You seem to play dangerous and risky, adventurous and free, and really really expensive.
I suggest to others to listen to you if you have anything more to input on the matter since every other point I make is ignored.
I’m about to reveal some pretty dumb BFF JIll+ Frank info for you folks.
On the P1 corner side: you can do Jill’s regular BnB (j.HS,M,H,2H,4H,22S,Somersault,j.HS,MMHS,Cartwheel, Somersault, MGS)–> which causes your opponent to fall on the opposite direction of the wall. You can DHC into blue light special and combo after with a Snapshot or Launcher.
Frank is BFF with everyone! He’s trying to help them get to the safe house! But on the real, alot of characters have great synergy with Frank, and when i say alot i mean off the top of my head i can’t think of a character who doesn’t either have an assist or a super or a particular move that really helps Frank level up.
Frank is really versatile and can fit on almost any team! He’s alil risky to play, but if you like the high risk high reward playstyle (and i know i do) then you can definitely make him work into almost any team!
I really suggest to people to start working with Lv1 Frank, alot of people sleep on him and he has alot better matchups then people think! I’m surprised that people aren’t working with offensive Snapshot/assist for lockdown pressure. I’m aware that the move isn’t even safe on hit, but that doesn’t matter if most of the cast can’t punish!
aside from the basic dante combo i use, theres also dorms liberation. 2 red 1 blue lets you either hard tag into frank after it. or use it as an assist for 3 snapshots :3
I kind of liked calling his Liberation assist to cause meteor showers after an air combo for two or three photos.
Test
like this.
[media=youtube]b9QS7GYdBRw[/media]
Point Frank always. Dormammu and Frank = BFFs!
Frank can do the same thing off so many assists…I get instant lv5 off any 1 hit (since i start the match with frank on point, start the match with a meter, and all my combos build atleast 1 meter) and even if i cant THC i can still do double snapshot. AND even if i dnot get 2 meters i still get lv3 + reset opportunity.
Frank has synergy with so many people…
Honestly, I don’t like starting with Frank on-point. Even backed up by assists, his level 1 has some really bad matchups and shopping cart is so good that it’s a waste to not have someone on your team make use of it. That said, I believe he belongs on the second spot of a team so you can DHC into him and he gets a picture.
I believe it all boils down to choice of preference.
I’ve come to accept point-Frank as a choice resulting in a very high risk for a very high reward. If you’re successful, Frank’s THC’s are potentially lethal and can level him up right away. Having Frank on point is also a good way to practice and become disciplined with his lower levels in the case that you don’t level him up to chainsaws. Of course, you’re still playing with a very limited character until your level-up to 3 or higher.
With Frank second or third to be tagged via DHC and/or hard tagging, it’s much safer and you get a great assist; but many tactics result in a whole meter or two being used for no damage or powerup, which bothers me. There’s also TAC, of course; and while it does work really well when it works, that chance of failure is not very nice.
Frank is very risky yet well worth it. You just have to choose which risks you’d rather take, I think.
Well I run Nova on-point and I find it completely worth it to spend 2 bars on level 5 Frank. Since you do it by DHCing out of Super Nova, you’re not exactly wasting damage potential for it and level 5 Frank is worth any amount of meter you had to spend to get there.
Lv1 Frank really isn’t too bad as long as you have a very solid basic game. If you have good defense, level 1 Frank can hold his own and i dare say, yes i say it, even BEATS some high tier characters.
Some of characters i know straight off the bat that shouldn’t be too difficult:
Wesker
Dante
Nova
Hulk
Wolverine
Thats just off the top of my head.
However he does have some absolutely terrible matchups.
Also make sure you include assists in all this, assist play is super important for Frank, but he can do a very good job of controlling other assists with snapshot. Call Assist -> Snapshot is a super great tool as long as you dont get too predictable with it. I use Weasol Shot for its range but it lasts much longer then any beam. i can still use it for snapshot relaunch in combos, but its great in the neutral game as well. On top of that i use Akuma B for getting people off me and just rushing down in general, with Akuma i can turn snapshot hits into combos in the corner (which i can bring people too quite often with even Lv1 Rushdown frank). Best part about Akuma compared to Weasol Shot, is that Snapshot/akuma combos as long as you aren’t maxing out the range, while Weasol Shot doesnt, leaving a very small frame trap that’ll stuff out most supers and any mashing the opposing player might be doing. Plus its not easy to pushblock as well, if they go for a pushblock and miss, Weasol Shot hits.
