Honda Match-up Thread: After the war 2010 AE

Mr.SNK · May 1, 2010, 7:04am

[media=youtube]4j9-Bfm1Tvo[/media]

“In place of a world, there is a city, a point, in which the whole life of broad regions is collecting while the rest dries up. In place of a type-true people, born of and grown on the soil, there is a new sort of nomad, cohering unstably in fluid masses, the parasitical city dweller, traditionless, utterly matter-of-fact, religionless, clever, unfruitful, deeply contemptuous of the countryman and especially that highest form of countryman, the country gentleman.”

We’ve got some work to do. Going to be spending quite a bit of time at the Arcade now.

Mr.SNK · May 1, 2010, 7:04am

Abel:

[details=Spoiler] 6/4 Abel. Lookin for someone are ya? Have you tried talkin to the cops? (This match-up has only gotten worse.) lol

Suggested Ultra: Orochi Breaker.

Roll>>Tornado throw is a popular scrub tactic. Unfortunately tornado>ochio, so you either have to throw him mid-roll, or if you KNOW he is going for it, jump up and hit him as he is whiffing it on the way down.
HP and MP headbutt are punishable by rekka combo on block, all headbutts lose to ultra (so don?t do one when he?s standing there buffering down, forward, down, forward), and I BELIEVE that HP headbutt is punishable by ultra on block (but someone plz confirm)
Rekka combo (the 3 hit mixup thing) is punishable by ex-headbutt after you block the 2nd hit, and by ultra if you block the 3rd.
Careful about blocking down on wakeup, Abel?s flip kick is an overhead, and a meaty one will get you a lot of the time. Note that any headbutt can beat the flip kick once it?s started, but the headbutt is damn slow and a meaty flip will catch you unless you do EX-HB.
You can meaty abel to death on wakeup because he doesn?t have any good reversals. All he can do is roll. Once you train him to roll, then watch for it and punish accordingly.
Don?t abuse nj.HP too much here, if he clips you with the end of his elbow (cr.HP) you?re eating ultra
His Ex-Falling Sky works a little bit better now so well timed Jumps are must.
-His U2 A.K.A. the 1070 can and will Auto correct any type of Jump in also if he starts it up while you’re across the Screen go for an armor breaking move. If you jump like a jack rabbit he’ll catch you.
-His U2 and can also punish Standing :hk: on block so just like fighting Chun you need to be careful and use it sparingly when he has Ultra.
-Long story short spacing is very important in this match-up and you must maintain it at all times, if he starts rushing you down don’t Sumo splash out of desperation to try and get away it’ll only hurt more.
-Keeping Ultra 2 in the mix allows more option selects off of jump ins and also keep the Abel player in check when going for a reckless rush down.
-1070 Will punish all Torpedoes and Sumo Splashes. :sad:
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Adon

[details=Spoiler] - Jumping strong punch should be your standard jump in move. Your jumping strong will stuff the jab/strong/firece rising jaguar if timed right. After you stuff the rising jaguar you can go ahead and do as you please weather it be jab>HHS or Ochio throw, etc. I like to jab>HHS pressure to train the adon to keep his distance and try to footsie me after he learns I can stuff his would be AA rising jaguar.

I do not believe jab>HHS - jab>HHS works on Adon. I tried it many times in training mode and couldn’t get it out.
Spacing I believe is the key to being the true dominent force in this matchup. Be sure to stay at a proper distance so he cannot land a crouching medium kick/punch or that can mean you eat a pretty good chunk of damage if he has the means to FADC. Most good Adons I face will FADC the first chance they get. Be sure to know there option selects once they FADC the rising jaguar. They usually either do another rising jaguar or throw. This is based on the good Adons I face however, not really to sure about random low level Adon players.
When it comes to the Jaguar Kicks (backwards DP kicks on ground) just learn to block then. Most Adons will use them in blockstrings after there usual jab jab strong blockstring combo. They like to throw them out for footsies as well since it gets them a tad closer to Honda without having to move foward to risk eating a headbutt. All versions of jaguar kick (light/medium/heavy) will stuff all versions of headbutt including ex headbutt. Be very careful when he uses this move and know when to properly throw out your headbutts. Rising jaguar can take out headbutts if timed right.
Adons airbourne jaguar kicks get eaten quite a bit if you headbutt. Be sure to headbutt when hes in the air comming down and catch him when he lands since theres a slight recovery on the kicks. The airbourne kicks aren’t really a problem since any version of headbutt deals with them decently. I tested in training mode and any version of headbutt takes out any version of airbourne jaguar kicks.
NEVER buttslam in this matchup. Any good Adon will punish you hard for it and make you eat a combo FADC into ultra/rising jaguar. Only time you would buttslam would be to try and catch him on either a jump or going for a airbourne rising jaguar.
When it comes to footsies on this match I tend to use stading fierce’s quite a bit. Space yourself out of his crouching medium kick/punch range so you dont have to deal with his rising jaguar combo’s. If you shut those down then pretty much all you have to worry about are the jaguar kick gimmicks. Your standing fierce punch will trade with adons grounded jaguar kicks so be careful and just block those unless you want the trade (It’s pretty much a even trade). I like to block the jaguar kicks and if he does light/medium jaguar kicks you can have enough time to Ochio Throw. However this is dependant on if he does the light/medium kicks. Most Adons footsie with Heavy. Don’t be afraid to do a random dash in Ochio when in footsies. You shouldnt be afraid to lose your charge in this match since you have great damaging normals to use on Adon. Not saying however to constantly not charge since Headbutt is always a great thing to have.
Adons will try and bait moves with a light Jaguar Tooth. You can punish a light Jaguar Tooth fullscreen with Heavy Headbutt. It is pretty easy to punish a Medium/Heavy Jaguar Tooth on reaction with standing firece punch. I have not ever traded my standing fierce punch with a jaguar tooth yet. Most Adons won’t use this move much, Maybe once or twice to try and throw someone off there game or to bait moves with light tooth. Headbutt also takes out Tooth.
The Adons I faced always used standing medium kick to take out my headbutts on reaction. Be careful for this. Adons standing medium kick is GDLK.
If a Adon has Ultra 1 in stock and you want to chip him for the win do NOT because he can punish your headbutt on reaction with Jaguar Revolver. Ultra 2 can punish Buttslam spammers. [/details]

Akuma:

[details=Spoiler] 5/5 Recommended Ultra… Um… Both?! U1 protects from Zoning pressure when you get less that Half Screen to Akuma and U2 puts a scare in on Vortex tactics.

Akuma’s super and ultra lose out to headbutt or any jumping attack which you can do on reaction.
You can FA the second hit of his Fw :hk: for some nice damage since Honda is a shorter character.
Demon Flip (Throw) can now be punished if whiffed due to it’s added recovery.
If an Air-Fire ball is thrown high feel free to Ex-Torpedo to punish it.
Learn how to block and tech in order to defend against his Vortex in case you lose momentum or don’t have Ex- meter to Auto Correct Torpedo.
If Akuma is fighting you on the ground attempt to trade hits and go for Hundred hand pressure in order to build meter and chip away at him. Low Vitality on his part hurts same with Random Point Blank fierce Headbutt. It does quite the amount of chip and it trades for a whopping 200 if you’re lucky.
A well timed Jesus Chop :hp: will snuff out his Air to ground attempts if you’re standing and he’s trying to get in.
If Akuma is running away however be prepared for a very long and dragged out match as you push to get in close and then dip out and make him come to you.
Don’t bother trying to guess his fireball pattern unless you’re really close to him. Due to his fast recovery you’ll just end up eating a DP and then the games begin again.
Be on the look out for Over Head super, It’s gotten quite the beef up in this game and will snag you if close enough. It’s a good round closer on the Akuma players part.
Akuma can not teleport on wake up due to Fierce Torpedo or Ultra. If he does a teleport on wake up smash him. If he does a reverse tele Auto Correct Ultra or Torpedo.
Over all depending on both players game this can be a very technical match and needs to be played with the utmost attention and detail in order to win. ** No Slacking! **
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Balrog Boxer:

[details=Spoiler] 5/5 Between your hooks and your counters, color me impressed! *** I want to say 6/4 because of HHS abuse.***

