How exactly do cheaters cheat?

[skeelo58]

Yep I agree with all the above.

Which also brings up another Gief player Elkipor on PSN, seemingly a new Gief player on the online scene and has been doing well among the regulars, enough to gain a trophy achievement of “Turbo User!” In all seriousness, a lot of SRKers believes that he’s a turbo user. After playing him a lot more, I don’t think he is. He’s really good in reversals and getting the ticks if you don’t counter fast enough. I really don’t see turbo comes into play with Gief when he pulls off a “SPD”. I mean he still has to do the SPD motion (non-stored move). SPD still has one of the best priority in terms of range along with Sim’s throw.

I too, find the lag-switch accusation funny. NappyNightmares, who’s always mentioned as the guy with the switch. I usually hear this often on XBL since on PSN rooms break up faster than you can say lag switch. Being a long time player of HDR on PSN, I guess I can say I’m used to playing in lagged conditions and adapting to play very well with it as do many long time PSN HDR players who jumped to XBL over the past months. We know lag! Of course, playing in better condition is always better! I just think the connection between an opponent makes it appear that someone always lag. PSN has some known good players that always lag (Alpha-Kid or MrKaratey comes to mind), most are overseas like Japan or Central America but even some state side. It’s just when they play they can never get good a connection in a casual room >2 with most frequent players unless it’s 1vs1 setting.

I called Elkipor out on the Turbo rumors, and he defended himself pretty adamantly that he was NOT a turbo user. After messaging back and forth, it seems that he takes the game fairly seriously, and he hates turbo users as well, so I don’t really think he is a turbo user anymore… even if he does reversal SPD’s like nobody’s business.

[Elkipor]

I’m going to make it clear, I’ve never used any turbo or any similar thing, reversal SPDs? seems like no one ever has heard of “piano method” and combined with a decent timing also helps, so I have lost count of how many scrubs from this site and a bunch of other players keep doing false accusations, why? they can’t accept a legit loss, but if they make everyone believe is a loss made against a wrongly supposed turbo user, then it’s totally fine. it’s a shame how I only see 1% of quality members at shoryuken.com

[Grog]

Personally what I do is stomp their sticks before the match. IF I’m unable to do that I keep a bit of sand in my pocket and hit them in the eyes.

[Coth_X]

I’m going to make it clear, I’ve never used any turbo or any similar thing, reversal SPDs? seems like no one ever has heard of “piano method” and combined with a decent timing also helps, so I have lost count of how many scrubs from this site and a bunch of other players keep doing false accusations, why? they can’t accept a legit loss, but if they make everyone believe is a loss made against a wrongly supposed turbo user, then it’s totally fine. it’s a shame how I only see 1% of quality members at shoryuken.com

I wouldn’t say I’ve ever felt you cheat, but I tend to lag with you so I’ll just blame lag for any wierd spds I get from you. Idk about everyone else though.

[Lights_0ut]

Yeah nevermind…

[ratman]

I have a friend of mine who plays SF4 on the mad catz pad. I brang over my xbox with my arcade stick (which I almost never use) to test it out on HDR. On Hawk vs Hawk, I piano’d on the jab button while crouching on the stick, and it was completely identical to K’s piano’ing on that vid. On the other Hawk, I used the mad catz pad with the turbo on. I simply crouched and held jab and it can easily show its much faster than piano’ing on a stick by the much, much faster sound of the jab

Thats really odd, but I believe you and am genuinely curious about this. When I do a similar test on my PS3 madcatz TE stick I can’t see/hear any difference between hard pianoing and the fastest turbo (though I can’t maintain the peek mashing for more than a few seconds). But this could be explained either A) in the way the PS3 reads the joystick (different than 360?) or B) difference in the TE turbo and the mad catz pad. I’d be interested to know exactly what pad you were using and what system you were testing on. I don’t have any turbo controllers for the 360 so can’t really do a test (though pianoing on my 360 sticks yields nearly identical results as the turbo/piano on PS3, but thats not conclusive proof).

There is no explanation for how T.Hawk could cr.jab faster than once every 12 frames (according to YBH). That could only imply that no one is able to piano at exactly 12/60Hrtz without turbo. Which would certainly not be an issue of speed but rather timing:

Say you jabbed exactly every 11 frames (very reasonable, just < 6 times per second). So inputs would look like:
Frame 0 - Jab comes out
Frame 11 - Nothing comes out because you have 1 frame of recovery still
Frame 22 - Jab comes out (but you were crouching idle from frames 12-21)
Frame 33 - Nothing comes out , still 1 frame of recovery
etc.

So instead of having say 3 jabs come out between frames 1 and 24 (1, 12, 24) you only got 2 (1, 22) even though you are pressing the button faster. That would be the worse case, hitting every 10 frames would be slightly better, etc until you are inputing every other frame which would give you at most 1 frame of idle between jabs.

