@chaoslimits lol of course we do XD where did you order it from by the way?
I posted the link in the Hangout thread.
Hayabusa isn’t really between Seimitsu and JLF. It’s basically a JLF with better materials and better machined parts. They’re more accurately machined and the plastic is much higher quality and less likely to wear over time. The switches were softer than a JLF, and the spring was about the same. Switches are mounted identically to the JLF and the layout is identical as well. The throw is .5 mm larger, and that’s about the only differences. Unless Seimitsu sticks have the same engages, which is very possible, then it’s way more JLF than Seimitsu from a pure design perspective. Of course, having the same switches as Seimitsu sticks probably changes the feel to more Seimitsu like, and I know once I put a Seimitsu spring in it, it felt pretty damn close to a LS-Series.
This is why I say it’s basically a higher quality JLF. Same measurements, same stock spring tension, and minor throw difference. Less load bearing on the pivot gives a bit faster movement.
I have a brand new JLF that isn’t used so no wear on the actuator, I will double check the actuator in the near future, but I’m sure they’re nearly identical.
Anyway, that’s how I sum it up. I’ve already taken back my original statement on it being like a Seimtisu, since I was clearly wrong. Other than the gate screwing in and the switch brand, it doesn’t have anything else in common with them.
You have absolutely no argument whatsoever to back up these wild claims, and honestly I’ve never seen a “worn JLF housing”, usually the pivots die first and are easily replaceable.
If you feel this joy is more to your liking, if you feel it better , good, but don’t say it’s “higher plastic quality” when you know zilch about plastic quality and are guessing in the dark, stay real for a second.
Hori’s old console sticks that featured non-sanwa and non-seimitsu buttons but buttons made FOR Hori were subpar compared tu genuine arcade buttons but still acceptable in general. A bit like the buttons made for the Dreamcast stick, aceptable but not good enough.
Now that Hori is sellling aftermarket buttons that can FINALLY compare to Sanwa and Seimitsu, some people think that it’s going to be leaps and bounds in terms of higher quality when really it’s going to be just another variant on the standard pro arcade hardware, not better, not worse, similar.
the real plus of the stick is the modding friendly options, that’s about it, too much is being spread as rumors about supposed “higher quality”.
Only time will tell.
You have to be blind to dare compare the Hayabusa to a Seimitsu LS32.
some parts were clearly designed with improved JLW sturdiness in mind:
-blocky housing where the microswitches are entirely protected from the exterior, going a step further than with a JLW then, which is a true improvement for some and not a real necessity for others (an “open” type of joystick like a JLF may also evacuate dirt and debris faster than a “closed” one like a Hayabusa
-“screwed in” gate akin to what is seen in chinese JLW inspired clones (some have a square gate, others a diamond shaped one) , very different than the multi-gate seimitsu plates. Some guys tend to forget that JLW gates were screwed in with the possibility of rotating them.
-what is definitely more JLF than JLW is the plastic pivot in the Hayabusa and the absence of levered switches, other than that…
The V cam system is propriatary to HORI so zero inspiration from other companies but I understand why some think the closed nature of the Hayabusa led some to think there was soemthing LS32-ish about it: the LS32’ steel plate.
Unfortunately, the steel plate is not a gate, it’s just a plate made to support the flimsy seimitsu LS32 gate and to hold still the microswitches. Worse, Seimitsu made a serious mistake with them as the steel wasn’t tooled precisely* and sometimes “bit” into the actuator, leading to premature wear. Anyone who abused an AES SNK stick with a varaint of the LS32 knows it.
On the contrary, the Hori Yahabusa gate acts like the JLW gate: it is a real gate, holds the microswitches in place and closes the bottom end (more so than the JLW).
Even if I strongly disagree concerning the “V cam system”, I think hori did the right thing with the gate by going a step backwards with the JLW in mind but making it wider. The gate from the JLF with it’s little black plastic ergots menat to clip on the gate really surprised me the first time I saw it, in the bad sense. Vene then, JLFs seem to hold well and the ergots don’t break but it’s more precise to have a screwed in gate: less wobble , which can count a lot for some players.
*seimitsu ls32 steel plates seemed to have the center square hole punched to size, the edges being poorly finished if at all and the tolerances very approximative. but it held well the microswitches in place, the only “plus”.
If gamers are looking for something that has the best of three worlds- much more than the Hayabusa in terms of design IMHO , the low priced “modding friendly” stick sold at paradisearcadeshop has:
-a screwed in gate resembling a LS32 but (according to the photos) much thicker
-a plate under the gate supposed to hold in place the microswitches, also screwed in, resembling a JLF in shape but without the clips
-the possibility of levered or non levered switches installed with a japanese overall style of housing close to a LS32: the new photos show cherry switches but I’m sure ultralight 15-20g zippys can make their way too.
-a steel pivot similar to JLW (according to what I’ve read but still to be confirmed)
THIS is really an astute blend of the three, miore than the Hayabusa if you want my opinion.
I’ll have to ask my nephew to test it out when available.
As for the LS32 type gate, I’m sure with minimal tooling, a wider gate “Hayabusa style” or “JLW style” could be easily made, you only need to know how to tool plastic and know the angle of the sides of the sqaure gate.
(No I’m not endorsed by anybody, nor an old forum member in disguise and no I have nothing against any company , just to clear things out.)
mods: please blend in with the former comment, I’m not used to the not posting multiple time rule, sorry, I’ll try to make bigger posts then.
Dude. The actuator and gate are higher quality. I’ve seen the wear on the stock JLF actuator enough times to know that.
snip
There aren’t 50 grades of delrin (or POM H exactly) in the gaming industry.
From the photos posted, it’s obvious the Hayabusa actuator has a better finish than the JLF.
As for being “higher quality plastics”, not one person here can bring proof of that unless they have access to Hori’s industrial specs that would mention a special grade of the same material.
You’ve seen worn to the bone JLF actuators - and I did too- for 2 reasons: JLF has been on the market for decades which means you can observe old units as opposed to Hayabusa who just recently appeared on the same market , and the finish isn’t the best on those JLF actuators while the Hayabusas are super smooth on the photos and have a cleaner look .
This being said personally I think the LS32 is the model that wears actuators the fastest with players who “ride the gate” .
As for the housing, I’m really curious to see a JLF whose -housing- would be worn to death, only actuators: I’ve never seen such a wear issue.
You can’t imagine how a part slides better in this type of bearing when properly finished, it’s unbelievable, precision tooling isn’t enough (parts such as actuators are not molded to final specs, they’re supposed to be tooled from a preshape), you have to remove the burrs, rough spots and smooth it to almost mirror finish.
As for the gate, I’ve said in my former post I wasn’t fond of Sanwa gates, not concerning the finish but the “clip-able” nature of it and the fact that it’s PC. PC has outstanding shock propeties but it is not abrasion resistant (except if coupled with a soft material actuator) and is not optimal for slide bearings.
On the other hand, even if I’m not a fan of JLF gates, as oppose to the actuator or the housing, the gates are well finished, whether square or octogonal (since PC isn’t “bearing” material , it is crucial to have it as smooth as possible if making a gate, same for PMMA)
This super high toughness (PC is used as a laminate to stop bullets in vehicles) makes PC the material of choice for big name companies and independent modders …even if the friction numbers aren’t so encouraging : as I explained before, to have acceptable sliding properties, it suffices to pair such gates with actuators with the lowest coef of friction possible.
For gates I prefer “screw in” by far. As for the Hayabusa one being made of PC I have doubts about it. There’s all sorts of plastics that feel alike and it’s easy to make wrong assumptions.
I think I’ve “insightful’d” half of your posts lol. Good stuff! What Paradise stick were you talking about in your earlier post? Do you have a model number/link?
@agieze these *wild claims" come from people that have been avid contributing members of TT for years and just so happen to seriously know their shit.
I can speak from experience with the stick you mentioned; it does have a steel pivot and I can quickly confirm that. Its funny concerning the gate since it is screw in and has seimitsu labeled right on it, except colored orange (but i guess that could be taken with a grain of salt since anyone can put that in a design). There really isn’t room to use levers since the actuator is already almost making contact with the microswitches, but you could if you use zippys, silent omrons, or other switches that actuate fairly low.
However the one thing i couldn’t get past was that it had a similar if not greater deadzone in comparison to an LS-56, a point where the H-stick and LS-32 have points over it since they have less deadzone and are more snappy in their recentering. I could wiggle the joystick around neutral a fair bit. It was a bit sad that the stick couldn’t use shaft covers or JLF sized dustwashers but i guess I could do a give and take on that aesthetically.
Don’t get me wrong it’s a nice stick. But even with the RGB LED shaft that I had mine with I still preferred any seimitsu stick over it, but it still managed to top the JLF IMO. Eventually I switched back to the LS-56 when I had it.
I’m not sure if this is what you are thinking but the Pink top and the new stick that Bryan revealed are not the same thing though it’s possible that they’re similar in design.
I think the differences are in the stock actuator, shaft, and switches. Now the stick has an adjustable actuator, cherry switches (i don’t remember what switches were in the old stick but they weren’t zippys, omrons, or matsushita for sure), and the shorty shaft, which is a good thing since the last shaft was freakin tall! It’s like a JLF with an SS plate except that’s the height mounted on a flat plate.
Get real a second will ya. Being on a forum for 20 years wouldn’t make someone an expert in polymers while a few years studying seriously would do.
I agree some parts are better finished than on a JLF, as finishing permits better sliding (how many times should this be repeated?), but saying it’s a better type of plastic while claiming it’s the same material in other posts is contradictory, especially from people who do not have industrial spec sheets and denigrate others because they’re new on the forum.
I speculate too, but there’s a limit, and I try to see all possibilities when I emit an idea.
@Pnoy Pride
From the photos, it seems this orange gate is thicker and sturdier than the SS32 gate. Can you confirm this? Did you try this alternate joystick without the seimitsu stamped gate and only with the plate held by 4 screws that secures the microswitches (and is also a gate itself) ?
I don’t have a seimitsu gate from a 32 so sadly I cannot confirm anything regarding the thickness of the gate in comparison to the stock sei gate.
However I did try using the stick without the seimitsu stamped restrictor gate. The result would be no different from the stick with the sei stamped gate screwed in 8 way directional restriction. The plastic under the sei stamped gate is in fact a restrictor gate, and is much more compact when you use just the mentioned gate.
That’s not enough… A guess is still a guess even if it’s a well educated one.
Pnoy, I like the analysis of the stick. I’m only going to comment about this once here, because this is Moon’s thread and the subject is not the shorty. At this time, the only piece used from the Pink stick that everyone can purchase now is the body. Every other piece on the stick is being replaced with custom built hardware. This isn’t just a matter of changing the micros. The gate, shaft, actuator, top plate, spring, and more are all swapped out. The new stick should have a completely different personality when compared to the original.
I will start a new thread for this discussion and post a link.
On a better note… Hayabusa will be available from PAS this weekend!
@chaoslimits what was a guess though? If the Hayabusa has better engineered parts than a Sanwa that’s not a guess 
God dammit, I hate seeing that guy’s posts when people quote him since I have him on my ignore list. In the spirit of not having my thread mucked up by ridiculous claims, yo, delrin is a better plastic for actuators and pivots over what JLF is using. JLF is most likely using a delrin pivot, which is just fine for the purpose it’s used for. Delrin has high hardness and really low friction, it’s one of the best plastics to use for moving parts and has many industrial applications because of it’s strength, lightness compared to metal, and the low friction “self lubing” properties. Considering that, and how much the Hayabusa borrows from the JLF for design inspiration, I doubt they’d use a lower quality pivot when they’re trying to make an obvious effort to have a better stiIck than Sanwa.
Considering how well Hayabusa’s plastic parts keep their polish and the hardness of them, we can conclude from the body being delrin that the pivot and actuator are also delrin once you factor in the application the plastics will be used in, which is a high friction environment. The actuator on Hayabusa is MUCH harder than the JLF’s and does not bend if you lightly squeeze it like the JLF’s does. It keeps its shape better and will, with 100% certainty, outlast the JLF’s actuators over longer periods of play. I’ve seen some bad JLF actuators, even new ones look shitty, you could try to polish them but the plastic is so soft you’d most likely end up breaking it. Considering the pivot, actuator, and flange are all made from the same god damned plastic it’s safe to say they’re all the same material and factoring in Hori’s goal of keeping friction to a minimum based on the body’s material and the v pivot house is designed to also keep friction to a minimum that yes, the parts are all delrin.
So, lets look at the application here. A piece of plastic that hits a pretty hard piece of plastic at random and rubbing against said plastic. What’s the superior material to use in this instance? A soft, pliable and easily worn plastic like what the JLF uses? Or, a plastic with very high hardness and self lubing properties? The latter wins hands down, since the hardness takes a beating better and the self lubing properties means it lasts longer as it slides against the other piece. I know the actuators on JLF are not delrin for sure, I can attest that it isn’t ABS either (it doesn’t melt in acetone) and it’s most likely not nylon (Seimitsu parts are nylon) because most nylon pieces I’ve used in the past have all been harder. Either way, it doesn’t matter what they’re made of, the fact that the parts are harder and keep their shape better means they’re going to last longer under these conditions than the JLF actuators. We can take from these observations that the Hayabusa is using higher quality parts, hence, higher quality stick compared to JLF.
I don’t get why this guy is so anti Hayabusa. I do not make these claims from fanboysim (I actually don’t care who makes what as long as it’s good, in fact I’ve retracted my statements about JLF being completely shitty, it’s only partially now 
) but from strict observations. The parts on Hayabusa are machined better, it’s obvious once you compare them, especially once you take a look at the actuators.
Agieze, quick coming here and mucking up my thread. You a) do not have a Hayabusa and b) have not used one and c) can’t make any observations of your own since d) YOU DO NOT HAVE A HAYABUSA. All you’re doing is ranting and raving against the stick and derailing the thread.
For comparison, I actually a) have a Hayabusa b) have made observations of Hayabusa c) have corrected any wrong observations of Hayabusa and d) base all my conclusions on the facts drawn from the observations, I’m a bit more qualified than you when it comes to Hayabusa talk. At least I actually have the fucking stick and I’m objective about it, rather than making wild conclusions and rants with no facts to back it up.
I’ll repeat again for the sake of the thread, Hayabusa is not Seimitsu like nor between a JLF and a Seimitsu stick, it takes all its important design aspects from a JLF, and borrowed some non-JLF tweaks maybe from Seimitsu, maybe not from Seimitsu. The only things Seimitsu like are the gate gets screwed in and the brand of switches. The comparison ends there.