BLOCK LOW and then WAIT FOR THE OVERHEAD. Overheads have visually discernible animations due to their pursuit property so you can see that shit coming for days. Just keep reminding yourself block low, watch for overhead. Otherwise you’ll get swept with rh and dash lower over and over.
Overhead and Dash Swing Blow are armor breakers along with tap. Overhead is 120 dmg, dash swing blow is 100 (weak shit) and tap is (don’t fuck with it).
This fight is all about life leads and patience. You have life lead, he comes to you. You don’t have life lead, you go to him.
How you fight rog depends on range. Three ranges to be at, c.lp range, s.hk/chop range and outside of his jab dash punch range. I personally hate c.lp range cause I can’t tech throws like japs can.
Do not jump into balrog with down charge. If he’s crouched down, do not jump at all within half a screens range from him cause fp headbutt has retarded horizontal range.
Jab dash punch’s startup is probably close to the limit of human reaction time. If you’re a really sharp person, you can use s.lp to stuff every dash punch clean. Soon as you see him move, you’re pressing the s.lp and getting the counter-hit. But problems with this are ex moves and tap.
Tap has to be punished with s.fp. Soon as you see him do the turn around, press s.fp and you’re guaranteed the counter-hit due to chop’s ridiculously long active frame window
Whiff punish balrogs dash punches with s.fp. Constantly weave in and out of jab dash punch range and get ready to punish the ones that don’t hit you (watch Ii Desu Ketsu Bat vs Aojiru Guile).
Overhead attempts should always punished with Oicho/Ultra 2 If your good.
On ex rush uppers you duck, late os tech
You can cr.:lp: him out of his Normal Dash Punches.
You can link Ex-Sumo after Close :hp: HHS.
He can punish :mp: and :hp: Torpedo with :lp: Dash punch and can punish your :lp: Torpedo with his Super
Try and bait out Dash punches when your up close with a :lp: Torpedo then punish
After a knock down feel free to Jump in on Boxer, his only option to get out is Ex-Dash punch and if you cross him up he has to block it due to his headbutt starting in 13 frames
Don’t try and Focus when he has Super meter. It only takes one Dash punch xx super and you lose out on the life lead.
Watch out for Tap into Headbutt xx U1 or Tap into Dirty Bull, it’s a common trick now a day with Rog users and nothing is more embarrassing than getting caught with his U2.
His Super can punish all Torpedoes.
End Story: This is a very dry and slow match, don’t get antsy when eating Dash punch chip and watch out for the Rogs who like to play the counter hit game. Play it out and don’t be afraid to turtle.
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Blanka:

[details=Spoiler] (5/5) Talk about your way out moves! Show me that again, will ya?
Blanka’s Matchup
Preferred Ultra: Ultra I; Allows you to punish blocked blanka balls (All types).
If you’re having trouble with a short ball throw be sure to always be throwing out a c. :lp: with a buffered HHS.
I can not emphasize this enough as many blankas love abusing short ball throw or electricity. Having the jab out there ensures you punish them before they recover.
Watch their EX bars. EX Up Ball is the only ball with invincibility on start up so be sure to bait them out accordingly and punish with a :hp: headbutt.
If blanka has no bars it’s pretty safe to throw out a meaty c. :mk: into headbutt or whatever prefered combo you like.
Beware of Blanka’s j. :hk: It’s angle makes it almost impossible to anti air without an EX bar. Very similar to Vega’s j. :hp:? I forget which jump in it is. However, if you’re fast enough to catch it you can use a :hp: headbutt to force a trade.
Be careful of frame traps with electricity don’t always attempt to mash tech throws otherwise you’re going to eat it!
Be sure to condition your opponent by walking forward a bit and then blocking the ball. After awhile you can shorten the distance you’re walking to hold a charge for a headbutt and bait the ball out.
Beware of U2! It can punish blocked headbutts. I’m not sure about EX Headbutt though.
Blanka’s can punish :mp: and :hp: headbutts with his slide.
Don’t Neutral jump Fierce against Blanka, his slide will knock you down for free.
You can snipe Blanka with crouching Jab out of most of his antics.
Good Blanka’s won’t let you cross them up, so try to stick with besting him on the ground and throw in an occasional jump in here and there.
In most cases Blanka likes to escape corner pressure by doing Ex-Rainbow ball out, stay a little past standing :hk: range and try to intercept it with NJ. Fierce.
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C.Viper:

[details=Spoiler] (6/4 Honda) Talk about weird fighting styles, you got gadgets up the whazoo, doncha?
Roll your face around the arcade stick and you’ll win.
-Auto correct HB is your best friend against her cross up kicks, using U1 as well if its available. This is the number one thing, if you can time auto corrects at will, you already have alot going for you in this match up taking away her cross up game.
-U1 is prob. better for this match up unless your an absolute monster at 720 set ups.
-Jump back strong beats most of her super jump arcs coming at you
-Cross up pressure her on her wake up if she is meterless, if not watch for EX Seismo
-Don’t be afraid to burn EX HB to put a stop to ground pressure strings and reset the situation
-Mix in Command Grabs on some jump ins
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Mr.SNK · May 1, 2010, 7:04am

Cammy:

[details=Spoiler] 6-4 Honda
After EVO, I thought everybody would stop sleeping on Cammy?s potential, but it seems like people still underrate her. I don?t know why though. Maybe it?s because they haven?t played a good Cammy? Well, I?ve definitely played against a good Cammy, arguably as good if not better than Sanford?s Cammy (although Sanford deserves the respect he gets), and I gotta say, she?s one dangerous bitch. The reason she?s so dangerous isn?t so much about her damage, but more because of her mix-up. She?s like Sakura, but better, and with much safer options.

Cannon Spike: Cammy?s form of SRK, it?s invincible (full body) for long enough that you just don?t mess. It beats all headbutts pretty clean except for early EX Headbutt and it does a shitload of damage. Also, it has very good push away that makes it unpunishable by a lot of the cast, but not Honda. On block you can usually squeeze in a fp headbutt for a good chunk of life.

Spiral Arrow: Cammy?s form of blanka ball or headbutt, but it hits low and is highly unsafe on block usually. However, if she hits you with the tip of her foot, she?s perfectly safe and can often retaliate or block. It is cancelable on the first hit so Cammy?s can purposely throw an unsafe arrow and then FADC it into throw or Cannon Spike. It beats all headbutts clean except for the startup of ex headbutt which has full body invulnerability for a few frames. EX goes through fireballs, useless info for Honda match-up.

Spin Knuckle: it sucks

Hooligan Combo: This shit is weird. It?s an airborne ?attack? that throws you on contact if you?re standing or if you jump. It can be ducked, but not when you?re waking up? WTF?!? Apparently, when you wake-up, you?re forced to stand so yeah, I still don?t know what to do against it if you?re waking up w/o meter. Maybe lk splash? If you do have meter, ex headbutt it when it?s close or you can probably c.mp/c.lp it. If she chooses to, Cammy can also come out of hooligan with a low slide attack. Again, hits LOW and cannot be fast recovered. If she hits you with a meaty slide that?s blocked, it?s safe. If she hits you with it in corner, she gets a free cannon spike (dumb bitch). Ton of mix-up after she hits you with this since you can?t mash and get up quickly.

Cannon Strike: Cammy?s dive kick, this shit takes a ton of work to use but has retarded amounts of mix-up. Because Honda has such a slow jab and short, this thing is hell to deal with because it forces you to guess the tech and can be done tiger knee?d to punish tech attempts. This is why I hate the up-close game with Cammy. In general, if you can ex headbutt or lk splash to avoid guessing the tech, I?d do it cause if you don?t, Cammy can do tiger knee?d cannon strike, ex cannon strike, ultra or tiger knee?d cannon strike, s.fp xx cannon spike, fadc cannon spike (350 dmg, WTF!)

Things to watch for:
-Cammy?s jump in of choice is roundhouse. It?s a really odd looking jump-in where she spreads her legs (aaahhh yeahhh, no j/k) and kicks you with a really horizontal hitbox. I have ridiculous amounts of trouble AAing this with chop but it can be done if you stick the chop out pretty early. Problem is she can bait chop?s with cannon strike. After a jump-in roundhouse that connects, she can do throw mix-up or c.lk, c.lp, c.lk xx spiral arrow. I?ll explain why eating spiral arrow sucks really badly, shortly.

-Cammy?s cross-up is j.lk and honestly, it sucks against people with good reversals. Honda however has really shitty cross-up reversals, which is all bad. After a connected or blocked j.lk from Cammy, she can do nothing and bait your lk splash, she can c.lk, c.lp, c.lk xx SA you, she can tick throw you, or she can tiger knee cannon strike to bait your tech. In general, you don?t want to get crossed up. Burn meter or FA dash to avoid having to guess. You want to play the mid screen battle against cammy and make her come to you.

OKI options that make Cammy annoying:

-If you just got hit with a Spiral Arrow and got knocked down, sucks for you. Right after getting spiral arrowed, cammy can jump up for a tiger knee?d cannon strike that is completely ambiguous to block and looks ridiculously odd. If she spaced it right, you completely can?t tell if you will in fact get crossed up and honestly, unless you training mode and test it for yourself, you?re pretty much at the mercy of the Cammy player. If you ex headbutt, you get hit in the ass, but at least you?re airborne so that she can?t do any follow-ups.

