I had thought about doing this and someone in the tier thread mentioned it earlier.
List your current main team and how you think it deals with Morrigan/Doom between the point/second and anchor. Do all 3 characters with or without assist have a fighting shot or are you up the creek if left with a certain one? Does your team have ashot whether Morri is on point or in the second spot?
What team(s) do you think would do well or possibly eventually counter MorriDoom?
Do you believe the team is truly that unbeatable or do you believe its more Chris G?
I’ll also list who has stated their opinion on the Team or Chris G thing.
Shell is basically unbeatable once conditions are met/he found an end game team = Ultimator, D4Gamers
Chris G is Chris G/Other players not optimizing teams = DevilJin01, LegendaryDJ, Climhazzardous, Lanzoma, AzureJericho
**Both **= Phantasy, mega_buster (more towards Chris G)
My current new team that I’m maining is Viper/Strange bolts/Dante jam. I believe pretty much every character on the team has some type of answer to Morri Doom. Viper…I’ve already explained enough especially if she’s on point and low on meter. Can put projectiles on the screen faster and with more durability than Morrigan. Bolts and lasers take up the full horizontal space for a very long time and cuts off her abilit to use an assist to set up AV to begin with. Things go bad Viper has a lot of air options to start burning things out or if she has meter can go HAM with EX thunder knuckle or seismo to get in. Just have to be careful about her building a second meter and DHCing into Vergil if that is who is second.
Strange especially with meter and jam sess can help get projectiles on the screen quickly to soak things up. Mystic sword should easily be able to cut off missiles calls and/or keep her at bay from the projectiles she throws from the air. With meter you have vishanti to instantly blow up any bad fireballs and blow up missiles also if she was near Doom. Projectile counter super can clear things up and blow up Doom assist also. Plus HAM teleports.
Dante has plenty tools of his own on point especially with Devil Trigger. Thunder bolt and vortex are both great for pressuring Morri’s fireball and normal game and cutting off missiles calls. Especially with bolts assist could work well even if she’s in AV.
Not going to list any specific teams but I can see teams with point Hawkeye, Viper, V.Joe, Magneto and Firebrand especially doing well in the future. Rushdown types still strong at running in if she’s on point before she gets started.
That’s just against point Morri. More characters/teams should be able to handle second spot Morri although that may end up being her most dangerous spot in the future.
I think its more Chris G than anything. Morri/Vergil/Doom is cheap…but too many people act as if the team is doing more work than Chris G is. Although Morrigan is one of the best characters at dealing with the start of the round…you’d rather be fighting her first than Vergil with infinite meter and missiles. Put together a team that can beat her flood and kill her off and set up guard break/unblockable on Vergil if she dies in the corner.
I main Thor/Dorm/Doom and am in the process of learning Ammy for Nova/Doom/Ammy. I feel like I can beat MorriDoom free because aside from me being the best Marvel player in the world, I’m playing my two favorite Marvel characters in the world, Thor and Nova. Not much else to it than that.
Really and truly, it all boils down to the player. Chris G’s team allows him to afford mistakes while still being able to control the pace of the game. Him being an exceptional player of the game just compounds the threat. I think the team itself isn’t really endgame, but it should ideally force players to pick up and master endgame teams. That’s pretty much the common sense gist of it all. Teams with characters that have all their tools optimized should be able to fight it. Players with the better grasp on the game should be able to beat it.
In theory if Firebrand gets enough pressure on Morri before she pops Astral Vision then my team has a chance, and there’s a DHC to Dorm so that he can get in safely and wreak havoc.
Sentinel in the back probably doesn’t give me too much of a chance, though.
Thing is, Jrosa, who is arguably a bad player, is placing very high with Morridoom. So it’s not just ChrisG.
I think the team is endgame because of how much of the cast it shits on. Morridoom should never lose once it gets started. The things that can supposedly counter it are usually theory-fighting things, minus Viper’s EX Thunder Knuckle, and that’s only safe if she XFs or has more meter.
There’s been nothing that’s been a proven counter, just a couple of things that give it a harder time, like Nova or Vergil.
Also, I play Hawkeye religiously, and I can safely say that he should get bopped by Morridoom. Gimlet is decent, but it’s not that good against her since she can flight cancel to block, plus if she’s on the ground she can use her invincible level 1, and if she has Vergil or some other character that can combo off of it, Hawkeye is as good as dead. Any projectiles he has that beat multiple soul fists have too much startup, and his main super-jump height controlling arrows have far too much startup to be able to get them off against her.
