Same thing happens with default actuator. It’s happening before the actuator engages. It’s something with the dead space.
ignore that thread besides being old is all speculation.
The whole thing of Shin Etsu G 40 vs Shin Etsu G 30 is (according to maintenance manuals and part catalogs) that one is preferred by Seimitsu and the other was perfected by Sanwa.
The whole difference scientifically is one grease is a little thicker than the other, for our purposes that differences are too tiny to really matter (the G 30 is a bit thinner).
I Don’t use either Shin Etsu grease, I use Dow Mollykote 44m which has the same mill specs as Shin Etsu G 40.
Thanks. I’ll keep the 30. Seems to work fine.
I think I figured out the issue I was having. Camacho told me it may have something to do with the washer, which it does. The washer is moving around a bit (which its supposed to, right?) and the spring holder was getting caught in it. I changed the spring holder and that seemed to fix the issue. I still hear a little sound, almost like the washer clicking or moving but its not that bad. That spring holder seems like it may be a tiny bit bent, which was probably causing it to get caught. I think the washer may be a little bent too. I need to try and do some research on the size of the HHS washer so I can get a new one. Its cheap and it can’t hurt. The JLF washer is too small for the spot so I imagine that won’t go well. There are some threads about people gluing their washers down but I’m not sure if that’s a) the right way to go and b) even going to hold up more than a few weeks (if that).
I’ve got some more tinkering to do, but any insights would be sincerely appreciated. I’m really curious as to how much the washer is actually supposed to move.
Edit: **[This thread](Hori Hayabusa Joystick/Control Lever Preliminary FAQ... UPDATED with pictures says that the metal base washer ‘appears to be a JLF clone’, which it isn’t. The HHS washer is larger.
I looked under the washer of an old JLF I had laying around and there was, what appeared to be, lube between the housing and the washer. If the washer wasn’t supposed to move there wouldn’t be lube under it, and since there was I can only deduce that it IS supposed to move around a little bit. Interesting… After I figure this out I’m going to do a comprehensive cleaning and relubing video. There are so many people asking about it and the only thing I’ve seen shows just the pivot being lubed and that’s not (in my opinion) correct. You can tell someone to lube any moving parts but they’re still going to be confused (as per what I’ve read on countless threads). I’ll make a video of taking everything apart, cleaning it with alcohol and then relubing it. I’ve always lubed the bottom half of the shaft, the pivot, the bowl that the pivot goes into, the longer side of the spring holder, the side of the spring that goes into the actuator and the top of the actuator that the e clamp touches (in order to try and prevent the e clip tearing the plastic as much). Now I’m thinking that it may be beneficial to lube both sides of the metal washer. The metal washer moves around a little bit in its housing and the plastic spring holder makes contact with and glides around the washer. I imagine a little lube could help with all of that. Granted, I’m still talking about using about a pea size for the entire stick. I know it sounds like a lot of parts but I think that’s how the JLF’s come. Looking at this old JLF it seems like there’s lube on pretty much everything that I’ve described (except the spring and where the e clamp is but that’s not really important). Just an idea, that’s all.
I really do not recommend gluing that washer down as it was designed to move around.
That washer under the spring holder is supposed to act like a bearing, allowing some movement side to side as well as circular movement without tearing up the plastic main body.
If anything I would put some light lubrication on that washer.
Also I can’t imagine how a plastic spring holder; which is probity nylon, ABS or delrin plastic gets bent, especially in a NEW Hayabusa joystick.
We also have to consider the Hayabusa is made out of better materials and more constant build quality than the Sanwa JLF.
Thanks Dark. For all the help you’ve given this community we should all pitch in and get you the**darth vader click clack** mechanical keyboard key. The real one (non knock off) only goes for about $400 so its not too bad :).
Do you recommend putting lube on both sides of the washer? I can’t find the size of it anywhere. I know the e clip is 3/8 (I need to go buy a few more because my floor is terrazzo and I keep losing them) but the washer is something I’m going to probably have to hold up next to a ton of different sizes to find.
Edit: Difference in JLF and HHS washer size. JLF is smaller.