-If you get forward thrown, this again, sucks for you. Because you can?t fast recovery, just like you can?t fast recovery after eating hooligan slide, you now have to deal with another ambiguous cross-up. This cross-up is so ambiguous, most Cammy players cannot even tell which side they?re attacking from. They just tiger knee cannon strike next to you and stick out the meaty and hit confirm to low forward xx SA. Dumb right? Well at least with this OKI setup, you can usually lk splash to trade for some damage if you have charge. If you don?t do this, you?ll probably eat a good 230ish damage combo and once again, have to deal with the ambiguous tiger knee?d cannon strike.

Important Notes about this match-up:
-The only way I beat California?s best Cammy, VasAznIon is by jumping around (but not into). I keep her boxed out with nj.fp, jump back roundhouse, headbutts. I burn meter to avoid OKI situations and don?t splash much cause Cammy has a ridiculously good FA and dash (both ways, front and back).

-Spiral Arrow/Ultra punishes FP headbutt only so you can do a mp headbutt which looks like fp headbutt, followed by an ex headbutt for a free counter-hit bait. Cammy?s SUPER punishes ALL headbutts. Shit is lightning fast.

-Cannon Strike might seem like it has a ton of hitstun and blockstun, but in reality, it has very little block stun. You can backdash sometimes and then jump away to escape but watch for the spiral arrow punishes.

-Her throw range is bad (.75). After c.lk, c.lp she usually has to inch forward a hair before she can throw you so keep that in mind.

-If she ever walks up to you with 2 meters and ultra, she?s probably baiting a tech so that she can spike, fadc, ultra you . It does respectable dmg, probably 300-400 depending on meter. I prefer eating the throw rather than guessing the spike, fadc.

-Punish blocked spiral arrows with oicho instead of headbutt due to better startup

-If you are at max screen range, occasionally whiff an oicho to make her come to you, but realize that she can cover ground retardedly fast with hooligan and hk spiral arrow.
-Do not quick recover after a knockdown.

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Chun-li

[details=Spoiler] (6/4 Chun) You may be fast, but your kicks feel like mosquito bites to me

Don’t headbutt when she has ultra meter unless you know she has no charge or it’s in combo. She can punish all headbutts, even :lp: and ex on block.
S.:hp:, c.:lp: and s.:hk: all trade with her sweep which leaves u knocked down but it’s a worthy trade
Do not walk into her s.:hk:, it’s difficult as fuck to see and kicks Honda in the face for free
Tech as many throws as you can. Don’t panic, she hits like a little girl but has a pretty good throw range. I’ve seen Akimo tech 8 throws from a chun in a single round.
Do not jump fireballs that have been out for a significant amount of time. She will jumping fierce you as air to air every time. If you have to jump a fireball, do it from nearly full screen or right as its leaving her hands. If you jumped it when it’s leaving her hands and you’re far away from her, stick out j.:hk: early. When you’re jumping it as the fireballs leaving her hands and your close, use j.:mp:, j.:lk: or j.:lp: (I prefer mp but :lk: and :lp: have weird ass hit boxes that she can’t AA correctly).
Use a decent amount of focus attacks outside her jab range but inside her sweep range. Sweep is hard to counter-hit but easy to hit with level 2 FA. She has a lot of counter-hittable normal spamming so don’t be afraid to take risks.
Watch for overhead flips
Do not try to anti-cross up j.lk, only command cross-up done not deep.
If you get hit by 2 c.:lp: x n, s.:hp: combos, stop attacking and let the stun clear
Challenge her wake-up cause it sucks. If you have meter, do a late ex head butt and it’ll beat wake-up EX SBK and back dashes. Stand out of her throw range when doing this so you don’t have to deal with wake-up throw. Worst case scenario is she jumps and you burned meter or she blocked and you burned a meter. Best case scenario is you counter-hit her ass for 200 dmg. After you train her to block or jump on wake-up, use s.:hp:/cl.:mp: (meaty), c.:lp: xx :hp: hhs, :hk: or oicho (meaty). You can also bait out ex sbk and block it, then punish with fp headbutt or ultra (-18 on block).
Don’t whiff shit against Chun unless it’s max range chop that can’t get whiff punished with sweep
If she doesn’t come to you and isn’t throwing kikokens, whiff oicho for meter
Chop is really good AA against chun cause it’s a 150 dmg counter-hit that she almost never beats clean (hard to time against j.:hp: though)
Honda can auto-correct Headbutt/Ultra Chun Li’s OH flip kick
Chun will always pick U1 against Honda, there is no other reason not too. The pressure alone from being able to Ultra 1/4 of his moves is worth it.
In Short this match hasn’t changed much at all, trade hits and don’t let her zone you out.
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Cody

Spoiler

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Dan

[details=Spoiler] (6/4 Honda) You can’t just talk the talk, man. One of these days, you gotta learn how to fight.
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Dee Jay

Spoiler

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Dhalsim

[details=Spoiler] (6/4 Sim) Fire breathing? Levitation? Is this a fight or a magic show?

Default
Playing against Dhalsim is all about mixing it up and taking calculated risks. Playing textbook simply won’t work because dhalsim is designed to keep people out indefinitely and has an answer to every defensive situation. Before you can beat Dhalsim, you have to understand how sim keeps you out.

Anti Air:

S.rh: Far S.rh is sim’s 3/4 of 1/2 screen distance anti-air. He uses it on reaction to keep you out after jumpin ga fireball that’s at half screen. Why did you get hit by it? You jumped from not full screen against a fireball while dhalsim was not in recovery. To avoid this, don’t jump fireballs while dhalsim is free to position himself and is not in yoga fire recovery. "i dunno if you caught this pie, but if a sim is trying to anti air you with a far rh, you can beat it by hitting rh right around the peak of your jump. a better option even yet is mp around the peak of your jump. it will beat the rh, and if you see him go up for an air to air and you hit it early enough, it stuffs it as well.

not that i would endorse getting in the habit of jumping at sim in the first place, but if you choose to jump from a distance, you have a few options. not like close jumps, where he can shut you out if he chooses the correct option " -HNIC Mike

Air to Air Strong: jumping strong functions simliary to s.rh. Keeps you out for jumping fireballs 1/2 screen to close range. How to avoid it? Don’t jump the fireball while sim is free to move and punish. Just walk.

S.rh: the infamous knee, dhalsim uses the knee when you jump in on him predictably from close range. You jumped in while he was barely coming out of the recovery which is fine, but you did it from a bad range if you got AA cleaned. When you jump in on sim while he’s coming out of the recovery of a fireball, you have to jump at two specific ranges. Range 1 is max range j.rh. You stick the roundhouse out early with the intent to trade (125 dmg vs 98ish) and trade or contact sim with the tip of your foot. Any other distance will lead to knee hitting your thigh resulting in a perfect AA. The other range to jump in on sim is from close range, almost the brink of crossing up. You make sure to use j.mp and and time it so that your hand clips dhalsims head while your hand is at the bottom of your character. See akimo vs sabin for j.mp correctly.

S.mp: the raise your hand anti air cleanly beats splash coming down, prevents crossup attempts and AA’s incorrectly timed j.mp. Getting around s.mp is difficult but possible through randoming the timing of splashes. Also, it does pitiful dmg and you’re now much closer to sim, which is where you wanna be.

AA slide: A very weird AA to predict, it’s effective at dealing with Honda’s far j.rh. Fortunately for honda, it puts sim rite next to you and at a fairly close frame advantage. Almost all sims will do either instant jump back fierce overhead or mash the fuck out of throw. To deal with this, make sure you have a back charge and get ready to tech. If he does the overhead, block high and punish the blocked overhead with fp headbutt/ex headbutt/ultra (yes!). If he throws and you tech, get ready to headbutt (ex) any teleport attempts or to punish any jump back overheads once again, but you’ll probably need ex since it’s going to be about max range.

Things to keep in mind:

When you’re watching for teleports (when dhalsim you cornered or he’s cornered), you have three punishment options. lk splash, s.fp or lp headbutt. Akimo likes to lp headbutt but I have a tendency to get oichos cause I hold down a lot. You do this like you’d do anti-crossup headbutts, press the lp late after he’s switched sides. For s.fp, make sure you’re doing it after sim’s switched sides otherwise you just stuck out a laggy fierce in the wrong direction. S.lk imo is the best option because you got a knockdown with decent oki and he took a good amount of dmg. Ex splash has even better oki but I personally like to save meter for ex headbutts.

FA does have applications in this match-up but people often overuse it. If you don’t successfully FA a limb, you didn’t gain much ground cause honda has the chode of all dashes (cept gief). Also, he got a free fierce on you cause he caught you in FA’s recovery. So, be careful with the FA usage.

LK/MK/HK splash does lose to late instant overhead so be careful with the splash usage. EX splash beats overhead easily and sets up fantastic oki.

OKI (situation when he’s getting up):
When you get a successful knockdown on dhalsim, you just gave yourself a big opportunity for some huge damage. Every headbutt you hit on sim is more than 15% of his life meaning you don’t have to guess much in order to kill him. When he’s getting up, he has 4 options.

do nothing but block
jump-back (vertical jump is suicidal for sim)
teleport
back dash

When you play a sim, you’ll usually figure out what type of options he usually turns to. Some sims like to spend a shitload of time in the air which I find dumb while others like to abuse teleports. Very few take the upclose fighting approach and fish for a knockdown before they attempt to retreat.