Still though this doesn’t mean the jab comes out any faster than what is possible with piano inputs and the right timing. I’ve never seen anyone (in a game or in a video) jab faster than K jabs in the linked video. If someone can provide footage of it, I’d be impressed (not an online game which has networking artifacts).

The only other explanation I can offer is that there is a legit bug in the game (for 360 I guess?) that causes sounds to play, even in local matches, more often than the jab can come out. Seems unlikely but possible.

[Vestax]

I’m going to make it clear, I’ve never used any turbo or any similar thing, reversal SPDs? seems like no one ever has heard of “piano method” and combined with a decent timing also helps, so I have lost count of how many scrubs from this site and a bunch of other players keep doing false accusations, why? they can’t accept a legit loss, but if they make everyone believe is a loss made against a wrongly supposed turbo user, then it’s totally fine. it’s a shame how I only see 1% of quality members at shoryuken.com

Well that’s good that you’re here to defend yourself. I’ll take your word that you don’t use turbo. Now the next question everyone is dying to ask, where are you playing from? The lag is kind of unbearable sometimes. I wouldn’t mind playing you at all, it’s just that I experience a lot of frame skips during our matches. I feel I need to reset my PS3 every time, I don’t know if it’s coming from my end or yours.

[EmpirioN]

Thats really odd, but I believe you and am genuinely curious about this. When I do a similar test on my PS3 madcatz TE stick I can’t see/hear any difference between hard pianoing and the fastest turbo (though I can’t maintain the peek mashing for more than a few seconds). But this could be explained either A) in the way the PS3 reads the joystick (different than 360?) or B) difference in the TE turbo and the mad catz pad. I’d be interested to know exactly what pad you were using and what system you were testing on. I don’t have any turbo controllers for the 360 so can’t really do a test (though pianoing on my 360 sticks yields nearly identical results as the turbo/piano on PS3, but thats not conclusive proof).

I was using my friend’s SF4 mad catz 6 button-face pad. But I don’t know, I could be wrong. But when I tested it, it really did show a difference. I’m going to try and record it and post it on youtube when I get the chance

[Rufus]

Thats really odd, but I believe you and am genuinely curious about this. When I do a similar test on my PS3 madcatz TE stick I can’t see/hear any difference between hard pianoing and the fastest turbo (though I can’t maintain the peek mashing for more than a few seconds). But this could be explained either A) in the way the PS3 reads the joystick (different than 360?) or B) difference in the TE turbo and the mad catz pad. I’d be interested to know exactly what pad you were using and what system you were testing on. I don’t have any turbo controllers for the 360 so can’t really do a test (though pianoing on my 360 sticks yields nearly identical results as the turbo/piano on PS3, but thats not conclusive proof).

There is no explanation for how T.Hawk could cr.jab faster than once every 12 frames (according to YBH). That could only imply that no one is able to piano at exactly 12/60Hrtz without turbo. Which would certainly not be an issue of speed but rather timing:

I believe that T. Hawk’s crouching jab chain (a.k.a. renda) cancels with itself, and I know that turbo 3 corresponds to playing at 75 FPS. The frame data for the jab is 4,4,6 - so 14 frames. I’m not sure how the chain canceling works, but my best guess is that, at turbo 3, 9 jabs or more per second is possible.

It’s also well-established that the sound on the PS3 performs differently than the sound on the XBOX in HDR, so you can add differing sound performance to your list of plausible explanations.

Thanks to compression, toutube video is quite terrible for doing that sort of fine grained stuff, though I’m not sure if there’s a better choice.

[zaspacer]

In my experience, lag is a matchup specific factor.

As a Dictator user, I have big problems vs. a laggy Chun/Ken/Zangief.
But vs. a laggy Claw (and probably Dhalsim) I seem to have a huge advantage.

On further playing, I do not think laggy Dhalsim is a good matchup for Dictator.
It’s like trying to thread a needle when you are drunk and someone is stabbing you with the needle.

[danmishima]

Well that’s good that you’re here to defend yourself. I’ll take your word that you don’t use turbo. Now the next question everyone is dying to ask, where are you playing from? The lag is kind of unbearable sometimes. I wouldn’t mind playing you at all, it’s just that I experience a lot of frame skips during our matches. I feel I need to reset my PS3 every time, I don’t know if it’s coming from my end or yours.

I don’t know where he’s playing from, but I don’t have the lag issues with him most of the time. If it’s a full 6 player room, I sometimes see it. But on the 2, 3, 4- player rooms, I have no issues…from Ohio.