None of my teams should win against morridoom…Zero/Ammy/Phoenix has no answer to anything Morridoom can do, and Hawkeye/Ammy/Frank is almost as bad against it.
Are you talking once she’s in astral vision or before astral vision? I personally feel her on point is the best position to get at her before the astral vision takes place that locks up most of the cast. Usually the Morri player wants to wait to get to near 2 meters before activating so running away won’t burn out their astral vision on the first go.
Do you feel point is her best spot?
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well I have a few teams but all of them have haggar in and the ones that do well have deadpool in as well so I’m going to start with haggar vs morridoom if I dont stop it before it starts I’ve lost haggar simple as
however deadpool is a lot better by himself with a reset or two morrigan is dead like haggar (but without the reset) plus he can avoid the chip and get in with a bit of luck
together I prefer deadpool with haggar because I can either risk a tac and then do a THC which will kill morrigan for sure or go for reset.
with haggar with deadpool assist I just have a better chance to stop it before it starts or THC to snip missiles
I play the same team as Chris G, so obviously I lose.
Morri/Doom has counters, which basically boil down to, 1) Limit the ability to call Doom safely (e.g. EM Disruptor), and 2) Limit Morri’s air movement options. You need to shut down both, arguably in order, or one will facilitate the other…and the problem is that most teams are not built for this. Another problem is that characters who could fight her when properly assisted have a bad start of the round vs her, or have no way to avoid AV chip. I’ve found that a properly assisted zoning Magneto is hell to fight, because H disruptor eats through fireball + morri + doom, is air-ok, and he can float outside of SJ Soul Fist range vs AV. Mags can also convert into TOD from nearly everything, so there’s that.
It’s a mix of Chris G being extremely solid and top players who are on his level not adapting their team vs him. It was great to see Marlin Pie fight correctly at APEX, and RayRay seems to be looking at other options, so it is possible we’ll see Chris struggling in the future.
I feel like he can get away with a lot of unsafe movement, which makes Morri/Doom very oppressive, because nobody other than top players punishing him for it…which makes Morri/Doom look much better than what it is. Of course, just because it’s unsafe doesn’t mean it’s easy to punish…
Vergil/Doom/Dante, Dante/Vergil/Strider, and Viper/Doom/Strider.
I’ve played quite a few morridooms and characters matter quite a bit but movement is even more important. That said I have played Chris G in tourney and he is on a completely different level than the other ones. We have a few here I 3-0 regularly and I’m quite sure I would scrape Jrosa but Chris is what is making the team win. Dante/Vergil/Strider is as close as you are going to get to a true counter as dante has the moves to ward off soul fists and point jam session+vajra will always keep her honest. Every hit he lands should kill and if you dies Vergil comes in with bars plus Strider which really messes up her inputs.
I like MODOK/Dorm/Doom against Morridoom. Dok basically gets free pressure at the start of the round, and if it comes to the zoning game, L blaster cuts through fireballs. If I hit Morrigan with a blaster, I can confirm that into HPB, XF, and kill her, then setup an incoming unblockable setup. If I hit Morrigan and Doom with a blaster, once again, I can confirm that into HPB, XF, and kill Doom and probably Morrigan (I’ve recently updated my 2 for 1 combo in this situation and haven’t tested it out on Morridoom yet). If I hit just Doom, I can do HPB, DHC to Chaotic Flame, XF, and do purification + missiles spam or do Chaotic Flame again. AV activations are also punishable with HPB and Chaotic Flame. If she ever manages to get AV out, Dok can wait it out pretty effectively.
Dok’s M cube anti airs a lot of her approach options, and can be confirmed easily into a full combo. L bombs, barriers, and TK cubes are also very effective against her approach.
Viper solo has some tricks to get in through the maze and stall it out when necessary between Burn Kick Feints and Focus Attack. While you wouldn’t want to sit around eating the chip or full damage, being aware of your options, especially those that can get you through the maze for attacking or evading/escaping is exceedingly important. You don’t want to freeze up the moment the first missiles call goes off or Astral Vision is activated and Mistress SouSou gets her groove on. Viper also excels in the one aspect I feel will become increasingly more important as that meta evolves, sniping Doom (or any assist) safely and often times even outright killing them off a good Laser or two or so Rapid Seismo volleys. Even if you don’t get the kill (and really, don’t go HAM for that much, patience is key), you already put it into the MorriDoom player’s head that you will be aiming for their assist and thus you force their hand to either rush or zone harder with Morrigan alone. This leaves you at complete advantage because Viper is the best counter character (for rushing) and can safely protect her own assists while dealing with the field. Viper’s being played optimally here with Jam Session and Vajra assists which make it hell for Morrigan between their uses as anti-air, and Jam’s nifty projectile eating properties. As I can almost make their calls completely safe (need practice with AV patterns) so long as I have life to spare with best Vipson (call Jam or Vajra - dash up Focus Attack to absorb projectiles coming in from the front), the real trouble is making sure you aren’t caught with one of Morrigan’s insanely active normals as the player transitions from zoning to rushdown.
Viper is also one of the characters in the 1,000K for a meter club so there should be no problem dismantling the succubus if you’ve gotten a good confirm. If you didn’t you should only need the DHC to Million Dollars to clean things up.
When Viper goes or gets switched off, we get to Dante who I feel is the de facto counter pick to Morrigan. Period. Mobility out of the ass between his excellent kara/plink dashes, Devil Triggered flight and (most importantly) his multiple kara/plinked dashes in flight mode:
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Means he should rarely if ever sit back and drown in the sea of Soul Fists or Hidden Missile barrages. Multiple large area covering projectiles with durability enough to eat a few Soul Fists lead to him being able to cover any assist with the easiest thing ever (literally a :dp::l:, people don’t use this enough in the neutral). Even better is the idea that with an additional cancel into Devil Trigger he becomes a character that gives no real fucks about anything in this matchup short of Morrigan’s buttons if he’s forced to block (t which point you have to ask yourself what you did to get him into a situation where he had to block) or some nutty anchor/point that compliments the Morrigan/Doom. For stalling there’s flight (seriously, Triple Jump xx Fly. Call stupid assists that won’t get caught up in the maze and dash around forever), Vortex, Air Play, Thunderbolt (which is doubly excellent for sniping Doom assist as it shows up) or just general shenanigans with the previously mentioned Twister, Crystal/Million Carats, and Jam Session. Backed by an assist like Vajra and it doesn’t take much more than one opening in order to totally shift the momentum his way as even a bad confirm afterwards can be rectified via his many potent Grapple resets or a good DHC (for consistency’s/peace of mind’s sake) or lead to an outright loss of the character depending on the resources you wish to burn. The only problem this team configuration has in this matchup is that Dante gets no mileage off Burn Kick assist in the neutral, so Vajra has to be used liberally and looked after properly.
Strider solo however is a situation I have no absolute counters with. As anchor Strider, you want to keep playing the anchor Strider game. Use your mobility between his Melee like ground dashes and Excaliburs to stay in the spots she hasn’t reached yet and make your way through the maze. Hold on to as much meter as you can and should you have XF3 or 3 meters, force her to block Dark Orbs Strider. You can attempt to snipe an assist with Gram Hs (MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A FORM B ON STANDBY) but it’s highly recommended that you don’t throw them out all over as one bad one will doom you against a good player. Chances are, if you’re fighting a full team with Strider solo at this point, you definitely will run out of X-Factor before character three and at that point it’ll be entirely about pure honest Strider play, something few people at this point have gotten down reliably. Strider has the same issue as Dante with this team configuration in this matchup in that in the neutral out of the other two assists allotted to him, he would definitely prefer having Jam Session to make walls or dance about with in the maze.
I mostly agree with DevilJin in that it’ll be a well balanced/supported team with multiple characters (or one doozy point character) that can brawl and dash while getting those hits, something that negates the flood entirely, or ones who get that hit easy and go bat shit from start to finish that will show up to wreck the MorriDoom stuff. The problem is…
Chris G is so fucking experienced at this game through months of playing it and sticking to his shit that he’s at a point far beyond where the verage person’s fundamentals and UMVC3 specific fundamentals will be. To put this into perspective with a dorky analogy, Chris might not even be playing with the best Pokemon available to him, but with how much work he put in, what’s a team of level 10 “absolute” counters to him going to do when he grinded his shit to level 50?
I honestly think it’s the team, It’s definitely the strongest team out there right now. Though I Do have this secret team I’m working on that I feel will most definitely make Chris G’s team look like free.
The most important part of the match against Morridoom is the first 5 seconds, of course everyone feels that if they can touch morrigan it over, they win. That’s thing, can you touch her?
I have been playing Morrigan since Vanilla and Doom ever since I saw ChrisG use Doom, and the absolute main problem I have is Vajra. It doesn’t matter if it hits or not; it forces you to block, attempt to hit Strider, or move forward, slowing you down. Pair it with an aggressive character like Vergil, Dante, or Viper and playing can be a nightmare of trying to keep yourself calm and your inputs accurate.
Even at this point I don’t think it’s just ChrisG, because who has played him using Viper, Vergil, or Dante paired with Strider on a regular basis? EC is content with playing with their own characters, and I respect that, but it’s truly heartbreaking to see people put ChrisG on this pedestal when other Morridooms are struggling to reach his level because we play against opponents willing to adapt.
I feel my main team (Magneto-disruptor/Task-horizontal/Dante-jam) matches up fairly badly vs her if the Morrigan player knows what they are doing.
Magneto has no problem fighting her if she uses the grounded patterns of fireballs. H disruptor + assist support covers that well and clears missile calls. But vs normal jump/superjump patterns his options are more limited and in Astral Vision his ability to lame it out is flight dependent so if he gets hit by missiles he’ll be forced to fall. Fly xx Blasts stalls for a decent amount and so do superjump Magnetic blasts, but he’s limited as his air actions don’t keep him fully stationary(except hypergrav). He has problems rushing her down with how good Shell Kick and her Fireball coverage is. He can fight her off with Disruptors if she’s predictable, but if you utilize superjump blasts you give her free astral vision activations, and boxdash/normal jump blasts dont have a good angle to zone vs her. I don’t feel the Matchup is in Magneto’s favor when she’s properly assisted, he can definitely fight her but relies on her to make mistakes. 6-4 Morrigan at least.
Taskmaster just sucks in the Morrigan matchup, Shield Skills + assist is useful when she’s outside of astral vision(so is Shield Skills xx H Arrows), but overall his zoning and keepaway game is fairly useless vs her as she has better fireball angles and higher durability/better flood capabilities. In Astral Vision he has 0 options besides taking that chip or using supers. One advantage he offers in the mu is that Doom calls become completely unsafe as he can snipe them on reaction, it just requires meter. My Task relies on THC unblockable setups and Jam Session based rushdown/zoning, it’s just that it’s hard for him to rush her down and I can’t really keep her durability out. 7-3 Morrigan and also relies on the Morrigan player making mistakes for me to win(IMO his worst matchup, Vergil is second)
Dante does fairly well vs her, just anchor Dante is not as good vs her as he can’t teleport + beam or Vajra behind him to keep him safe for the mixup. Teleport + Vajra is her worst nightmare and Dante is the best character at abusing that. Tempest xx DT is a very good way to neutralize Astral Vision, spam Thunderbolts all day, take the missiles reset your air actions and spam thunderbolts again(not vs Vajra though ). I like Dante in this matchup, DT fights her well, and well assisted he beats her, I’d say it’s 6-4 Dante normally, 7-3 when Dante is assisted(vs Morri/Doom, not vs Morri/Vajra).
I don’t like my main team in that matchup though, and take the easy way out with Hawkeye/Dante/Strider or Dante/Hawkeye/Strider which give me mindless advantages over her in many aspects. Vajra is a very annoying assist for Morrigan to deal with, especially with someone who is better at flooding the screen than her(Hawkeye) or Teleporting behind her(Dante). Hawkeye and Dante have a clear advantage in the matchup.
My thing more so is I believe there’s several other teams that will come up in the future that can either beat her doing stuff similar to what she does at the round start. Especially if they’re projectile based.
I was talking about when she pops astral vision. Non-astral vision is smoke what easier to deal with.
As far as placement for her goes, I think it’s a toss up - having her second with the right point character is great for getting meter for her to DHC in, but at the same time, she is one of the best point characters in the game herself. It’s pretty much whatever you’re more comfortable with.
Hmm, interesting point. Would Tatsu blow up all low fireballs while ducking under high fireballs or would Akuma get hit? If so, got a new reason to play Akuma again.
). I like Dante in this matchup, DT fights her well, and well assisted he beats her, I’d say it’s 6-4 Dante normally, 7-3 when Dante is assisted(vs Morri/Doom, not vs Morri/Vajra).