When fighting sims, I rely on 3 options.

First, I like to use meaties. One I use constantly is meaty xx fp headbutt. If you guessed a jump, a wake-up throw or a backdash, you usually have enough time to punish either of these three options. c.lk, c.lk xx fp headbutt is imo, the best meaty option because you can punish the teleport on reaction pretty easily. If he didn’t teleport, it’s a hit confirm, although difficult. Another meaty option is s.mp, s.hk. It’s a 180 dmg meaty option that punishes jumps and backdashes but not teleports because s.mp takes forever to whiff. Another meaty option is meaty lp headbutt. Punishes throw, backdash and jumps provided you time it right and do it point blank.

Second OKI option is to meaty oicho. You do this if you think he won’t jump but honestly, almost all sims jump. If you’ve trained them by meatying them a few times, you can usually squeeze in an oicho or two (use fp) before they’re afraid again and being to jump or teleport.

Third OKI option is to lk splash. LK splash on wake-up jumpers is a knockdown provided you do it early enough, can crossup, is unpunishable for sim and does decent dmg if it actually hits. Problem is, they can teleport this and possibly backdash it if you’re not right next to them. They could probably FA, backdash as well, but this is punishable by a s.hk. I honestly dislike this option tho cause splash has terrible follow-up if they block it. It’s just another guess but this time, you’re doing the hard guesses since you’re -2 on block.

Fourth OKI option that isn’t really an option, but more of a guess and act of desperation. Late meaty ultra. I’ve caught good sim’s before doing late meaty ultras as its a punish to teleport and backdash. I actually knocked a good sim out of a fairly large win streak before with this option recently at SVGL (norcals best arcade) because it’s just so random and rewards huge damage for relatively little risk (sim hits for shit). Ways to set this up is to be mid-screen and not corner and having meatied the sim a few times or wake-up oichio’d him. They instinctively want to teleport and when they do, bam, big dmg. Another way to set this up is to have a sim cornered. When you’re out of s.hk range and have a sim cornered, they naturally want to get out, so they have a tendency to teleport. If you can set up a telegraphed teleport (you wait for him to throw a fireball and walk forward since he wants to get behind you), you can flip the ultra like you do an anti-crossup headbutt, but with your ultra. I forgot where I saw this done, maybe it was akimo.

Other interesting things to note about this match-up are s.lk beats far fierce/crouching fierce from sim, but it’s a guess. S.fp (chop) beats instant overhead (hard to time), ULTRA PUNISHES POINT BLANK YOGA CATASTROPHE. If a sim is ever stupid enough to desperately throw out a yoga catastrophe, mash ultra and just smoke him in the face with it. Sim is in quite a bit of recovery after he throws the ultra so make him pay (25 frame recovery).

Sim’s slides are all pretty negative, although hitting you with the tip of the slide is considerably safer. You can usually get away with a reversal ex headbutt or reversal oicho to thwart his throw attempts.

Sim has no true block strings. If he’s looking to push you with with db+fp, s.lk, s.lk, just reversal ex headbutt for some counter-hit dmg. On block nothing links with sim so don’t play into his tricks.
** New! [media=youtube]tF9uS_rrLe0[/media] New! ** It seems you can trade/Beat Sims Yoga Fire which is great for us!
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Mr.SNK · May 1, 2010, 7:05am

Dudley

Spoiler

Gutter Trash!

E-Honda:

[details=Spoiler] (5/5) It’s hard to beat and opponent who can read every move you’ve got!

Blocked HP/MP headbutt can be punished on block w/ standing HK (If you blocked it standing up, not crouching), or ultra (perfect counter timing needed). Obviously ultra reverses it too so don’t go headbutting on wakeup.
Ochio vs. Ochio mechanics: Ochio throws I’ve found are 50/50 if both parties go for it, so do it at unexpected times, or train yourself to jump straight up any time you think you should do an ochio, and then nail the other guy who DID ochio on the way down.
Buttslam vs. Buttslam mechanics: who ever is on the way down has the most priority, so time the wakeup slams early rather than late.
Headbutt vs. Headbutt mechanics: Usually a trade, but if you time an LP/EX headbutt properly (i.e. hit them at the very very start of the move) you can do a reversal. Use sparingly though because sometimes you will just eat it.
You cannot cr.:lp: into HHS on crouching Honda. Feel free to use U1 or Ex-Headbutt.
[/details]

El-Fuerte:

[details=Spoiler] (6/4 Honda) Next time, we’ll fight in the kitchen. My chanko stew is unbeatable!

This matchup can go either way, all depends on who can pull the most effective mindgames IMO
When el-fuerte goes off the wall, jump straight up and HP to hit him. A counter w/ headbutt is possible, but it has lead me to eat damage when mistimed. j.HP is more reliable.
When el-fuerte starts running at you, I like to do LP/EX headbutt early. Unless he goes for a deep crossup body splash and hit’s your legs, you will nail him as he tries to roll away. Even with the deep splash, he will usually eat the headbutt before he jumps as it requires late timing.
When you’re on your back and fuerte is running: You have a few options. The worst one is to try to block. Too many mixups, I would say you have about 1/3 chance of blocking properly. The safest bet is to jump away and HP. Worst case, you eat a splash and go flying away, then you tech get up and are free from the wake up games. Best case, you catch him trying to do the tornado throw and hit a jumping HP.
When fuerte is on his back: the tables are turned. You can do a couple buttslams, bait antiair then ochio or combo, crossup mk, you can even jump right in (well timed) to set up an ochio tick.
End game stalemates: Do NOT use HP/MP headbutt to try and get a chip-death or life lead, fuerte can counter them with a FREE ultra. You CAN however use EX HB to bait the ultra, jump immediately after you land then punish (although, I believe even EX-HB can be punished w/ ultra on counter-timing? Someone who knows should please share).[/details]

Fei-Long:

[details=Spoiler] (6/4 Honda) Whatta voice! My ears will be ringing for weeks!
[/details]

Gen:

[details=Spoiler] (?/?) For an old timer, you sure move quick! I guess I underestimated you.
Gen: Use your fast aerial chops. In addition to the normal WALL (aka Jumping Fierce) also utilize…

neutral jumping: Jab (fast chop)

forward/backward jumping: Strong (fast chop), and jab (downward angle palm).

those chops really kill Gens cross up game if he’s trying to get in. After you hit with those you’ll land right next to him (in fp. oicho range). don’t butt slam cause if he does his upward kick it’ll beat it. you can wait out the first aerial punish to see what he does. a cr. jab usually works well and sets up for oicho.

One BnB combo gen players use is their s.mk xx hands. some can even link another set afterwards. It isnt a bad idea after the first set to try and ex-headbutt. if they’re too slow on the link the ex-headbutt will punish.

EX-Heabutt does NOT beat out his diagonal wall dive if you do it too late. VERY STRICT timing to punish that dive with ex, you have to make use of those invinceability frames.

Random butt slams are NOT good as he can get in fast and use your recovery time to start his cross-up game.

chingchong that chingchong to death~!
[/details]

Gouken:

[details=Spoiler] (?/?) Say, have I met you before?
Gouken:

A matchup I believe is in Honda’s favor, since gouken is always on the guessing end.
Scrubby Gouken players shoot fireballs in patterns (something like normal, normal, upwards). Figure this out, and hit them hard with a headbutt when you think the upwards fireball is coming out.
I’m pretty sure gouken can’t punish a headbutt at all, and it breaks through his counter move (which is really just a command FA). So spam away.
Some gutsy goukens will try to command-FA jump ins. In this case, do a blank jump in to ochio if you can predict it.
If you see gouken doing a charged 2-hit hadouken when you have a backcharge, think of it as an invitation to ultra through it.
Just be careful with throws and ochios, because if you do it from to far, he can backthrow you into that damn ultra.
Also, when he does the command jump, if you want to counter it w/ headbutt, do it early or you might eat a combo.
[/details]

Mr.SNK · May 1, 2010, 7:05am

Guile:

[details=Spoiler] (6/4 Guile) You’ve got skills, but it doesn’t look like you’re enjoying yourself much.
Seems this version of Guile makes for some interesting strategies - here is mine - which is different in places.

Use U2 - Guile recovers too damn fast for U1 to be much use and EX Boom is so fast you need to be psychic to react to it in time with U1. The only time I have got U1 to work effectively has been when I second guess a block string based on patterns or on a neutral jumping Guile, but I would rather not be guessing, but reacting, hence why I dont use it. U2 is more solid vs Guile. I have hit SSF4 Guile with it off cross ups, empty jumps when he whiffs c.hp and off meaty lk buttslam blocked on wake up…let alone the usual jab hands FADC route.