Image 1
Image 2
Edit: was trying to title two different spoilers. One image 1, other image 2 and just post the images that way. Apparently you can’t title spoilers.
Since both surfaces can be the subject to movement, I say lube both sides very lightly.
You just need a very thin coat of grease.
The HHS and JLF uses the exact same e-clip (as for the actual size I often forget).
And you guys don’t have to get me anything, I got more than my fare share of free items from the community over the years.
They use the same e clip but not washer. The e clip is 3/8.
EDIT: E clip is not 3/8, despite what research I did. I went to home depot and the only thing that seemed to match (ish) was 1/4. The inside of the eclip is the exact same size but the outside is bigger. I’ll take a picture later.
I also tried finding the HHS metal washer but could not. The people there couldn’t find it either. Does anyone have any clue how to go about getting something like that without having to buy an entirely new HHS? I searched around and couldn’t find one. Could someone with a micrometer take exact measurements?
Edit 2: Also, just curious - how long do theses jlf / hhs springs even last? How often should you replace them? Searching lead to nothing.
Edit 3. I think some of the JLF parts and HHS parts are different. The pivot in the HHS looks a little bigger than the JLF pivot. I’ve mixed around my peices too much to know what came from where, but I’d be very interested to do a side by side comparison of JLF and HHS parts down to the last one. I know they may seem like minor differences, but they’re there. This thread has some wrong information. Namely the fact that the metal washer is the same when its bigger in the HHS. I’ve taken this HHS apart like, 50 times and tried 50 different things. I’m just going to order a new one. I tried using the JLF and I can’t stand it by it self and it just feels weird with the kowal. Hopefully a new HHS won’t get caught on my kowal like camacho says his does. I’m also going to order a new kowal since it can’t hurt to have an extra and the top of mine is getting torn up pretty badly. HHS + kowal = the best thing ever. If only it didn’t feel and sound so harsh when you hit that gate I would be the happiest kitten princess in the world.
Here’s a better picture of the inside of the bowl. I think it may have gotten scratched because I was using the wrong lube in the past. I don’t know where I got it from, but I’m pretty sure krytox thick (which isn’t even very thick) isn’t what I should have been using. I think the HHS is just busted. That scratch must be causing all of these issues. That’s the only logical explanation.
You are supposed to use a medium weight, dry, non-conductive, synthetic silicone based lubricant
Never use any organic based lubricant, food grade lubricants will cause rust and petroleum base lubricants will dissolve plastics.
So no Petroleum jelly for your stick.
This is why I am pretty adamant when I tell people to stick to just Shin Etsu G 40 or Dow Mollykote 44M.
There is ALOT of different grades and types of lubricants, even if you focus purely on dry silicone based grease.
Keep also in mind both Shin Etsu and Dow Corning makes a silicone based thermal paste for your PC’s CPU.
PC thermal paste acts like a glue and will seize up your entire stick.
Shin Etsu 7783 Silicone PC Thermal Grease
Anything for Plumbing is also a NO-GO.
Shin Etsu G-30 is often found at Honda Dealerships and authorized repair centers. Its an automotive grade silicone grease used to lube break systems and to preserve and maintain rubber weather stripping.
Keep in mind the Honda dealership does not sell Shin Etsu to the public so don’t even try.
Stuff that made to loose bolts, STAY AWAY FROM IT, IT IS THE DEVIL!!!
Just go to Paradise Arcade, Focus Attack, Aki shop or ETokki, any one of those four sells the correct grease.
Don’t trust Home Depo, Lowes, WallMart, Auto part stores, Radio Shack, Fry’s, Ace hardware, Wallgreens, CVS, Target, Ride-aid, or your local dollar store.
Yea, I’m aware now. I reagreased it with the shin etsu but I think the krytox damaged it. You already said the 30 and 40 shin etsu are, for my purposes, the same so I don’t need to return my 30 for 40. My local honda dealership had no problem selling me the 30 for 20 bucks, fyi.
What I had before was http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=756. It says here: Krytox® oils and greases do not damage plastics or elastomers nor cause corrosion to metals. If it doesn’t cause corrosion to metals how the hell did my HHS insides get scratched up? This whole thing is vexing the balls out of me. I’ve tinkered for two days straight and every time it seemed that I fixed it, it just started up again in some form or another.
