Honda Match-up Thread: After the war 2010 AE

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1402

Guile needs more recovery on sonic booms ( like deejay) and get a bit of meter instead imo

1403

Thinking about trying out Decapre and blowing up Sims and maybe Guile and Sagat.
Mainly because we Honda players get nerfed against characters we already struggle against and don’t exactly get buffed to deal with characters like Sagat, Guile and Sim (besides the j.mp).
Anyways she’s the perfect candidate for my Painwheel fix, a charge character and has my favorite move, the HHS.

I’m quite sad that she’s more than perfectly capable of holding her own without the HHS. It seems only to be used for comboing into super.
Besides that, I see potential to play extremely lame with her, lol. She gives me all the reasons to focus all fireballs, and have her great utility ultra stocked.
When the opponent is in the corner -> free 50/50 w ultra.

1404

Yep im on the exact same boat as you buddy. I think for 3v3, a team of Decapre on Point, followed up with Guile, and then ending off with a super defensive Honda would be so strong for a charge based team. It will be very easy for us to transition over to her moveset. I have watned to play cammy for a long time I just never had the time to work on her links, so this is really perfect for us.

I think she will have very solid options for defensive play (although still slightly more geared towards offense). You cannot go as ham with decapre as you can with Cammy because A. she requires charge and B. her mixup moves will not be as safe. she will be able to output very good damage from what we have seen but I believe scramble mode can be slightly gimmicky / very punishable if overused much like oni’s groundpounds + demon slashes. However she does have many great options for pressure still, so to me this is a sign of a very solid all-around (but mostly offensive) character. You will need to choose your attack points very carefully, but whne you land them you will get great mixup + good damage. If you are blokced you will receive big damage as well but at least you will be able to get them off you or scramble away.

1405

Hi guys did any of you catch me (GOL Krucial B) on stream vs pr rog in top 64 at final round? I have never had a problem with the rog matchup until I played him. I haven’t been on these forums in a hot minute :slight_smile:

1406

I will check this out shortyl… I just came here to ask if anyone knows a way to catch Balrog when he backdashes out after a crossup. I cross up every time I knock him down up close i cross up cause he cant do anything but dash out… is there any way to catch him?

1407

I’m not sure, but have you tried using cl.MP? It’s what I use against Vega’s super annoying backdash.


(first 20 seconds of the vid)

1408

I compiled some Rufus tech and discussions from this board to assist Mike Robertson and anyone else having trouble with him.
I also added Mr.SNK’s thoughts about the match, but his comments date back from 4 years ago (when Honda and Rufus were completely different), so take that into account.
Combos that have normals in green also work in cross-ups

vs Rufus

[details=Spoiler]Match-Up: 4/6 - Rufus’s favor
Ultra Choice:
Ultra 2 to punish: Not sure
Ultra 1 for reads
Choice Pokes: st.HP, s.HK, s.LP, c.LP, st.MP, LP & MP hb
Anti-Airs: s.HP, nj.HP, j.MP, LP.hb, EX.hb
Headbutts punishable:

corner

midscreen

Fuzzy Guard

Combos
Works on a crouching rufus.

  • cr. LP xx H. Hands - cr. MK xx H. Hb: 307 dmg - s.LP, c.LK, cl.MP, c.MK also works
  • cr. LP xx M. Hands - cr. MK xx H. Hb: 322 dmg - s.LP, c.LK, cl.MP, c.MK also works
  • cr. MK xx EX Hands - cr. LP xx H. Hands - cr. MK xx H. Hb: 447 dmg - 1bar
  • nj.HK, cr.MK xx EX Hands - cr. LP xx M. Hands - cr. MK xx Hp Hb: 518 dmg - 1bar

Works on a standing rufus.

  • LP xx H. Hands - EX Hands - cr. LP xx H. Hands: 330 dmg - 1bar

Personal Choice Combo

  • cr. LP xx H. Hands - cr. MK xx H. Hb: 307 dmg
    Easy and good damage when you confirm he’s crouching

Punishing messiah

  • Honda can punish messiah lk finisher into FADC backwards with reversal HP hands.