Trades - basically go for them when you have a life lead, try not to when you don’t. Honda wins trades vs Guile, but the problem you have is you eat a load of chip from boom in this match - about 20% more than in SF4 becasue of the charge times. So you can trade all you want with a lead, but a couple of booms on chip means your trade was worth nothing if you are behind.

Life Leads - Get a good one and hold your ground looking for times to reversal with EX headbutt.

Buttslam - use it in reversal situations only. A good Guile will bait it with neutral jumps and back jumps looking for air throw. Meaty on wake up is good too - if blocked you can go for an Orochi and it also beats flashkick on wake up. Also, any good player will just focus your buttslam and hurt you for it.

Corner Games - Honda wants Guile in the corner. It is harder work than in SF4 to get him there, but you have to be persistant and enforce your will on the Guile player (uber defensive Guiles will put themselves there anyway). You might not have met an agreesive Guile, but this Guile can put you there quickly himself with some concerted pressure - because of his shortened charge time he can use his forward knee after a boom to close space and then throw another boom immediately to push you back and the speed of his recovery means you might eat an AA and go further backwards. When you are cornered don’t panic - his corner pressure is very good and keep an eye out for his overhead, but look for spaces in his strings for EX headbutt to get out.

Jump In - I don’t think Honda wins this fight on the ground - too fast a charge, too good a recovery and boom is better as a poke than anything Honda can put out. IMO, if you can’t corner Guile (which is the only place you win on the ground), you need to take to the air - ealry mp can beat c.hp and df.hk (spacing and timing dependant), j.lp is good from a longer range and late j.hk from about 2 squares away on the training stage beats c.hp - what I mean is aim to land the kick on Guiles legs as this timing, with correct spacing, makes c.hp AA whiff first. Lastly, do not jump if Guile is following in behind boom or has had time to move about freely - most of Hondas options loose in this situation.

Knockdowns - Look to put him on his backside as much as possible - your cross up game is the biggest headache you can give him mid screen.

Super - Try to get this - one hands combo will net you 400+ damage and potentially a round in the bag.

Jab hands s.mp - Guile has a strange hitbox on his legs that means s.hk whiffs a times. I go for s.mp as it hits more and only does about 10 less damage in the combo than s.hk. Added bonus is you can hit Super off it too for a bundle of damage and FADC the s.mp for some further mix up into more hands (too far away for Oicho).

In the end, you need to play solid and as Mr Snk pointed out importantly - don’t allow sunglasses!

Now before people start going on and on about how you beat Guile, realize that most Guile?s in the US blow. But there are a few good ones like DaggerG, Gilley, Dieminion and Lamerboi (always room for up and comers to). These Guiles are all thorns in your side that are content with throwing sonic booms like a machine gun, all day. You jump; you eat a fist in your ass. You FA dash; he shoves his fist in your face. There?s a lot more to these Guiles than your average scrub, sonic boom, sweep, wait, FLASH KICK!!!

As soon as the round starts and you face off against Guile, you?re main enemy is pretty much the timer because in this match-up, Guile does nothing but charge for a SB, throw it, and wait for your reaction. You jump it incorrectly; you eat an air throw, either of the fierces or a j.rh. You FA, bam, f+rh or f+fp. You do nothing, he throws another one.

So you?re probably wondering right now, how do you beat guile? The answer is, you be random. Guile is fundamentally the same as Dhalsim, which is why Capcom has a hard time balancing them. They?re made to keep you out and force your move so the only way you can get around his defense is to be unpredictable.

Offensive Tools:

BEST TOOL: WALK. Wait what? Yes, you walk. You stop jumping, you stop doing fancy focus attack shit, you stomp splashing like a stupid kid in a pool and you stop headbutting like a dumb boxer and just walk forward. If you get into Guile?s poke range, you walk and you block more. Fundamentally, if you?re doing nothing but blocking, guile can?t really hurt you. It?s only when you do stupid things like jump predictably that you open yourself up to damage. If you watch Akimo vs Guile, you?ll see that whenever he jumps in stupidly, he loses and whenever he spends ? of the round walking about, blocking, he wins. Ironically, even though Akimo?s the best, he sucks at fighting guile because half the time he?s patient and half the time, he just doesn?t care.

Even though you shouldn?t jump, sometimes it?s still advantageous to do so because there is a range where jumping works well. It?s slightly farther than guile?s f+rh range and you only do it after the boom has been thrown. Soon as the boom?s thrown, you have to be already in the air. The reason for this is because c.fp has startup and at the range where you?re jumping in, guile can only get a piece of honda?s j.rh?s foot. So you?re most like to win or trade. He has no charge to flash kick you, back fierce won?t work cause the of the angle, it?s too late for air throw and any attempts to jump roundhouse. The other range you can jump is within Guile?s sweep range. It has to be fairly unpredictable but the way to do it is to jump and stick out an early strong. You?ll clip Guile in the head and be able to link a c.lp xx hhs, rh.

One last situation to jump is when Guile is following behind his boom, coming in to poke you. If you neutral jump and then fierce really late, you?ll usually be able to trade his c.fp that he?ll attempt to throw out underneath you. Sometimes what?ll happen is you?ll fall on the boom, but that?s ok, 50 damage taken and no follow up.

Now that you know when to jump and when to walk, you whole purpose now should be keeping guile in the corner. You spend ? of the time walking, and ? of the time poking and handslapping the shit out of him. You watch the guile for his patterns and when you can figure out a good opening, take some time to poke him. Use s.fp (chop), s.hk (good for hitting boom startup), s.mp (also good for hitting boom startup) and an occasional headbutt. If the guile tries to jump out, jump back roundhouse or nj.fp. Don?t get knocked down cause then guile gets out of the corner. If you can keep guile cornered, counter-poke him a bit, throw in some hand slap pressure and make sure to AA his jump-ins with lp/ex headbutt, you have a very high chance of winning.

Sometimes, throwing in some FA?s helps because guile has no good armor break after boom. Just make sure you?re close range and that after the boom absorb, you let go cause his pokes are all fast (5 or more frames). Also, walk up Oicho is another good trick because if they do nothing, they get thrown and if they jump back, you can punish with cl.fp. It?s hard timing but go into training mode and try it. Guile has no jumping normals with vertical hitboxes, only horizontal ones so sticking your hand on his ass and attempting to grab it (close fierce animation is weiiirddd?) works wonders.

Splashing is something that?s a bit risky at times for Honda to attempt for a few reasons in this match-up. First off, c.hp beats it clean. If you attempt to throw off his timing by using different strengths of splash, it does work, but if you get a cross-up, he?s now out of the corner. Make sure to cross him up with mk in order to switch back sides. Same thing with Oicho. If you get him with an oicho, you now have to cross back over to prevent him from escaping.

Other things that work well against guile are meaty Oicho, meaty s.fp, meaty c.mk xx headbutt, meaty s.mp, meaty c.lp xx hhs and cross-up mk into c.lk, etc. In general, guiles like to jump away so don?t let him. If he becomes really obvious, knock him down and as soon as you can visually see him jump back, ultra. Guile has a very high arcing jump so the ultra will literally catch him before he can land, and it?s hilarious.
-Sonic Hurricane punishes blocked :hp: Torpedo
Overall, don?t be afraid to take risks against guile since his damage is awful, but don?t rush in stupidly and blindly so that you get counter-hit and poked to shit. Take the match-up slow even if you hate it.
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Guy

[details=Spoiler] Ok I strongly feel this is 6/4 Honda now

Well timed Jab Headbutts will beat Elbow drops.
Mis-Spaced slide is Punishable by Cr.Jab xx Hands, but also be on the lookout for frame traps. (Ex-Tatsu)
Don’t be afraid to Jesus Chop (:hp:) Guy out of the air. He’s really fragile.
You can link cr. :lp: xx hhs after you score the first one with him standing.
Don’t jump in on him while he has meter, Ex-Tatsu beats everything Honda has to offer.
He has a really floaty jump so be on the look out and prepare to adjust for Auto-Correct Headbutts/Ultras.
Neutral Jump :lp: beats his Wheel Kick quite a bit.
Don’t overuse New Jersey Fierce. (NJ :hp:) due to his very disgusting air throw game.
Tech his throws on reaction, guy has an amazing walk speed and will stop a chain move a bit force the guess then either throw your whiffed throw or go into another chain.
His normal jumping :down: :mp: (Non-Bushin Flip) has great priority and should not be challenged air to air if possible.
And as a final note, Guy suffers from Downback ** ALOT ** [/details]

Hakan

[details=Spoiler] Vs Hakan:

