As far as JLF vs Hstick goes, they are almost identical in feel except for the ridiculous smoothness on the Hstick. It’s worth taking a break from JLF; I gained a lot more respect for it after playing on Seimitsu’s for a while. I know the OP describes the Hstick switch type and layout as Seimitsu inspired but the descriptions I remember and my own personal opinion push it toward JLF clone…
George, I have an H stick mounted right next to a JLF on my cabinet, I can assure you the throw is longer on the H.
What is it that makes the Hayabusa recenter so much better than the JLF? It seems to me that it is either the spring flange, pivot design, or both since everything else is basically straight JLF.
I did a fit-test on the HRAP 3 SA with the Hayabusa.
The joystick installs fine… The issue is with the 5-prong adapter and unfortunately it’s not a matter of “cutting plastic” or rotating control lever PCB’s to make the 5-prong fit better. Cutting plastic worked fine with the Mad Catz TE Rounds 1 and 2 but not with buttons. The 5-prong adapter of the Hayabusa was definitely sitting in place right on top of the “X” button position on my HRAP 3 SA. Not a good thing!
(I guess you could always move the “X” button" wiring over a spot and keep the original “X” hole position empty/plugged. Kind of ugly-looking but it would probably work. You definitely need a wired “X” button at any rate to deal with the Menu Bar on the PS3. For whatever reasons, my HRAP 3 SA wasn’t working without a wired in “X” button, either…)
It’s not a matter of rotating the PCB for clearance. I just couldn’t make the Hayabusa work correctly with the Hori HRAP PCB any other way but to have the 5-prong adapter pointed inward and sitting over the “X” button position.
The Hayabusa’s 5-prong adapter can be an issue with HRAP’s or Mad Catz TE’s depending on how the joystick PCB is supposed to be oriented inside the case. For about half the HRAP’s I own, the 5-prong adapter is supposed to orient towards the center of the case and that can be a problem if the buttons are spaced closer to a bulkier control lever like the LS-32-01 or Hayabusa. 5-prong clearance can thus be an issue with the HRAP 3/3 SA, Arcana Heart 2 joystick and the Tekken 5/American joystick if you keep the original Hori PCB… If you remove or button plug the L1/L2 button positions on HRAP 1/licensed HRAP’s, the 5-prong clearance stops being an issue because you’ve opened up space between the control lever and remaining 30mm buttons. Likewise, you could discontinue using the leftmost buttons on ANY HRAP 1-3 case to avoid the prong clearance problem. It’s the simplest solution even if it’s inelegant. (I don’t mind NOT using the L1/L2 buttons on HRAP 1 layout – it’s more comfortable to discard the two left buttons on HRAP 1 layout – but I like to have all eight button positions available on the HRAP 2 and 3!)
The HRAP 3 SE is different from the HRAP 3 SA because the LS-32-01 PCB/prong adapter points downward so (Hayabusa) prong adapter clearance shouldn’t be an issue there. This is the only HRAP that I own where the prong adapter is oriented downward. There’s no question Hori made this so the LS-32-01 5-prong wouldn’t have a button clearance issue.
For newer HRAP’s (haven’t confirmed this with the VLX; the VLX is a pain-in-the-butt to open as far as I’m concerned), the 5-prong adapter points towards the outside of the case (“LEFT”). This is so with the HRAP V3/VX and HRAP N3/NX and Mad Catz Round 1 and 2 TE’s. The 5-prong adapter pointing outwards or downwards obviously avoids most potential button/sit-in issues.
For older, “Problem” HRAP 3/3SA/PS2 licensed HRAP Variants where you’re considering a Hayabusa control lever installation –
If you use standard 30mm Japanese buttons – Sanwa OBSF or the majority of Seimitsu 30mm buttons, there’s going to be a possible issue of the 5-prong adapter getting bent upward by any of these buttons. You CAN rotate the “X” button a bit to clear the button microswitch away from the 5-prong but it’s still something of a tight fit for the 5-prong adapter and the Hori cable harness. I think the ultimate solution depends on the end user what they’re willing to risk…
a) Take your chances with rotating the button and hope it doesn’t swivel back and ruin the 5-prong over time; this really shouldn’t be an issue if you haven’t done a button mod for a plexi; those plastic notches on the sides of the button are supposed to keep the button in place and prevent rotation… if you shave those notches off to fit the buttons into a plexi cover, obviously the buttons can rotate if you don’t use a plexi.
b) Don’t install a Hayabusa in the HRAP 3 and stick with JLF, LS-40-01, and anything else that doesn’t leave a 5-prong adapter sitting over a button; Zippyy Joysticks and tabbed LS-32’s will also fit with no prong adapter issues;
c) install narrower/shorter height buttons like the Seimitsu PS-15’s. PS-15’s are decent buttons on their own. If you don’t like the feel of the stock switches, that’s easily taken care of by swapping the original Seimitsu switches with Sanwa SW-68 or Hori Kuro switches (if you like those even better).
d) A more complicated option is doing Sethian0’s base mod and going with 0.187-tab microswitches for the Hayabusa… I have a Zippyy clone set up in my HRAP 3 SA and I have no prong clearance issues since I’m using a harness converter to hook into the Hori cable harness. I taped the excess cabling to the bottom of the HRAP interior plastic to keep it from entering the actuator zone. It does not tangle up or get snared with the button cabling or button microswitches, either. The harness converter I’m using with my Zippyy clone is the exact same piece of hardware you’d want to buy for an 0.187-switch modded Hayabusa.
This minor installation inconvenience is only going to affect people who bought older style HRAP’s pre-2010. Newer HRAP’s post-2010 should have no installation difficulties. Older style HRAP owners are going to find different installation problems since Hori used different faceplate and PCB set-ups with the different HRAP models. Outer, plastic case styling was the same with HRAP’s 1-3 but there were alternate faceplate and PCB set-ups that made installating alternate control levers more complicated than necessary even before the Hayabusa arrived…
Anyone know if the Hayabusa stick will fit into a Razer Atrox?
Send me a Razor and I’ll test it for you 
Love your site by the way and what you’re doing for the community when it comes to displays.
Yes
I tested it on my Prototype Razer stick
JLF is more compact but I don’t like the over all design of the stick and the build quality leaves a bit to be desired. It’s too fragile and the plastic is shit plastic. Hayabusa is like a tank, lol, but thankfully not much larger than a LS-32 or LS-40. It definitely gets “tank stick of the year” award, lol.
BTW, I have not installed a JLF PCB in Hayabusa yet, however, you can do it by doing a destructive mod. I will only illustrate (later) how to do it but won’t be doing it myself. As for any difference in feel you’d have, you could get the same feeling by swapping the switch internals from the JLF switches to the Hayabusa switches, it’s merely a tension difference.
One thing I noticed is that levers drastically change the sound of the switches.
LOL, this a joke? It seems like a silly request Any particular reason? The shafts will be about the same, and so will the ball tops. I actually don’t have a Sanwa ball top to compare anyway, and I don’t have a scale to weigh the parts with. Maybe someone else could contribute those measurements for us?
Maybe I’ve been a Seimitsu fanboy for too long. Thing is, I didn’t ever recall a JLF feeling like Hayabusa and soon as I got levers on it I was like, yeah, I can play on this, feels pretty natural to me. At the very least, the first visual impression you get is the Hayabusa gate, which is definitely taking a page from Seimitsu for the screw on gate, and then you see the bulk and immediately think “LS-32/40” because those two aspects are not very JLF like and they’re the first things you see.
I don’t think my problem with JLF was ever the engage. In fact, I think it has pretty good engage, and I think the old information that the engages are huge is wrong. The throw was never my thing and I couldn’t get a comfortable throw mod going for it, so that immediately tossed the joystick out the window for me. Add on to that the weaker spring tension and no levers and yeah, I might as well just play on Seimitsu at that point.
Sorry, missed this. I think it really is the cam housing and pivot design, it allows for quick movements. I will admit I think the cam housing and pivot on JLF is actually really, really good as well. What probably hurts JLF’s recentering more than anything is the spring tension. The switches are higher tension than Hayabusa so those add a bit of extra force on the lever to pop it back to neutral, so the main factor in this will be the spring and pivot. I think JLF centers better than Seimitsu sticks (other than LS-40) but that spring leaves a lot to be desired.
I honestly don’t think the JLF recenters better than the LS-32 or LS-40…
What ultimately killed the JLF for me was the inability to use this thing to play my favorite CPS-2 fighters with any kind of reasonable expection of good response. I could not get the JLF to execute dash-dash/tap-tap moves with any kind of consistency. That requires decent recentering which I never felt the JLF had! Too slow, too sluggish. Hayabusa and LS-32/-40 are on another level where it comes to control response. Ditto for a lot of basic diagonal movement.
SF IV is very, very forgiving on basic joystick movements. It is a more deliberate, slower-paced game than its predecessors. You can get away with a sluggish control lever on SF IV but the older SF games and some of the faster-paced contemporary fighting games, from other developers, not so much.
Weigh the shaft covers, balltops, springs, etc.?
This stuff weighs in ounces and fractions of ounces!
You need a good scientific balance with digital readout that’s more accurate than the typical bathroom scale… and that’s just not necessary for this stuff!
(I’ll grant that the calipers to find out diameters of things you MIGHT change out like the actuator is NOT a bad idea at all. The weight/mass issue on the small parts is overkill IMHO…)
I didn’t feel any difference in heft between the Sanwa parts and Hori clones. Even if the differences are there, they’re so slight they’re not going to make a huge impact on how the Hayabusa performs. A heavier metal alloy balltop and bat top handle MIGHT but they’d have to be significantly heavier than anything I’m aware of. I don’t think a huge spring mod tweak would be required to deal with metal alloy handles, either – for all 8 or 9 of us that would actually buy one of those. Any ball handle made out of plastic is not going to impact the stick much at all whether it’s 30mm, 35mm. 38mm, or 45mm – and none of the rubber/plastic bat handles, either.
The Hayabusa clones most of the JLF parts to the nth degree! There’s hardly a difference in the parts and what exists is not a huge divergence from what Sanwa established in the JLF. This is why people are finding out the Link shaft and hollowed out LED/JLF replacement shafts install perfectly well in the Hayabusa base.
Hori spent its money where it needed to on the Hayabusa. I’m still split on the whole pivot/V cam area being significant versus the microswitch assembly and actuator. I think both are factors in the Hayabusa’s performance. Hori was very smart, though, in not changing the shaft/shaft parts and mounting zones from the JLF. There was no need to reinvent those.
I’m going to revisit the JLF with a spring mod and see how it feels. I’m not using stock spring for Hayabusa because it’s the same as JLF and I don’t think it has enough tension stock, which is why I’m using the LS-55 spring (it feels really good!) instead. The switches have nothing to do with Hayabusa performing better than JLF, the layout is exactly the same as JLF right down to the screw mounting points being identical and the switches are slightly less tense Matsushita switches.
The major change Hori did to the JLF design was the pivot and cam housing. The pivot is larger, has lube grooves, is possibly made of delrin (though the JLF pivot also seems to be smooth like delrin) and then you have the minimal contact with the v cam housing. This is most likely why the stick is so buttery smooth, even though I feel the JLF is also buttery smooth. Then you have the higher quality plastic the stick is made out of, it’s higher spec and more precise. If you compare the two, the JLF parts look raw and crude. I think this also factors in to Hayabusa’s performance but to a much smaller degree.
I still need to take engage measurements, and I also need to do the same for my Seimitsu sticks. I really want to know how different these things really are. Besides the pivot issues in Seimitsu sticks, their plastic parts are also higher spec, more polished and less crude looking than the JLF parts. Combine that with easier throw mods and maybe this is why I like Hayabusa and Seimitsu, perhaps it’s really because I never found a throw mod I was happy with on JLF…
Swapping the actuator’s did nothing to alleviate my issue. I can’t understand why I can go from a Hstick to a JLF and LS32 (all 3 on hand and within minutes) and not have the same diagonal issues. 
At this point I’ll just store my Hsticks away for a bit and see if any of your measurements/testing leads to something (I’m too frustrated with it at the moment lol). The black shaft in my older Hstick, however, has found a new home in the JLF in my Fighting Edge (looks nice since I don’t use the shaft covers anyway).
I have a reloading scale I could weigh them on, but what are you trying to figure out with that information?
Not surprising, but a levered JLF works with the no-throw mod I did for LS-56. So that’s 3 sticks that work with the same mod, Hayabusa, JLF, and LS-56. Once you get some extra spring tension on it, the JLF feels pretty damn good. I take back my hatred for the stick, lol.
Heh. I’ll stop joking in Tech Talk.
That said, everything is worth examining. I was pretty set on getting a Hayabusa because of testimony on this site and elsewhere. Now that people are getting down to the nitty gritty we’re finding not much is different. I’m still going to get it because I’m sold on their pivot, but it’s best if people are more objective. At the very least if you’re going to compare levers you should still have access to the competition, rather than going by months old memories.
In any case I’m glad you guys are looking into this further. I’m pretty picky when it comes to buying things for my own entertainment and this is helping me out a lot.
It took the Hayabusa to get some respect for the JLF. LOL! Thanks for all the measurements MoonChilde. In the end, The Hayabusa is still the better stick in my opinion because of better pivot and quicker return to center. Hayabusa does shmups better than the JLF in my play testing. That being said, if you lube up a JLF with some Shin etsu often enough, it feels buttery smooth as well. I might try and see what a JLF feels like with levered LS-56 microswitches and a 2lb PAS spring and Kowal actuator. Then compare it to the Hayabusa and I bet they would perform very closely…
I take back what I said earlier about selling all my JLF’s. I will keep one…
I’ve always had some respect for the JLF. The pivot is godly, no stick pre-Hayabusa had a better one, and no one can deny that unless they’re living in la-la-land. I also like its PCB, it has a nice one. Unfortunately the gate is cheap and easy to break, the switches aren’t levered, and the other plastic components like the spring flange and actuator are made out of seriously shit plastic. I simply can’t overlook those aspects. All of the Seimitsu sticks use superior nylon parts for actuators and the likes, the gates don’t break easy, and they’re levered out the box. The pivots on them, not including the LS-40, all are horrendous pieces of shit. The PCB’s aren’t as nice either, but they do the job.
On the other hand, Hayabusa has high quality parts all around.
BTW, @Jayducky you can’t use levered LS-56 switches on JLF without modding the body, you’d have to do the same mod I did to Hayabusa to get those in there. IMO, a JLF feels really good once you shorten the throw, add in a higher tension spring, and put some levers in it. But, that’s 3 mods you have to do to make it feel good. If I had to use sticks stock, I’d have to go with LS-40. It’s the best one out of the box for me, but with mods, I think JLF is a good stick. It takes a lot of modding to though, and same with Hayabusa, it does take some modding, but Hayabusa is a little easier to tweak.
Guess where I am then
I grown to hate the JLF.
So, out of the box= LS-40. (I know, LS-40’s don’t come in a box. LOL!)
Modded= Hayabusa.
Off topic but can you D2RV-G the LS-40?
Yes, you can, very easily too.
@Darksakul out of curiosity, you don’t even like the pivot in the JLF? I think it’s pretty high quality.