General Strategy:
Mr.SNK:
Honestly, everybody hates rufus, just like everybody hates blanka. They’re just annoying to play against and make weird noises as they jump up and down stupidly.

Rufus imo is one of the most annoying characters imaginable since dive kick is ridiculously good, throws are very good in this game, ex messiah kick (JEBUS KICK!) is ridiculously overpowered and rufus has like 1000 ways to land his ultra.

Inherent weaknesses rufus has are he’s really shitty without meter. There’s no fear when he doesn’t have ultra or ex messiah (250 dmg). Also, his normals are relatively awful at not point blank range meaning s.fp/s.hk/s.mp and c.lp mess him up pretty badly. His FA also really blows.

In general, big things people do wrong against rufus are, they try to tech, they jump too much (im guilty of this too), and they don’t pay attention to their spacing. Honda has very poor option selects because c.lk is a 5 framer. It leads to unnecessary counter-hits and throws because if you don’t tech late enough, you get a startup lk which gets you messed up. To avoid having to tech, learn to jump back rh to box rufus out and to ex headbutt reversal very well.

Also, DO NOT STAND UP. YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAND THE F*CK UP. STOP STANDING UP DAMN IT. WHY YOU STANDING DOG? Target combo can only launch people standing up. That means as soon as you do something stupid like STAND UP TO TECH, you eat a target combo linked off a dive kick. Also, DIVE KICKS CAN BE BLOCKED CROUCHING. You also need to crouch to splash bitches.

Rufus’s combos work like this. Galactic tornado can only combo off of cl.fp. Cl.fp xx fp galactic is only safe on hit (there’s a hole between fierce and tornado). The only good link to cl.fp is s.lk and it’s a one frame link that does not link on block. Watch for holes and then punish attempts to do s.lk, s.fp on block with ex headbutt/splash.

Dive kick is a good jump-in that can link to target combo so again, don’t stand up. If you are not in corner, back dash, jump back rh, ex headbutt, ex splash, lk splash, fa backdash, do anything to avoid the damn throw tech baits.

The trick to fighting rufus is to be unpredictable without opening yourself up to rufus’s close offense. AA with lp headbutt, s.fp (chop works ridiculously well unless you do it too early), ex headbutt and lk/ex splash. Keep him out as best you can and when he’s close, burn meter to get away (ex headbutt) or hk splash and just eat the c.fp punish. It’s worth it. Do not do too much nj.fp because if the rufus jumps from below you, instead of from far away, he can rh you as the nj.fp is retracting, leading to ex snake strike and ultra. If you jump, make sure he’s half screen away, not 1/3 screen away, otherwise do jump back HK cause he can’t reliably j.HK it.

In terms of offense against Rufus, don’t bother relying on HHS cause it leaves you too close and with unfavorable positioning. Rely on headbutt which rufus can’t punish (he can punish fp headbutt, but not mp, lp, ex). A trick is to throw a mp headbutt and then an ex headbutt in order to bait the c.fp from rufus on block. You just got a nearly 200 dmg counter-hit cause he stuck out his fat hand. C.Fp from rufus is -14 on block so technically you can reversal ultra it. There’s a reason why nobody does it in Japan (honda’s ultra is 10 frame startup).

Focus attack only works against rufus against really early dive kicks. Otherwise you’ll end up getting a weak lvl 1 fa that you dash into your death after.

Do not whiff unnecessarily against rufus cause you get hit by galactic tornados and c.fp’s. Against ex messiah kick on block, do an ex splash late. I found that to be the best punisher. If you don’t have meter, you can do lk splash which will trade with the overhead follow-up, or you can nj.fp and punish rufus on the way down if you spaced it right (rog does the same thing with wiggly punch). EX headbutt that goes head to head against messiah kick, takes full damage from messiah as if you’re grounded. EX Splash just gets knocked out and you take 40 damage.

When punishing rufus’s ultra on block, know that the last kick whiffs when you block the full ultra. He can be reversal ultra’d so just mash when the ultras finishing.