Hakan can punish fierce headbutt with fierce oil slide.
Butt Slams are safe, Hakan’s 360 + P is too slow to catch even the roundhouse butt slam.
Honda should really turtle this match out, Hakan simply doesn’t have a good way to get in. All of Hakan’s “I’m moving forward to get you” moves, towards + strong, towards + roundhouse, and crouching fierce are all -5 on block, which mean a free low jab hands combo. This is true even when oiled, being oiled does not change anything other than his range. His towards and strong can be canceled, but the only thing to note is if he cancels to his Oil Dive (360 + K), you must crouch, if you stand or try to jump out you will get grabbed.
Watch for Hakan to try to oil up full screen if you are turtling and headbutt appropriately.
If Hakan lands an oil slide and the followup, he can apply the short oil for free, do not try to counter attack with something wildly unsafe while you are waking up.
When Hakan is oiled, he can cancel out of his forward and back dash into normal moves. For forward dashes, this isn’t much of a problem, just continue to block / wait for him to do something stupid. However, if Hakan is oiled and waking up, leave him the hell alone. He can back dash on wake up, and cancel the back dash to low forward, oil slide for a knockdown, essentially getting an invincible low forward. Note that most Hakan’s are not doing this yet, but it’s something to watch out for in the future.
If you weren’t turtling before he got U2, you better start, since U2 will beat jumps, butt slams, and headbutts. I hope you have the life lead. You can try to get him to blow it early if you’re really whipping his ass, but you’re still looking at around 350 damage for a level 1 ultra.
Be careful with jumping overall, Hakan’s jumping strong puts you in a juggle state, he can combo U2 afterwords or Oil Slide (with followup). Hakan also has an air throw, but he’s a little more limited in it’s use because his jump is so bad.
Watch out for that jab 360 while he’s oiled, that thing has crazy range, use whatever throw evasion techniques you prefer.

Verdict: 6-4 Honda. [/details]

Ibuki

[details=Spoiler] 6-4 Honda
-Must learn how to block her Vortex, if you don’t she’ll get a perfect on you everytime

If Ibuki goes for a 3rd Tsumuji after you’ve already blocked two feel free to Ultra or Ex-Headbutt her.
With proper spacing and time you can Ultra 1 through her Kuani if she’s dumb enough to throw a bad one. I’m guessing about 1/2 screen or so.
If she doesn’t have meter feel free to rush her down, also you can jump in on her knockdown for free when she doesn’t have meter.
If she misses her Ex- Vertical kick wait for the knife to pop then Focus it and smash her with the FA, she has really bad recovery if she throws one.
Be on the look out when she has Super, her Overhead might not be fast on paper but if your like me and hold downback a lot you’ll end up getting hit by it. It also does some decent chip just like Honda’s Super.
If you eat your first mix up from her just stay calm and be ready to block the next one or try and gamble out with Sumo, just be warned that it’s a free Neck Breaker if you don’t hit her.
A well spaced J :hp: will beat out her standing :mp:
She can punish :hp: Headbutt with Neckbreaker and :hp: :mp: Headbutt with U2.
She can also punish blocked Sumo Slam with U1 since it has a two frame Start up.
Block Neck breaker is punishable on most cases, threat it like Honda’s blocked Standing :hk:. Judge the Distance.
She has no real way to attack Honda, unless you give her ground and play stupid by randomly pressing buttons.
She can FADC her Vertical Kick so be ready to Ex-Headbutt her if you see it. (Jab works amazingly well too.)
[media=youtube]QFPkS71Cob8[/media] (From full screen if she throws a :hp: Kunai)
[media=youtube]0xjYSfmUGcE[/media]
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Juri

Spoiler

I wonder if she plays Star Craft

Ken

[details=Spoiler] (6/4 Ken) You’re one aggressive fighter, I like your style!

Stay on the ground if all possible. Only jump if you are going to nj.f and smash his pretty blonde face if you predict a jump in attack. If you stay on the ground and just pressure him with cr.jab + HHS and also EX HB, then you will notice Ken players quiver. Only do this technique for upper level Kens that rely a lot on standing.medium kicks to pressure you. As soon as you take that away from him with a few EX HBs and cr. jab + hands, most players divert back to fireballs and a Ryu style of playing, which in my opinion favors Honda.

Just watch out for some Ken trickery with his j.EX Hurricane kick crossovers. Just block them as you do his normal crossovers, but you can spot them easily as they don’t engage the hurricane kick until they are almost over you.

cr.jab + HHS should be mixed up with cr.jab + jab.ochio. Also, I have noticed if you randomly nj.f into HHS when you land, it often catches them doing that stupid standing.mk if spacing is correct. Lastly and most importantly, I just always try to nj.f predict those jump-ins and I always try to block if they are deep crossovers. Eat the throw after crossup if you have to, cuz’ its better than taking a shoryuken in the jaw. If you keep Ken in front of you at all times, that usually helps your fight in your favor.
[/details]

Mr.SNK · May 1, 2010, 7:05am

M.Bison (Dic):

[details=Spoiler] 5/5

Bicycle kick can Punish both :mp: and :hp: head butt
With proper spacing you can hit the tip of his standing :hk: (AA) with N.J. Fierce
If his slide whiffs it is punishable by death. (Big Damage)
When he whiffs a deep :mk: or :hk: Bicycle kick you can either Oicho for the mix-up or just give him a HHS Job
If the Dic player is stupid enough to head stomp into his punch attack feel free to ultra. (Just make sure you time it right)
Get greedy with those Hands, he really can’t do much against them in the first place but eat the chip. Just don’t be stupid and eat a Ex-move.
Bison is a poking machine so anything you whiff will lead in a BnB from him and then you’ll have to hope and pray on his cross-up game is lacking.
Good Bison players will Jerk you for your charge after a knockdown with Devil’s reverse so you’ll have to block his attack on the way down.
Bison is has a huge hit box if you cross-him up while he’s crouching. If you’re lucky enough to cross him up while he’s down there you can link cr.:mk: xx :hp: HHS Cr.:mk: :hp: head butt for massive damage. (If your the shit with Ex-HHS feel free to add one on before you start the combo.
Be careful of his Slide spacing, if done right it’s a potential Ultra bait and that’s not something you want to eat from him.
Don’t get to jump happy after he has Ultra meter, one screw up and you’ll eat the old ST combo into Ultra.
Try and force the teleport and punish with either Hands or Oicho throw.
Ex-Headstomp will get Bison out of trouble almost every time. It also beats Sumo Splash.
Watch out for a sneaking FADC into throw after a blocked bicycle kick, it’s a nice mix-up that you’ll see once in a while to make sure your on point.
If you have the life lead and become uncomfortable just kick back and wait it out. As hard as it is for you to attack Bison is as hard as it is for him to do the same.
-Over all this is a get good quick damage and run away match from what I’ve learned. Sneak in your HHS build meter and watch out for his cross-ups. Bison really can’t do good damage unless you give him the chance to.
[/details]

Makoto

Spoiler

YA!!!

Rose:

Spoiler

This is how i would approach rose…

if you block a spiral in a string and she doesn’t fadc back, you can punish with jab xx hhs
Fierce hb goes over her slide hit box and she eats 160 for free
Roses love to backdash, you can ex hb on reaction. If they like to mash on backdash (i.e. backdash til they’re full screen) pay attention to their dash patterns and get a free fierce hb.
Do not chase rose by jumping or random hb’s or random splashes, her jumping fierce is on the same level as boxers/ryu and isn’t to be messed with unless she’s jumping at you then by all means aa ex hb

-Be careful aa jab hb, her fierce hits really deep (ala claw boxer dictator rufus) you need to get it out early if you do

-If she’s running away (which rose should do in this matchup) you must get comfortable fierce hb’ing through fireballs, not randomly, but actually pay attention to her fireball timing and make an educated decision of when to hb. Risk- eat a fireball. Reward- 160 dmg/ 200 c.h. dmg

Rose’s cr. hp is REALLY good, like boxer/guile etc. but it is noticeably very similar to ryu’s, and has potential to beat all of you jump in’s and splashes clean. But if you expect her to down fierce your j. mp, jump from max range j. mp, but don’t press the button. She’ll whiff… MAKE SURE YOU PUNISH THE WHIFF CR. HP. It has like a year of recovery

-Patience is key (as is with most matchups with honda against fireball characters), the cold-hard fact about rose is that if she really wants to get away from you, she has a lot of good options (like chun), and she is probably going to get away. Respect this fact and you wont give up 500 dmg a round chasing her. Instead of jumping/dashing in and trying to kill her before she gets away and eating all that counter-hit frame trap b.s. dmg. Walk forward and block for a little bit, don’t try to setup some sick command grab, just punish her bs and patiently walk her into the corner. You may have to block 20 fireballs and 30 block strings, but in the end you haven’t lost more than 1/5 of your bar and you have her in the corner where honda can end it in 10 seconds.

-Rose has an amazing throw game, which she is used to mopping people up with, DON’T let her toss you around. Now if you have a complete download on her throw timing, don’t tech her shit over and over again, eventually she’ll get 1 or a c.h. combo from baiting your tech. If you KNOW, and I mean KNOWWWWW that the throw is coming… reversal. Ex hb if you have the meter, lk splash if you dont (or dont wanna use the meter). Not only are you getting the damage, but you’re throwing her out of her element and making her reevaluate what she wants to do to you.