My local Honda dealership stated they can’t because of licencing and sales issues and it goes against corporate policy.
Ether my guys are jerks or your guys just don’t care.
About Krytox. Yeah see Krytox Switch Lubricant is for mechanical Keyboard switches, maybe, maybe other microswitches and thats it.
Don’t use Krytox ever on a Joystick, that stuff (even the “thick” formula) is not thick enough for arcade part use.
I have no bloody clue what you did to your Hayabusa to ruin the whole thing. You got mystery stains and parts that don’t get subject to those kind of forces getting bent, at least not from regular play.
Another lube option to consider is Super Lube synthetic grease over at Harbor Freight for ~$7. It’s even USDA food safe, amusingly enough.
Any mid-ish viscosity, explicitly plastic-safe grease should work just fine.
Absolutely not
- Food Safe lubricants are the worst thing to put into a arcade stick or cab.
- the exact specs on this lube is not known
- Why would you trust your expensive arcade stick to a $7 lube from Harbor Freight, the king of el-chepo tools.
- and at $7 for a 3oz tube its more pricier than Molykote and Shin Etsu which is $20 for a 20oz tube.
Dark that’s why I had the krytox - for my mech keyboard(s). I’m an enthusiast. I thought ‘thick’ lube would work well on my stick. Well, I was obviously wrong.
The pieces aren’t actually bent. I thought they were barely bent somehow but they’re not. Its just the actual shape of it. I don’t play rough at all. I try to barely move the stick. I almost never even hit the damn gate so I have no clue how the insides of my HHS got (what appears to be) scratched.
Okay, something super interesting here. I was saying that the spring holder was getting caught on the metal washer. Well, guess what? I was using the JLF spring holder. Everyone seems to think the parts are the exact same but they aren’t. Again, that srk hhs info page is wrong. Take a look at the side of the spring holder that was getting caught. Its shorter on the HHS one, therefor doesn’t get caught. The two on the left are my two JLF spring holders and the one on the right is the HHS. I only have one HHS but I have multiple JLFs so I was able to determine that the one different spring holder was obviously the HHS’s. With this one installed into the HHS I am no longer having that particular problem.
But they are…
http://www.super-lube.com/oil-with-ptfe-ezp-83.html
http://www.super-lube.com/synthetic-oil-with-ptfe-high-viscosity-ezp-56.html
Nevermind. Its still doing it. Here’s a video I took.I don’t bother putting the switches back in and screwing everything down because it doesn’t make a difference. I don’t move the stick any more than it would move with the switches in place so that’s not causing it. I have my hand on the other side of my joystick case moving the stick. I have the top half leaned up against the back of a chair while the bottom half is on the seat portion. That allows me to back the balltop all the way against the chair back so I can easily push and secure all of the components onto the shaft without the shaft moving. For whatever reason the popping mostly happens when I move the stick down. Its not just the noise, its a tiny amount of resistance too. I’ve tried more lube, less lube, no lube and everything in between. I’m not sure how the scraches inside the bowl would be causing this, but they must be because everything else seems fine.
No Honda dealer I have been to has had issue 1 with selling lube. Worth a try if you feel you MUST have Shin-etsu. Telling people not to try is kind of silly. Not like you’re in danger of being arrested or banned from the dealership or something.
Not to be insulting to the guy, but don’t mind Dark, he’s super paranoid about greases. The Super Lube Synthetic Grease with PTFE Sycolon (teflon) is perfectly safe and it’s my choice lube. I think it feels smoother than MolyKote 44, less sticky, less gunky. I’ve been using Super Lube for a few years now with no wear on my stick. It’s definitely plastic safe 
Plumbing greases are also safe but not the viscosity people should want. I have a container of silicone plumbing grease, it’s the same stuff as arcade stick greases just way, way thicker. Useless for our purposes.
That’s the exact one?
Yeah, that’s the exact one. The multipurpose stuff. There is a silicone version as well, but I haven’t used it yet. The multipurpose works really good.