If you’re challenging rufus’s wake-up, which you shouldn’t do too often, make sure to watch for wake-up snake strike. Punish wake up snake strike by blocking and then doing c.mk xx fp headbutt for safe push away. Another good way to bait/option select against rufus is do meaty c.lp xx fp hhs. If he jumped or threw, you got a free hhs, s.rh. If he ex messiahs, you can still block in time since messiah starts in 11 and c.lp recovers in 7. If he snake strike’d, his first hit will hit you for negligible damage and then you can punish with c.mk xx fp headbutt. If he backdashed, nothing happens cause hhs doesn’t come out if you did the cancel right. So in general, pretty safe offensive tool. If you do a meaty lp headbutt, it’s also a good option because you’re airborne during the middle of the move so ex messiah’s do 1 hit only.

When you’re waking up, watch for the cross-up dive kicks and try to burn meter or ultra to escape the corner crossing up. It’s worth the meter. Rufus’s who knock down from mid screen away like to do a safe-jump fierce so make sure you block high when waking up if they ‘re jumping. It’s a very tricky jump-in that doesn’t look active when he’s coming at you, but it is.[/details]

1409

Alright, I’m not sure if it’s me, but I can’t seem to auto-correct EX Headbutt after blocking a psycho crusher from point blank.
Super and Ultra work fine, but is this because super and ultra have a longer buffer window? http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/niZcR.gif (< lol at gibberish execution)

So far I’m just punishing point blank ex psycho crushers with reversal M Hands for puny 30 dmg if I didn’t have time to bait it.

1410

Got any tips on Fei ??

1411

Here’s some compiled tech I’ve gathered around. The actual matchup discussion is pretty empty, though.

VS Fei Long

http://i.imgur.com/7TVElk8.png

[details=Spoiler]
Match-Up: 3.5/6.5 Fei’s favor
Ultra Choice: Ultra 2 to punish very badly spaced 2nd or 3rd rekka, U1 for reads.
Pokes: st.HP, s.lp, c.LP, st.MP, s.MK (vs Chicken Wing)
Anti-Airs: st.HP, nj.HP, j.MP, LP.hb, EX.hb
Headbutts punishable:

Corner

midscreen

Character spec. combos
Works on a standing fei.

  • s.LP xx M.Hands - c.LP xx EX hb : 290 dmg -1bar

Works on a crouching fei.

  • cr. LP xx M. Hands - cr. MK xx EX. Hb: 322 dmg - 1bar - s.LP, c.LK, cl.MP also works
  • cr. LP xx H. Hands - EX Hands - cr. LP xx H. Hands: 330 dmg - 1bar

Works on both crouching and standing Fei

  • **cl HP - cr. LP xx H Hands **: 244 damage
  • s.LP xx H. Hands - EX Hands - cr. LP xx H. Hands: 348 dmg - 1bar
  • cl HP - cr. LP xx EX Hands - cr. LP xx H. Hands - HK: 413 damage - 1bar

Personal Choice Combo

  • s.LP xx M.Hands - c.LP xx EX hb - on standing
  • s.LP xx M. Hands - cr. MK xx EX. Hb - on crouching, c.LP also works
    From a jumpin, these 2 combos are great. Midcombo (after your s.LP xx M.Hands starter), you can confirm if Fei is standing or blocking and end accordingly.

Gimmicks

  • FADC headbutts to make it safe vs Fei

http://i.minus.com/ibcM3UJ6ak8i0f.gif

  • Fei’s DP has shitty hitboxes part 1

http://i.minus.com/i4Heh2wMfyJZy.gif

  • Fei’s DP has shitty hitboxes part 2

http://i.minus.com/iuFczTNOzXefk.gif

Matchup Discussion
EmanuelB: Cuongster and twg Arthur think the match is 3-7. Fei has better options in the neutral game, and he can counter almost anything Honda does - he can punish all the headbutts (including Ex), and can punish Honda’s best poke (st hk) on block, which limit Honda’s options quite drastically. One of Honda’s worst matches.[/details]

1412

didnt end up having to play against the fei. lost to a stupid rufus again, did MUCH better was at least getting rounds this time. I seriously hate that matchup… i also lost to a sim. not much you can do there. I have never won against a rufus or sim in tournamnet im pretty sure its time to get counterpicks because in my head i am already thinking I will lose.

lost 2 honda mirrors too in money matches because i have zero experience in that mathcup. Guile is the future…

on the bright side I OCV’d a team battle… felt pretty sick , will post the vid later its on www.twitch.tv/redpillgaming just go to the archive from saturday its just after the marvel tournament.

1413

I move that Angerus creates the new Matchup thread when Ultra comes out. All in favor say “Aye”.

1414

So in a recent tournament, I lost in the finals against a Viper player that counterpicked me with E.Ryu and I lost 4-5.
It seems I have trouble against him and I always treated every E.Ryu mu as a Ryu mu previously, but boy was I wrong…

Anyone has any tips vs him? His divekick is annoying to AA.
If you successfully delay your AA EX headbutt then all is okay, but if you misstime then you’re in the hellzone and u can say goodbye to your charge and your life. Also it denies me from walking under E.Ryu when I think he’s going to cross me up with j.MK or tatsu. nj.HP seems to do the trick when I do it preemptively, but it also gets blown up by U2 or his sweep.

1415

I hate this matchup too. he can go toe to toe with you in damage. i play it just like i do vs Ryu but with more fear. ST FP works really well against him though, it can beat far divekicks (sometimes people use a divekcik as a “safety” when they realize they jumped in on you with charge) i use it to trade/stuff fireballs, and of course cr MKs. if you can keep him at the max range of this button you can scare him into blocking high and snag him with st HK. jumping in is almost impossible i prefer to just nj my way in in this match. his fireballs recover really fast. but alas that is how i normally end up getting my damage is guessing a fireball and then getting the fck out and trying to force him to do something unsafe. theres not much you can do different than vs regular ryu its just harder all around cause hes so damn fast ,powerful and even more ambiguous.

1416

I need some tips vs Dan (Ixion’s Dan to be specific), anyone willing to help out?
Also apparently Dan can punish mp headbutt with his ultra 1

1417

hes a 1 of a kind there are really no other players like him out there, easily the best dan

1418

I think honda will lose to Shadaloo(50/50 on dictator), Chun,Guile,Dsim,Poison,Rolento, ALL shotos( except sakura and dan), cammy still, fei still, seth still, and ibuki in the current build. Lets hope more of thise get evened out by release if not honda will be pretty low tier.

Edit forgot about Juri and Deejay. Not 100% on juri but DeeJay I am sure about. They’re 16 I can say with confidence. So most likely 20 out of 39 beat Honda right now some very badly. Some by just a big enough margin to put at 6-4. Lets say out of the ones he doesn’t lose he wins 90% of them. So that means he would go even in 2 matches and win the rest 6-4(honda doesn’t have any 7-3 mu’s in his favor feel free to dispute) he will still be lower mid to low tier. I hope they realize this during balancing.

1419

for me its like this

honda loses:
Sim: 8-2
Seth: 7-3
chun, akuma, guile, sagat: 6-4
ryu, ken: 5.5 - 4.5

honda’s favour:
Blanka: 7-3
Hawk, Gief, Hakan, Dudley, Dan, Sakura: 6-4

Rest 5-5

1420

I think it’ll be something like this;

Honda loses:
Sim: 7-3
Chun, Akuma, Guile, Sagat, Ryu, Evil Ryu, Oni, Gouken, Vega: 6-4

Honda’s favour:
Blanka, T.Hawk, Gief, Guy, Yang, Dan, Sakura: 6-4

Rest 5-5

edit
He’ll probably lose some more matchups now that I think about it. Viper, Yun and El Fuerte come to mind.

1421

i liek vs viper and fuerte, i still think 5-5

i think oni and vega are not that bad but i know why u put them there they are not dead even, i think even balrog + rufus could go there, just didint wanna overcomplicate it. 5.5 - 4.5 though not as bad as those 6-4s. yun could maybe be 5.5

what u think vs. makoto? i dont find this an easy match