If i had to say anything thats underused by Frank players, its the offensive ability of snapshot and Giant Swing.
OH and J.M, which is the most godlike anti air i’ve ever seen it has so much range… you’d be surprised what things a well spaced/timed J.M completely stuffs. I know it sounds random, but imagine a wesker doing jump back gunshot (an extremely, extremely common thing to see from a wesker lol). Test out the range that you can anti air with a J. M and convert that to a combo (so easily J.m, J.h j.S land then ground series but be sure to do Cr.M instead of S.M for more consistent results) I’m talking about Lv1 Frank not even lv4/5…We all know what J.M does in 4/5.
Yo my bad i kinda went in i just love this character lol.
heh
the other thing i think thats better about playing him on point, is that since im a high health character (1050 is in there haha), i can survive any 1 combo in a real match most likely. I can always tag him out with a semi safe dhc of shopping cart/devil trigger and in that case i still get the benefits of if he had been in 2nd the entire time, if dante lands a hit at all i get to lv frank up (and he recovers life) and tho i may have less health…rofl its lv5 frank i think i win about 80% of matches i get lv5 frank probably more but tryin to estimate. I understand that obv sometimes Frank will just die, and i’ll have to rely on just dante/akuma, but thats much better then if you play Associate1/Frank/Associate2 and Associate 1 dies and you’re left with Frank/Associate 2. is spending 2 bars to save a character worth it? For a character who functions like Frank West does, i’d say that spending 2 bars to give myself ->another<- chance to make the match very uneven is definitely worth it. Thats just me tho.
I actually just started using the camera offensively since I saw you doing it the other day. I’m so mad I didn’t come up with it myself.
I like to use it in the air combined with Arthur’s daggers to completely halt their aerial approach and deal some good chip damage. Works wonders to flat out stop approaches for a little while, and it advances Frank’s surprisingly passable camp game. Sometimes, it will even get me to Level 2; which is great because of the health boost, and having that roll really helps.
I’ve KO’d a few characters who cannot easily retaliate under fire from Frank’s object throws, hammer throws, and assist buddies; mostly from chip. If they’re stubborn enough to try and approach, I still have options such as the camera, crouching heavy, jumping medium, and possibly even a roll.
FRANK WEST is right about a lot of things, but I was unaware of the benefits of being on point. Given the opportunity to tag out, your point character can potentially recover well over half health, giving Frank an even longer lifespan beyond level-up health bonuses, a few more chances to make it big without having to possibly dip into your anchor, and a great assist for everyone else. I think that’s really cool.
Frank is so much fun from beginning to end.
^
Frank is free to Dante at L1. Dash xx Reverb > Kneedrop(His only way to get in, really), Hysteric + Airplay > Frank’s distance game. If Dante feels like burning meter for DT, it becomes a joke. Feel free to chip with Jam Sessions for lulz, if you have trouble just dashing under a superjumping frank.
And pretty much the whole cast can punish camera on hit. It’s not like it’s -5, or something. It’s -25. That’s “Get hit, recover, dash and slap him in the face” territory.
Frank firmly belongs in a #2 position, where he can depend on a considerably stronger character to get him to L4, and where he still has an assist to avoid a terrible L1 Anchor Frank situation. For serious, people. His normals have great priority and all, but L1 Frank is slower than Haggar with half the pipe.
Shopping cart is not a safe out; it has a slow startup that is easily stuffed, and no invulnerability. It loses to a dozen hypers on reaction(Which means Dante gets hit, XF KO). Nor is it realistic to think you’ll live in the first place. A good player with a good team will either kill or reset you anyway.
IMO the only justification (and it’s a weak one at that) of putting Frank on point is that if he dies first, at least your other two characters have the potential to work together to get the job done, whereas Frank second often means the team falls apart if your point character didn’t level him up. That said Frank is wholeheartedly lackluster on point level 1, needs assists to make anything happen both for opening up opponents or leveling. Zombie toss is nice but the startup is too high for most zoning, and Frank will be hard pressed to get anything higher than level 3 off a hit confirm unless the assists are optimized/he’s got a power up hyper in the 2nd spot.
I haven’t tested that in training mode yet but the durability on Hysteric’s missiles is seems very low. I’m pretty sure Frank’s object toss (toward H) beats it. Though some missiles might get through if you don’t attack early enough.
You should not actively want to play level one frank. If you’re stuck playing level 1 frank you messed up somewhere. You should obviously know how to manage his toolset at level 1 for when your plans go awry, but let’s not go nuts and say he’s better than he really is. I love the guy, but level 1 frank + assists just plain isn’t as good as everyone else + assists.
The most efficient team setup looks like, for now:
Point: character that opens them up easily, that can switch to frank via hard tag or DHC
Second: Frank with cart, helping the point character
Anchor: Character that can help level frank effectively if point dies (dante with weasel shot looks like literally the best possible option in this slot).
It also helps if one of those two characters can help frank level up via assist help, or have assists that support frank’s roll mixup.
I am starting to think Frank is most useful as third slot. The assist is too good to pass out and if he was second, the damage he could have racked up can be a big minus. Likewise, if your point character did not do their job, having Frank second really cripples the team (when lvl 1).
The way people have their teams set up now is the old MvC2 set up:
- Battery
- Someone guaranteed to lvl up Frank to 4-5
- Frank (an assist for the most part, until lvled up)
I think this set up is optimal because you don’t have to worry too much about a bleeding Frank (unless snapped in). You also get to guarantee yourself the meter to DHC until your heart’s content. If you get happy birthday, you won’t be stuck with Frank usually since you’ve been using his assist (hopefully), so your second should come with full health and stocked with meter.
There are two big problems with this set up though: 1. If Frank is last while only lvl 1, comebacks are gonna be hard. Granted you can too insane damage at lvl3 xf, but you’ll have a hard time approaching and oping people up. 2. It’ll take longer to lvl up Frank and that can get risky, which in turn can lead to the first problem. This order has been something I’ve been considering (after a period of debating to drop Frank because of problems of having him second) and am happy to see good results from top players like J Wong. I kinda prefer this order as it lets me be a little less conservative in my approaches and playstyle. It also lets me use other characters on point that I would not have able to when I want to play Frank second (My new team now would be Nem/Dante/Frank or Dorm anchor depending on matchup or if I am bored). Sorry for this long post, but it seems like something people should consider when thinking of new team set ups.
I have been running a slight modification of the above team idea as Nemesis, Skrull, Frank (I just like Nemesis ok). And with this team I have found lots of interesting synergy that can just build meter and do damage all day long. Trying to learn a good way to run a reset heavy Nemesis in order to keep the meter up and I just found a fairly easy Skrull combo that I can land from anywhere off a command grab into a guaranteed Frank lvl5. Can you say double anchor when that shit happens?
Just gonna repeat what I said in the teambuilding thread, since I find it relevant here.
I run Frank West (Shopping Cart), Iron Man (Repulsor Blast), Strider Hiryu (Vajra)
Strider’s assist is just there since Frank really sucks against characters that fly around all day and play lame.
However, for the other two, I level up Frank using Iron Man’s assist. I usually do
cr.M, cr.H, S, L, M, M, H, Air S, jump, Air Tools of Survival H, cr.M, cr.H, S, L, M, M, H, Assist (Repulsor Blast), backdash, Snapshot x2, followed by a hyper if possible.
This nets a Lvl 3.
Either I end it like that or instead of calling the assist, if I have 2 bars before my opportunity to call an assist comes, I backdash then do a THC so Frank can take a picture right when Iron Man’s Angled Proton Cannon ends. This gets a Lvl 4.
also, I’m new to the notation so any help would be great.