[Mackdaddi]

there really is such a thing as being good at playing in lag. You need to shift your playstyle a bit away from reaction and towards prediction, and depending on the severity of lag, do your inputs earlier than usual (doesn’t apply to HD Remix as much as with other games, but still). In general, defense (including reversals and reaction) is harder in lag, so you can often get away with a recklessly offensive playstyle

I Just wanted to agree with this. I don’t like playing in laggy conditions, i would much rather a fair offline fight, but playing on the net, lag is going to happen from time to time, and the one rule i follow in laggy matches is ATTACK. I play a fairly attacking, mobile character anyways, but in laggy conditions, i really try to step on the gas and pump out as many attacks as possible, and move around as much as i can because it makes things a lot more difficult for the other guy.

The one thing you can turn to your advantage with lag is decreasing the reaction time available to your opponent to defend or counter a move because of frameskip. You’re more likely to get away with stuff you wouldn’t otherwise, and less likely to successfully defend them. Random pokes or spamming fast moves that would get you killed offline is a lot easier than having to adjust your muscle memory for a defensive reversal to compensate for lag, and your opponent would do exactly the same to you if you let up on the attack for a minute, so DON’T. If you sit back and defend in lag you’re going to be on the recieving end of the spam and rollback crap, and it’s going to happen to one of you, because somebody has to be attacking, so why not be the guy that takes advantage of it instead of the one that eats it?

To me, once i see lag, it’s “RTSD” time. Laggy games suck, but i would still much rather win one than lose one, before i move on and find a lower ping opponent somewhere else.

Oh, and for anybody that doesn’t know what “RTSD” means: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=R.T.S.D.%20"Rush%20That%20Shit%20Down"

[Shari]

Oh, and for anybody that doesn’t know what “RTSD” means: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=R.T.S.D.%20"Rush%20That%20Shit%20Down"

I like this definition better: [media=youtube]q9XEO275-GA[/media]

[Mackdaddi]

I like this definition better: [media=youtube]q9XEO275-GA[/media]

Heh, i love that clip. It’s so nice to see O.Sagat Bullshit being smashed the fuck out of

[KAOSPIDER]

I like this definition better: [media=youtube]q9XEO275-GA[/media]

Yikes. It’s not often that I’ll applaud a Balrog for winning but that pressure was suffocating.

On an unrelated note, why is it that people seem to make accusations of “cheating” when they lose? I can’t count the number of times that I’ve been accused of cheating someone out of a win by using “lag switches,” “turbo,” “macros” (whatever the hell that is) or programmable controllers. Often, these accusations are levied shortly after ragequitting. Is Fei so lowly regarded that losing to him is simply unacceptable for some people? I often think to myself, “you thought that I’d be a free win didn’t you Honda/Vega/DeeJay etc?” Ha!

[EmpirioN]

Heh, i love that clip. It’s so nice to see O.Sagat Bullshit being smashed the fuck out of

lol then you’ll love Valle (O.Sagat) vs Kuni (ZanGief) [media=youtube]MseoSZO7hAY[/media]
Quite possibly the worst O.Sagat beating in history (lol)

[Shari]

Or in the case of pure rushdown…

I would suggest watching some Guilty Gear Clips.

[media=youtube]3zRxruGr8-o[/media]

[Fulaani]

Kuni is a legend, that video is too much.

But as a Blanka player I have to ask what is more rushdown than meeting Aniken in X-Mania and opening the first round with a walk up bite, opening the second round with a walk up bite, following that walkup bite with a walk up bite, then moments later meeting daigo and opening your match with a walk up bite?

[EmpirioN]

Kuni is a legend, that video is too much.

But as a Blanka player I have to ask what is more rushdown than meeting Aniken in X-Mania and opening the first round with a walk up bite, opening the second round with a walk up bite, following that walkup bite with a walk up bite, then moments later meeting daigo and opening your match with a walk up bite?

lol yea I love that video, Komoda, the last contender of his team, comes in and cleans the house. Its always highly skilled low tier players that always amazes me, especially komoda and pony

[Mackdaddi]

I like this definition better: [media=youtube]q9XEO275-GA[/media]

By the way, this may not be the best place for this question, so apologies, i’ll keep it short, but on that clip it looks like daigo buffers a rush uppecut special move into a super for the win in the first round. I didn’t know that it was possible to do that, is buffering a whiffed special into a super that overlaps the motion for it something that’s specific to boxer and his wierd charging abilities, or does it apply anywhere else in the game?

He looked like he headbutted over the low tiger shot into a grab, then whiffed the rush punch straight after and immediately opened up into the super without building up a second charge. I can buffer normals into super no problem, but i’ve never seen anybody buffer a special into a super. What’s the motion for it, is it something like:

(charge):r:, :l: + :lk:(hold), :r:, :l: (release :lk:) ???

:wtf: :looney: