you could practice ST playing against the computer for 24 hours a day, unless you play humans, your not going to learn much.
PS. can someone link what the original graphics was supposed to look like?
i will find as much as i can, i think people forget just how good the graphics were, possibly close to SF3 quality.
If the good players stop attempting to correct people that are wrong there would be less arguments jajajajajaja. =D STAY WRONG SCRUUUUBS! Who wants to hit up dat A.C jaunts with me?
Okay, but how does your comment explain that quote is not true? Even if these 3 guys are consistently top 8 at most major tournaments, that would still seem like a small minority. Wouldn’t it? Also I think my questions were valid ( Are these guys consistently top 8 at tournaments?/ They were both never ST tournament players?) depending on the answers this can really hurt the claim that most HDR tournaments aren’t made up of entirely former ST players.
Actually, these are Kurropi’s words, " Seriously. Look at who dominated HDR tournaments. Aside from Snake Eyez, it was almost made up entirely of former ST players"
He never said that Snake Eyez was the only one, but his point was he was one of the very few. You winning a tournament or two doesn’t disprove that statement, it only defeats a statement that wasn’t even made. It seems that most of the major and even (minor?) HDR tournaments are being largely dominated with former ST tournament players.
I simply disagree that the top echelons of HDR players are dominated by former ST players.
Yujiro Hanma = Alt account of a butt hurt ST player haha
Check this guys post history only 14 post all defending ST or attacking HDR
So I did a quick search of some tournament results. Mainly EVO and California tourneys but also threw in Devastation.
Not sure of some players so I put a (?) by their name. To the best of my knowledge, ST players are in bold:
**EVO 2009:
**
1. AfroLegends
2. John Choi
3. Damdai
4. Graham Wolfe
5. David Sirlin
5. Thelo
7. Alex Valle
7. Alex “Sin” Salguero
EVO 2010
- Snake Eyez
**2. DGV - Daigo
- AfroLegends
- Jason Cole
- Tokido
- Valle
- RyRy**
SoCal Regionals 2010:
1. Daigo
2. Alex Valle
3. Miles O’Keefe
4. Justin Wong
5. Count Fuddulous
5. Monogolo Robocop
7. Tokido
7. Bob Painter
West Coast Warzone 2:
1. Afro Legends
2. Snake Eyez
3. Alex Valle
4. DGV
5. Aqua Snake
5. Count Fuddulous
7. Mongolo Robocop
7. Blue Tall Cans
West Coast Warzone 3:
- SnakeEyez
2. Hugo101
3. Valle - evoanon
5. Viscant
5. MonGoloRoboCop - Voltech
**7. DigitalInfamy (?) **
NorCal Regionals 2009:
1. John Choi
2. Alex Valle
3. DGV
4. Mongolo Robokop
5. Anthony “Vestax” Nguyen (?)
5. Richard Li (?)
**7. Jason Cole
7. Eric Choi **
NorCal Regionals 2009:
1. John Choi
2. DGV
3. Alex Valle
4. Buktooth
5. David Sirlin
5. Random
7. Oliver Cheng (?)
7. Jason “Lights Out” Valle
NorCal Regionals #8 (Nov 2010):
1. Daigo
2. Alex Valle
3. DGV
4. Mongolo Robocop
5. ST Playah
5. Buktooth
7. David Sirlin
7. BlueTallCans
Devastation 2009:
1. Choi
2. Watson
3. EA Megaman
4. Stiff Peter
5. GamerTron
5. Justin Wong
7. One Handed Terror
7. Sabre
Devastation 2010:
1. DGV
2. StiffPeter
3. MonGoloRoboKop
4. EA Megaman
5. Vegeta (?)
5. Voltech
7. Sabre
7. Captain Ruru (?)
Here are a few more to bold:
-Thelo had been playing online ST before HDR came out (although I don’t think he entered an offline ST tourney prior to the HDR era).
-RyRy is a player from the MD/VA region and had entered CCC2 ST tourneys prior.
-BlueTallCans is Antonio, who first broke on the scene with ST at Evo West 2007.
-Hugo101 is KP, who had been playing ST since at least the CVS2 days.
-Random is a well known online ST player (although I don’t think he entered an offline ST tourney prior to the HDR era).
And yeah, GamerTron has been a longtime ST player. Otherwise, I have the same question marks you do. For EC and midwest tourneys, you’d see similar ratios between HDR-era and ST-era players. There are other points I could make but this topic is ridiculously tense so I’ll just stick to the facts for now.
Originally Posted by geo
“My comment was in response to the statement “Look at who dominated HDR tournaments. Aside from Snake Eyez, it was almost made up entirely of former ST players”, which is not true.”
Geo, in the interests of the overal argument and let me make it clear we are on the same script for the most part, it may be necessary for you to backtrack a bit here and i did think that when i first read this post.
It is indisputable that a lot of people who cut their teeth on ST did well at remix tourneys and most of the top 8 were ST players
However this post will address this point and demonstrate that it is in fact a moot point in the context of this thread’s discussion.
Let us not get sidetracked, this isnt about us and them or who is best or even ST vs Remix. Many ST players love remix and vice-versa. No, rather this is all about a bunch of haters and obstinate geriatrics with a bit of intellectual leadership who just so happen to play ST. This is about challenging that hegemony and exposing the motives. Understanding that a few egomanics want to derail remix for their own selfish ends.
I want to quote an earlier post of mine to show that i spoke only of a “New breed” and never once said that new breed cant be formed of old ST players.
“Just as Jeff Plumber peddles the lie of Tomo and the golden era, hiding behind myths and reputation, certain embittered individuals peddle the lie of baby zone in insolent envy of the new breed of player that is dominating in tourneys.”
Its important to make this point as your comment has and will be hijacked to further false arguments. Let me reiterate this is not an attack.
kurropis stats make for a pretty convincing argument and could ostensibly be said to speak for themselves, however they dont tell the whole story.
I think we are in danger of looking at this whole thing in terms of black and white. The argument is in danger of being skewed and hijacked in the wrong direction because of a discussion that played out earlier in the thread where we spoke of remix players that never touched ST but became experts.
Certainly there is a case for that as demonstrated by Plush and Snakeyes. Also im sure both snake and plush would say they arent unique in that sense and there is a veritable laundry list of great online players who never touched ST.
However that is a seperate discussion and we must be clear that when we speak of new breed of player, that could mean someone who never touched ST before remix such as Snake or Phlush but equally someone like Daigo who has an open mind and likes remix a lot.
There are others who are probably indifferent to the whole debate and just play the game but are fantastic players on both ST and remix. They also represent part of the new breed of remix player.
So the fact that ST players are on that list is pretty much a moot point. It doesnt mean they hate remix or arent remix players. They are remix players by virtue of the fact they play remix and entered a remix tourney it just so happens they cut their teeth on ST. These players could very easily be part of the new breed that is taking over on remix, and indeed some are. Not all will have entrenched attitudes, they were willing to apply their considerable ST expertise to remix and try something new and it paid off for some of them.
However as we also know there are ST players who couldnt step up to the plate, werent willing to level up, people who hide out on GGPO and wont get on remix, dont attend remix tourneys or maybe attended tourneys but never achieved or got clapped by snakeyes, plush or indeed any of the new breed of remix player.
These players are the butthurt generation we speak of, people who actively hate remix and want to crush it just because they dont achieve on it, cant/wont level up and wont play second fiddle in the interests of the preservation of the beautiful game.
These people are the enemies of great SF2, they believe they are bigger than the game and will ultimately contribute to SF2 as a whole’s demise.
Remix players must also bear some responsibility. Did we attend enough tourneys. Probably not.
I think in terms of practical solutions there are things we can do.
Attend and set up tourneys
Every good player on ps3 needs to migrate to xboxlive if they havent already.
Stop with elitist attitudes. Be more welcoming to newcomers, show willingness to teach people.
It isnt a given anymore that people will flock to sf2, they wont. Its a hard sell to noobs when you have the eye candy that is sf4, so we need to show why sf2 is the better game.
Accept our differences and celebrate our similarities. ST and remix can coexist, so both communities should weed out the haters and help one another out for the sake of the future of the game.
Some may feel the last point is rich coming from me. Im pretty vocal and attacking at times but this whole thing is a defence mechanism and a fightback against BS and lies and people who hate SF2 but love themselves.
Guile would you mind staying on topic. Thanks 
Let’s not resort to these false claims rcaido. I’ve never attacked HDR once on this board in my short time posting. All I did was ask some questions and asked some people to clarify/elaborate on some of their posts. That’s it. I think if my questions are answered accurately they may cause people to change their views, or at least bring to light the flawed logic used to support their positions. I can’t help if this may offend someone. I don’t see how anyone could be upset over any of my posts anyway.
*" Remix was responsible for bringing a lot of new players to SF. Many people who never touched ST became experts at remix"
–Elton Chong.
*
Where are all these new players? Why aren’t they showing up for tourneys? Who are the “many people” who are currently experts at HDR without having touched ST?
Above was the original post (yours) and response (mine) that started this whole side discussion (Kurropi’s first post was adding on to my own). I haven’t seen a clear response to my questions yet. Your newer post seems to take this side discussion even further adding the “new breed of hdr player” element to it, which was not my original concer**n. In context my questions and some other posters responses (ie Kurropi) were legitimate, and I hope when you mention that posts were “hijacked to further false arguments”, you’re not talking about any of mine because in context they all were legitimate.
Absolutely true, most of the HF community had never played ST before they transitioned to remix.
Phlush, snakeyes, Narc Ceasar ( i think ), i’m 99% sure the guy who started this thread never touched ST and he is a very decent player. Travellin Penguin became very good, the list goes on. I dont think Super1nyc played before but i need to check that, Aquasnake.
As for why they dont attend tourneys your guess is as good as mine. I know that for many its a huge commitment and they cant balance work, kids and family life with tourneys.
But dont dwell on it too much it was a flippant ( true ) point made in the context of move execution and doesnt have a huge amount to do with the matter at hand which is embittered haters who wont/cant level up and have an agenda.
New breed = The opposite of the butthurt generation, Remix player, willing to move with the times, willing to level up whilst taking their losses, willing to work for the greater good, people who place Sf2 before ego, open minded, accepting of difference, integrity and honesty ( after all everyone wants to be better at the latest and best version of SF2 ) and irrespective of background or game experience whether it be tekken, HF or ST.
*Phlush, snakeyes, Narc Ceasar ( i think ), i’m 99% sure the guy who started this thread never touched ST and he is a very decent player. Travellin Penguin became very good, the list goes on. I dont think Super1nyc played before but i need to check that, Aquasnake. --Elton Chong
*
Outside of the two expert players who were already previously named in this thread (Snakeyez/Phlush) You mention a few people you aren’t event sure of (Narc Ceaser, Guile75, Super1nyc) and name one (Travellin Penguin) who is only very good, which is at least a level below expert, right? Do you know for sure if Aqua wasn’t an ST tournament player before HDR? To write “the list goes on” seems a bit much when it seems, at first glance, that you have added only one player* for sure* to that previously mentioned list of 2 experts.
As far as the new breed goes, do you consider Daigo to be a part of that group? Your previous post on page 3 seemed to indicate that he could be.
Daigo Shmaigo… dont look at the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory. I just picked him as a ST player on the list of recent tourneys. I could equally have picked another person on that list of players, it’s just to illustrate a point.
Daigo isnt a serious remix player obviously, he is preocupied with ssf4 and probably doesnt even practice, but he is new breed in the sense that he keeps an open mind, he is supportive in his own perhaps limited way and has a progressive mindset.
He doesnt turn his nose up, he has spoken well of remix and said it would do well in arcades even though he lost to Afro.
Just think of new breed as the opposite of the butthurt generation and whoever fits that criteria is new breed.
It seems you want a comprehensive list of the people who never touched ST but became expert remix players even though it isnt relevent to the central theme of the argument. I’ve adressed that already.
If you want and just to satisfy you i will attempt to speak to people considered experts to 100% determine whether they played ST or not. It may take time.
Also let me reiterate it isnt relevent, it seems you are attempting to conflate the 2 distinct entitys of “new breed” and the statement i made about people who never touched ST becoming experts. I have already said that new breed of player very much encompasses old hands on ST.
Your unrelenting focus on that tells me you cant address the central point im making, that there are indivuals who are most definately butthurt and who are propagating the whole babyzone lie, attempting to sway opinion and suffocate remix to satisfy their own ego’s and so they dont have to play second fiddle and address their failings.
Out of interest do you consider yourself to be new breed or butthurt generation?
Very well said. This is really the key distinction and I’m prepared to accept that probably most people who are very good at HDR today played ST before. Certain people like SnakeEyez loom so large that it gives the impression that his experience is more common than it might be.