mystic ray beat missiles?

don’t get me started

no :frowning:

I’d say it’s both the team as well as Chris G. The team is excellent in theory (and the theory has been proven many, many, many times), but is also hard to pilot to near perfection is a tournament setting. Which is what Chris G does, which is why he is rich and hardly ever loses.

The reason why there are hardly any Morridooms? Most players (I’d imagine) and stream monsters hate that style of play and put rushdown on a pedestal. Plus, it’s hard to pilot. JRosa knows what’s up, and I hope he improves more with them.

It’s his main team and it hardly ever fails him. Remember, the characters are his tools and he uses them so well. If the characters did not have the tools, Chris G wouldn’t be so successful with them. See the video of him against DiosX, you won’t see Chris G use his old team outside of a sandbagging/pot split.

People want AV nerfed as well as hidden missiles. We have been theory fighting his team for ages, and yet no one can stop him. His tech has been out for ages, yet no one can stop him. The excuse: players are not stepping up (which is an insult to the players themselves). Could it be the team? To even have a chance against it you will need very specific characters/tools. Sure, you can beat any Morrigan/Dr. Doom team who is not Chris G’s and think that the team is beatable, but the truth is Chris G is the best user of that team.

All these theory teams that supposedly defeat Morrigan/Dr. Doom are nice, but in order to validate it you will need to find a really good Morrigan/Dr. Doom. WTB excellent Morrigan/Dr. Doom test subject.

Most people have apparently given up on finding a counter to Morrigan/Dr. Doom and instead hope that Capcom will nerf them to the ground. Which is unfair, because there are hardly any Morrigan/Dr. Doom players. People are so quick to ask for a Morrigan nerf without actually having played as Morrigan. I sincerely hope Capcom does not listen.

I say its mostly Chris G.

some people act like the other pro players have too much pride and dont play morridoom because its so cheap. I dont believe that shit, I’m sure 90% of them have tried it out in training sessions and failed. (not to say it isnt cheap, but it isnt easy either)

I think there are two strategies to beating ChrisG’s team:

  1. Teams that don’t let the bullet hell get started. Examples: Spencer/Bolts of Balthakk, Captain America/Unibeam, Wolverine/Tatsu. You need to kill her ASAP and never let her breathe.

  2. Teams that can always threaten a Dr. Doom kill. Examples: Hawkeye/Storm, Magneto/Sentinel, Thor/Arthur. Basically, you need a point character with an aerial hyper, preferably a fast one, and a second character that you can DHC into, XFC, and kill Doom with. All three of the characters I listed will destroy all of the Soul Fists you have to worry about when DHCed into.

There are a lot of lesser options, but they’re less dependable. Characters with really good anti-air capabilities. I’m talking about She-Hulk’s Taking out the Trash and Frank West’s Funny Face Smasher. Characters that can stall out Astral Vision. Repulsar Blast, MODOK’s flight, Taskmaster’s counters, Amaterasu’s reflector, etc. Characters with AoE aerial hypers like Skrull’s Inferno or Nova’s Nova Force - good for hitting her on a moment’s notice while destroying missiles, and you can XFC for the kill. Characters with mix-up hyper + pinning hyper setups (Machine Gun Spray + Proton Cannon, Bionic Lancer + Million Dollars). Teams with Strider + teleporters can test your opponent’s reaction times.

I listed a lot of stuff here that I think definitely works or has potential, and very little of it has actually been used to try and counter Morrigan. I would love to see some good players try these things out, or just something new in general.

I’m more for the Chris G is Chris G/unoptimized teams opinion. It’s quickly becoming the standard for determining whether or not your team is good, at least in theory. If you can’t at least fight Morrigan/Doom (which is by no means unbeatable), you and your team have some serious problems.

Game is not just about picking your 3 favorite characters or “2 characters and a dark anchor” anymore. Your team has to have some really solid synergy all throughout if you want to compete with Morrigan/Doom. Chris is an amazing player no doubt, and personally one of my favorite players to watch. Hell, Morrigan/Vergil/Doom might even be endgame for all we know. But unless people start picking the optimized stuff and learn the matchup, he’ll keep looking like he’s unbeatable, when he isn’t.

Chris is just “that guy” in tournaments, like Daigo was back in his heyday. If you had him in your pools, you were probably going to lose unless you really trained hard, and he had the biggest chance of winning out of everybody free (at least that’s what it seemed like). People did get better and learned the matchup (both the character AND the player), and now we got people like Infiltration in AE becoming the new “that guy” whom everybody wants to try to beat. Chris set one of the first benchmarks in Marvel by dominating with Morrigan/Doom in tournament. Now unless people want to stop making it seem like they’re just adding to his rent money every time they pay the tournament, they’ll optimize their stuff and learn not to be afraid of him.

Sabertooth*/Luke Cage/Luke Cage is the best counter to MorriDoom.

oh thought it did :stuck_out_tongue:

Mystic ray is not going to do much vs morridoom. You might as well just pick hidden missiles to counter hidden missiles.

My Firebrand/Dormammu/Akuma team has had mixed results
We have a Sentinel/Morrigan/Doom player here that I play a lot.

As far as Firebrand vs Morrigan, I don’t have trouble unless she gets Astral Vision started. I can hang near the top of the screen and avoid stuff for a while but the chip damage really adds up and it’s really hard for Firebrand to get close. But if I can get the pressure started, it’s fine.
Though this normally isn’t the case because Firebrand tends to end up fighting Sentinel with Missiles instead (In my case).

Dormammu does well against Morrigan but just like others, he has trouble with Astral Vision. I recently upgraded my movement with Dormammu and it has been helping a lot in this match-up but sometimes I still get chipped out. Dormammu seems to win when Astral Vision isn’t involved but I tend to do things like the wrong pillar when she is air dashing so I lose Dormammu for it.

Akuma has a lot of trouble here IMO, unless I am stocked on meter. He dies to chip so fast and his normals are bad for fighting Morrigan or Sentinel and Doom can just run away (Though this is rarely a problem). Tatsu doesn’t really helpagainst Soul Fist because he gets slightly taller when he Tatsus (Because he leaves the ground), so the top row of fireballs hit him. He can Demon Flip around to avoid Missiles, but he can’t outzone her and it’s a tough time getting in. And any time you try to beam, Morrigan can unfly or do Shadow Servant hyper (The pillars, I think)

The DHCs on my team make this a lot better of a fight for me, BUT I still need to build the meter.

We used to go even but lately I’ve been losing to him. The last few times though, I have been keeping it close.

Personally, I think all the power behind the team right now is ChrisG. He stepped up to be the team’s “face”. It just happens that he’s also the best at UMVC3.
I think it’s beatable, but you have to be very patient and you can’t let any openings slip by. ChrisG just knows how to be where you don’t want him to be

Ok first let me just state I won’t be answering the post questions in order.

Do you believe the team is truly that unbeatable or do you believe it’s more Chris G?

Personally, I believe Chris G’s success with this team is honestly 50% Chris G, 10%** the team**, and 40% Human Nature vs** Playing to Win**.

Chris G is smart. He has excellent execution and a very intelligent head on his shoulders. He also has a very long history in FGs so he has experience in common human tendencies and what to do and not do in general situations he may come across. Chris has shown multiple times in the past that he can win not just matches but tourneys with a multitude of different characters in the roster. This tells me that it’s more the player and the knowledge of the game he possesses then the specific teams he uses.

However Chris is not perfect nor can he defy the rules that make up the game. He didn’t stick with this team for the lulz. It’s a powerful team (will get into later) but he can only do what his characters allow him to do; and thus others can do the same.

To this day I still don’t understand how Chris is able to steamroll through endless players all over the East Coast so easily and how nobody has stepped up to contest him on a regular basis. He’s good but he’s not perfect. He has experience but so do others; yet Chris still always wins and now I feel I have a good grasp as to why: Human Nature vs Playing to Win.

People tend to lead to the path of least resistance. People tend to stick with what they know or what they are comfortable with even sometimes when it isn’t in their best interest. Sh*t I have a tendency to stick to the first route I learn to get from Point A to Point B even if a shorter, easier, or less economic path is discovered. People as a whole just don’t like change. People don’t like being out of control. People like praise and overcoming intense odds against them. All of these tendencies are just human nature.

Let’s apply this knowledge to FGs. Players usually pick characters and teams that they relate to. If they like rushdown and high pressure situations, they usually pick characters that reflect that such as wolvie, Vergil, etc. If the player is more defensive based they might choose characters that allow them to zone, run away, timer scam, etc such as Modok, Dorm . Some players have a history playing underused or lower tier characters and have made a title or name for themselves doing so and due to that feel obligated to stick with said characters. Some players just like to play characters they grew up with or feel that they connect with. Some Players love item/projectiles… you get the idea.

There is **NOTHING **wrong with these tendencies or mentality. It feels wonderful to win with the character(s) you have grown to know and love or ending the game with the super long and convoluted combo you came up with after grinding hours in training room or being known for being competent and efficient with certain lower tier characters. It also adds hype to the game and makes it less stale. Let’ s just make this one thing clear though: If these previous tendencies are current tendencies for you right now, you are NOT playing to win.

The problem with this mentality however is that if you’re Playing to Win what **YOU **want, what YOU’RE known far, who YOU like doesn’t equate to SH*T.

Chris G understands this and while he might like certain characters over others, his teams are not comprised of strictly his fan favorites. Players these days are too wrapped up in their own personal desires and tendencies to make efficient and smart decisions and then want the answers spoon fed or the problem resolved externally instead of trying to surmise the **real **issue at hand. Oh so you’re known for your Hsien-Ko? Sorry, I didn’t realize your “fame” had the power to alter the game and change the character’s properties so they became better. Sorry kid but the world doesn’t work like that. You can be the best Zangief in the world but your matchup against Sagat isn’t going to be any less severe because your name is attached to it -_-. Oh you grew up with the RE series so you really wanna make Chris work on your team. Fine. But when I choose doom and float at the top of the screen the whole match leaving you laying on the ground prone crying yourself to sleep tonight don’t bitch. Hey dude, awesome combo! Too bad you got eliminated for pushing so hard to get iti when all you needed was xfactor to win…

Look at JUST the EC players. RayRay, Alucard, Yipes, etc all experiencing team changes from the characters they are known for. Why? Because they are establishing the mentality of Play To Win.

YOU CANNOT expect to be the best or beat the best when you’re stuck on Human Tendencies. A player with the TRUE **Playing to Win **mindset will **ALWAYS **beat a player without. Point Blank.

People need to understand that the true power behind Chris G’s success over EVERYTHING else is his MENTALITY. Chris has made it perfectly clear what his intentions are when dissecting a game and what his motivations and goals are when playing. Let me repeat this: Chris G, on MULTIPLE OCCASSIONS, has clearly stated what his goal is when training. He goes for the cheapest things possible. That’s it. And if you TRULY watch his matches and try to understand his reasoning behind his actions knowing his mantra, EVERYTHING becomes crystal clear.

Now that may sound vague but really think about it. When Chris plays, how many times does he ever really do the most optimized combos for that character, or use the newest or strongest tech for that character, or risky and insane setups, or randomness? RARELY. Chris has made it a point to learn only what was necessary. If his character possesses a 24-hit insane combo but it will only take 6 hits to kill your current one, the thought to do the prior doesn’t even enter into his mind. No decision must be made as it was decided the second your health originally depleted. When a reset Is necessary sure he could setup a complex multi-layered multi-staged setup utilizing his assists and broken mechanics… or he could call one assist, teleport, and then rapid slash and boom same result with 3 extra seconds saved and no resources spent/lost that he hasn’t already accounted for, neither is he put into an unsafe situation. Playing to Win.

Now this is not to say that in order to win you MUST pick the best of the best and drop anything and everything that isn’t optimal. You can still win a majority of your matches if you’re dedicate and experienced enough. However for those few times that come where your normal play just can’t get it done, unless you adopt the Play To Win way of thinking, you have no one but yourself to blame. Period.

Another human tendency that people these days seem unable to get over is the negative connotation towards counter picking. Anyone who is against counter-picking does NOT have a Play To Win mentality. Period. Same as someone who uses the terms “spamming” and who complains about grabs as being trash have a scrub mentality.

Players who refuse to adapt, don’t deserve to win.

Yes you can learn the Sagat/Zangief matchup. Yes you can beat it and no you don’t HAVE to switch your character to do it. But let me ask you a question: when money is on the line or when you skills are being challenged or your hard work is being trashed on… when something important is at stake, why knowingly put yourself at a grave disadvantage to your opponent? It’s equivalent to putting a handicap on your health before starting the match. Pointless.

There are plenty of teams that can beat Morri/Doom and plenty of combinations that can give that team a run for its money (will talk about later). But those teams might consists of characters or combinations of characters that you might not be privy to playing. Maybe the character moves slower then what you’re used to or maybe they aren’t a really rushed down based character or maybe they are a rushdown based character but they have to be played differently so as to utilize a specific tool or special ability to overcome the matchup. Whatever the case may be, it is up to YOU to accept what comes with the character and making it work for you. But the first step is accepting the fact that work is required and if it goes against your natural human tendency then it might be difficult.

Personally I feel that before any nerfs/changes are made to a game any and all alternatives must be explored before taking action so unless you can play each and every character in this game and at least know of every possible combination or possibilities, you got some practice to get to.

And what the hell happened to doing research? Does your opponent like to jump a lot? (cough cough Noel Brown cough You’re still awesome bro cough) How can you capitalize on that? Does your opponent have a hard time versus a certain character? Master him//her. Do you even know anything about your opponent whatsoever? No? Find some. Ask around. Watch matches. Challenge the individual. Sht I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been 0-10 by Josh Wong. Why? Because eventually he’ll kick the scrubby sht right on out of me. Everyone has tendencies and it’s YOUR job to find and utilize them.

THAT is the key to Chris G’s success with this team.

(Part Two on the way)

everytime someone thinks a character counters morrigan they get bodied.Remember when everyone said hawkeye would counter her?or dormammu and modok.hell i even think rocket raccoon can do decently against morridoom since he can go underground for 3 secs

against a morrigan on point what about assists that nullify or reflect the projectiles from the front, back, and up. reflector type assists, shield type assists but you have to position yourself inside of it. preferably ones that stay out there for a good amount of time and quick enough to be sent between fireballs.

or against ground fireballs send out an assist that comes out from behind to absorb the fireball from behind with point countering with a hgher durability projectile or super.

outside of rayray using the second strategy i’ve never seen anyone try using these strategies.