Ultra Selection
Rose U1- Against honda this is by far and away her best option. It is huge damage that AA’s just like sim’s U2 (A PROBLEM!), meaning, if you jump you’re risking eating a full damage/unscaled ultra. If you get caught jumping and she activates U1 DO NOT PRESS A BUTTON! You land 2 frames earlier if you empty jump which might save you from the ultra, and if they’re on their reaction times you’re going to eat the ultra but you wont give them the c.h. damage. U1 also beats headbutt and splash for free, so like I said earlier, be patient and know that everytime you hb or splash or jump you’re risking eating that ultra.

Rose U2- If you’re playing a rose that chooses this ultra, you have the right to laugh hysterically to yourself for them giving up their best move against you, only to gain a little shenanigan that you’re just going to block. I’m sure you guys have seen all the wakeup U2’s, and crossup soul throws with this. Its your responsibility to know the shenanigans that come with that ultra and block them accordingly. Don’t try to hit her out of the ultra if you have a significant life-lead, because it can end up being big damage if you get caught by an orb. Now with that ultra, and if you’re playing in america, the rose is going to wakeup ultra at some point (almost guaranteed if you walk up to them on their wakeup). As long as you have more than 1/4 bar, I suggest walking up to her every wakeup until she burns it.

The 2 most likely scenarios after she wakeup U2’s:
a) The player is a dumbass and slides into you trying to get a c.h. combo or tries to soul throw for a cross up, but since you were the more intelligent player you blocked it, right?!
b) Rose player has a brain, and chills for a second to see how you react to the ultra. A lot of roses do this ultra just to get up for free, and think they’re so clever when they jump back and “get away”. But in all reality, they just burned their biggest damage potential because they were too afraid to block on wakeup. Not only that, if you have a bar and they jump back, punish with a late ex splash before she hits the ground. A lot of times you beat her clean if she’s close enough to get the invincibility of the splash (corner makes this super easy), or you will get a trade which is in honda’s favor imo, depending on how charged her ultra is you may take more damage (not much), but you k.o. that ultra and you’re knocking her toward the corner. Now if the rose doesn’t try to cross you up, attack you, or jump back, she’s probably going to create space by walking back or back dashing. A lot of roses think is cool to throw fireballs at you at this point because they may think you’re “afraid” of the ultra… See Section below for further details.

Leading to Honda’s Ultra selection…
U2- In my honest to god opinion, I think this is a completely garbage ultra that only has 1-2 viable uses in high level play. I know all of you have had the whiff’s and frustrations of the move attributes, but the move to its core is nothing more than a shenanigan. Ya, it’ll work on some people, and hhs facd u2 is dope and all, but its so easily avoidable and most good players aren’t going to get hit by it. And as for punishing with u2, its a decent move at best. The terrible range, along with the fact that you need to buffer the motion in a jump/dash/normal is going to limit the possibilities of when you can actually land the move against a higher level player. Once they change the motion to hcb, reevaluation is warranted on a matchup basis, but until then quit trying to empty jump 720.

U1- I really think that this is our bread and butter ultra, that any honda should use is all matches besides the mirror (unless you’re gdlk, at reaction 720’s in block stun to punish moves that are -3, -2, or -1, then i can see some viable uses i.e. gief using u1).

Back to uses for U1 against Rose…
-Fireball punish! Rose has one of the easiest fireballs in the game to U1 for honda imo. I can’t teach you how to correctly reaction ultra a fireball, it takes time, practice, patience, and serious concentration. But set yourself up for success, dont just stand there with a charge all the time and wait for her to throw 1 because she’s going to whiff some normal to try and fake you out, then you activate and look like a dumbass. Pay attention the whole match, from “FIGHT!” to “K.O.”, know when she is most likely going to throw one. (Its very common for people to throw a fireball after they block a headbutt. so when you get a 3 hb’s blocked in round 1, and she reversal fireballs every time, remember that so when you’re in round 3 and she blocks a headbutt and you see that “reversal” icon pop up under her name, ultra that shit. If you have rose in the corner knocked down, look for the wakeup U2 scenario and walk back to 1/3-1/2 screen to give yourself plenty of space to react to whatever she does. Look for that fireball, and U1… the rose player will be noticeably distraught for throwing such a bad fireball I promise you. At this point she’s probably dead, but if not she has no ultra and you have her knocked down in the corner at bare minimum 1/2 lifebar.

-Jump/whiff soul throw punish!

-A VERY educated reversal. You can think of U1 as a 500 damage ex headbutt… Its not the fastest/highest priority move, and there are a lot of ways around it, but if a every time a rose slides at you and she follows it up with a button (throw, another slide, cr. mp, backdash, ex spiral, fireball, etc.) Go for it! Dont do it every time!! but if she isn’t going to respect the fact that you have that reversal and keep pressing buttons right in your face, blast that hoe for a c.h. U1. Now she’s afraid and will probably try to bait it out next round, and that’s when that command grab comes into play A personal rule of thumb I use when deciding to Ultra 1: If you were to throw an ex headbutt out at the situation in question, and you feel very strongly that it is GOING TO HIT because of how your opponent is reacting to you and previous intel you may have from playing/watching a player, it is a legitimate risk to ultra especially when in a comeback scenario.

Other tips for success with U1 as a reversal:
Don’t wakeup ultra (99.999% of the time) as a random coin-flip reversal, only use it to punish RETARDEDLY poor crossup/safe jump attempts

Don’t Ultra every round, unless its a guaranteed hit (i.e. ultra/whiff punish)

Ryu:

[details=Spoiler]Ryu:
Despite some arguing here and there, I still think Honda vs Ryu is 4-6 or 4.5-5.5 Honda. Ryu is just solid in this game and getting in on him compared to most of the other cast is just difficult as hell. Not as bad as Sagat, but still hard. The biggest annoyance about fighting Ryu is his retarded amount of good AA?s. He has jab SRK, fierce SRK, s.rh, j.mp (L:DFJ:LSJKFO:SJFOWEJFWOJF) and a very good focus attack. Depending on his meter management, trading AA?s or eating any of these AA?s can often lead to 1/3 of your life disappearing so jumping is never a great idea.

So because of Ryu?s incredibly annoying AA defense, you?re kind of forced to approach Ryu from the ground. Hadouken isn?t as good as SB or TS so if you?re going to jump them, make sure to do it out of AA range (3/4 to full screen). Also, nj.fp is a great tool for jumping fireballs but don?t do them predictably because good Ryu?s can dash and srk punish (yes, my friend does this to me all the time). Once you?re at about a half screen distance from Ryu, stop doing laggy things that leave you open to getting jumped in on. Most shotos wait for you to lose charge and then hope in on you with fp or rh so keep out of sweep range and try to stay at a range where you can reliably nj.fp/s.fp/lp headbutt for AA.

If the Ryu is pretty solid, he?ll also have a good understanding of proper fireball zoning which makes your life considerably harder. He?ll be throwing fast fireballs in your face (yes, right outside your s.hk range) and will be throwing slow fireballs from far away to force you to jump fb?s while he?s free to move around. Don?t play into this trap and jump a bad fireball. Focus attack fireballs outside your s.hk range (hold f, hit fa+f) and then punish him with s.hk. For farther away fireballs, block or nj.fp unpredictably to avoid getting jumped in on unexpectedly.
Another thing that Ryu?s like to abuse, is Ryu?s ridiculously good c.mk. C.mk has a few properties that makes Honda?s life miserable. 1) it?s about the same range as s.hk, 2) it ducks nj.fp (:KJ:SDJKF:SLDKJF:SLJF), 3) it cancels into hadouken, super and srk->ultra. If a Ryu sees that you like to focus close range fireballs, he?ll start inching in on you and throwing c.mk xx hadouken to combat this. Keep in mind that max range c.mk xx hadouken on block has a hole between the kick and the fireball so you can ex splash and ultra between the two for free damage. If he?s doing this, keep walking outside of the c.mk range when he walks forward and whiff punish c.mk with s.fp. The c.mk makes Ryu?s upper body inch forward a hair so that it can be counter-hit with s.fp. 175 damage against a whiffed c.mk is an amazing trade. You can also try FAing the c.mk so that you counter-hit the hadouken in startup leading to a free oicho or c.lp xx hhs, s.rh (ideal).

A few things to keep in mind while working out your spacing. Nj.fp can move while airborne so a clever trick I saw a Korean Honda do was purposely bait c.mk?s with it. He?d nj.fp right outside the forward?s range and then whiff punish when he landed with s.hk. It worked pretty well. Also, if Ryu gets in on your or knocks you down and likes to meaty, keep in mind that Ryu has no safe block strings outside of light attacks. Strong, strong or strong, forward or forward+fierce, strong or even overhead, crouching forward all have holes and are free ex headbutt counter-hits. Don?t let him spam these untight block strings on you cause they?re clever frame traps.

A big craze a while back was to punish fireballs with ultra and while viable, it?s a really difficult thing to pull off consistently. You have to find ways to bait the hadouken and then have to watch out for ex hadouken?s and ultra baits (ryu?s will start to whiff normals, etc.). EX hadouken recovers faster than regular hadouken so it?s a bit harder to eagle eye (punish w/ fireball) but still doable. The best method I?ve found to landing eagle eyes is to whiff laggy normals. Whiffing lagging normals gives people the impression you?re not holding charge for some reason and they have a tendency to fireball. Also, people tend to fireball twice. I don?t know why, but after you fail to punish the first one, they often think, ?fuck this guy, Ima throw another one because I can.? That?s when you?re free to punish. Honestly, you?ll know if a Ryu is used to fighting Honda or not right when you get ultra meter because Ryu?s who know the match-up are REALLY careful about careless hadoukens. Nobody in Davis, CA where I play throws bad fireballs anymore /sad.

Another thing I?d like to talk about when fighting Ryu is trip guard and jumping with fierce. If you jump in on Ryu at the right range, about ? of a screen and stick out a fierce (the big slap), you will hit ryu or eat a traded SRK. If you don?t stick out the fierce, you?ll land and be able to block the late SRK cause your tripguard is still up. This range is the best range to jump because it makes the Ryu panic about whether or not you can be successfully AA?d so you get free jump-ins. Also, if you don?t jump at this range and magically still get a blocked jump-in, don?t waste it. Do a c.lp xx fp, hhs if it?s blocked or oicho for 50/50 mix-up. Wasting jump-ins is one of the biggest mistakes Honda?s make.

Other random notes on this match-up:

ryu?s c.hk is -9000 on block (actually, -14). That means you can reversal ANYTHING. You can block it, go rub one off, bake cookies, mow your lawn, and then come back and still reversal ultra it. I kid you not. If a ryu is dumb enough to get a c.hk blocked, make him pay.

-When a Ryu has ultra meter, you have to pay close attention to his super bar. 1) If he?s pushed you to the corner, he?s fishing for ex fireball into ultra. 2) If he has 2 bars and is attempting to cross you up, either back dash after blocking the cross-up or just eat the throw. DO NOT TECH CAUSE YOU WILL GET POPPED UP. 3) If he whiffs the cross-up, do not instinctively tech either. Just stay away from the guy when he has 2 bars + ultra. 4) When he has 3 bars plus ultra, he?s going to fish for c.mk xx ex hadouken, fadc, ultra. Block low or run away. Don?t try to counter-poke in this situation. 5) If he?s going for the ambiguous cross-ups without knocking you down, jump back roundhouse and don?t do dumb things like attempt to anti-crossup ex headbutt. 6) STOP JUMPING, Y U JUMPING??? 7) In corner if he walks up to throw you, he?s not throwing you. He?s going to ex tatsu you for a free ultra. DON?T TECH, Y U TECHING!!! I TOLD U NOT TO TECH!!!

-Super punishes all headbutts on block and if a Ryu has full super meter, don?t use nj.fp too much to jump fireballs. Jump the fireball neutrally so that you land right behind it to bait the super canceled off the hadouken.

-Tatsu?s an armor break, don?t FA too much or else he?ll pick up on it and randomly tatsu you. Tatsu on block is -6/-2/-1 so don?t bother trying to punish anything but short tatsu on block.
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Rufus:

[details=Spoiler]Honestly, everybody hates rufus, just like everybody hates blanka. They’re just annoying to play against and make weird noises as they jump up and down stupidly.

Rufus imo is one of the most annoying characters imaginable since dive kick is ridiculously good, throws are very good in this game, ex messiah kick (JEBUS KICK!) is ridiculously overpowered and rufus has like 1000 ways to land his ultra.

Inherent weaknesses rufus has are he’s really shitty without meter. There’s no fear when he doesn’t have ultra or ex messiah (250 dmg!!!). Also, his normals are relatively awful at not point blank range meaning s.fp/s.hk/s.mp and c.lp mess him up pretty badly. His FA also really blows.

In general, big things people do wrong against rufus are, they try to tech, they jump too much (im guilty of this too), and they don’t pay attention to their spacing. Honda has very poor option selects because c.lk is a 5 framer. It leads to unnecessary counter-hits and throws because if you don’t tech late enough, you get a startup lk which gets you messed up. To avoid having to tech, learn to jump back rh to box rufus out and to ex headbutt reversal very well.

Also, DO NOT STAND UP. YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAND THE F*CK UP. STOP STANDING UP DAMN IT. WHY YOU STANDING DOG? Target combo can only launch people standing up. That means as soon as you do something stupid like STAND UP TO TECH, you eat a target combo linked off a dive kick. Also, DIVE KICKS CAN BE BLOCKED CROUCHING. You also need to crouch to splash bitches.

Rufus’s combos work like this. Galactic tornado can only combo off of cl.fp. Cl.fp xx fp galactic is only safe on hit (there’s a hole between fierce and tornado). The only good link to cl.fp is s.lk and it’s a one frame link that does not link on block. Watch for holes and then punish attempts to do s.lk, s.fp on block with ex headbutt/splash.

Dive kick is a good jump-in that can link to target combo so again, don’t stand up. If you are not in corner, back dash, jump back rh, ex headbutt, ex splash, lk splash, fa backdash, do anything to avoid the damn throw tech baits.

The trick to fighting rufus is to be unpredictable without opening yourself up to rufus’s close offense. AA with lp headbutt, s.fp (chop works ridiculously well unless you do it too early), ex headbutt and lk/ex splash. Keep him out as best you can and when he’s close, burn meter to get away (ex headbutt) or hk splash and just eat the c.fp punish. It’s worth it. Do not do too much nj.fp because if the rufus jumps from below you, instead of from far away, he can rh you as the nj.fp is retracting, leading to ex snake strike and ultra. If you jump, make sure he’s half screen away, not 1/3 screen away, otherwise do jump back roundhouse cause he can’t reliably j.rh it.

In terms of offense against Rufus, don’t bother relying on HHS cause it leaves you too close and with unfavorable positioning. Rely on headbutt which rufus can’t punish (he can punish fp headbutt, but not mp, lp, ex). A trick is to throw a mp headbutt and then an ex headbutt in order to bait the c.fp from rufus on block. You just got a nearly 200 dmg counter-hit cause he stuck out his fat hand. C.Fp from rufus is -14 on block so technically you can reversal ultra it. There’s a reason why nobody does it in Japan (honda’s ultra is 10 frame startup).

Focus attack only works against rufus against really early dive kicks. Otherwise you’ll end up getting a weak lvl 1 fa that you dash into your death after.

Do not whiff unnecessarily against rufus cause you get hit by galactic tornados and c.fp’s. Against ex messiah kick on block, do an ex splash late. I found that to be the best punisher. If you don’t have meter, you can do lk splash which will trade with the overhead follow-up, or you can nj.fp and punish rufus on the way down if you spaced it right (rog does the same thing with wiggly punch). EX headbutt that goes head to head against messiah kick, takes full damage from messiah as if you?re grounded. EX Splash just gets knocked out and you take 40 damage.

When punishing rufus’s ultra on block, know that the last kick whiffs when you block the full ultra. He can be reversal ultra’d so just mash when the ultras finishing.

If you?re challenging rufus?s wake-up, which you shouldn?t do too often, make sure to watch for wake-up snake strike. Punish wake up snake strike by blocking and then doing c.mk xx fp headbutt for safe push away. Another good way to bait/option select against rufus is do meaty c.lp xx fp hhs. If he jumped or threw, you got a free hhs, s.rh. If he ex messiahs, you can still block in time since messiah starts in 11 and c.lp recovers in 7. If he snake strike?d, his first hit will hit you for negligible damage and then you can punish with c.mk xx fp headbutt. If he backdashed, nothing happens cause hhs doesn?t come out if you did the cancel right. So in general, pretty safe offensive tool. If you do a meaty lp headbutt, it?s also a good option because you?re airborne during the middle of the move so ex messiah?s do 1 hit only.

When you?re waking up, watch for the cross-up dive kicks and try to burn meter or ultra to escape the corner crossing up. It?s worth the meter. Rufus?s who knock down from mid screen away like to do a safe-jump fierce so make sure you block high when waking up if they ?re jumping. It?s a very tricky jump-in that doesn?t look active when he?s coming at you, but it is.

For a good example of how to beat rufus, see here:
[media=youtube]rcfDLOCxK2k[/media]
[media=youtube]YwzYYm9kNZc[/media]
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Mr.SNK · May 1, 2010, 7:06am

Sagat:

[details=Spoiler] 7-3 (20%/30%)
-Easily E.Honda’s worst match-up.

Get friendly with eating some chip damage and jumping over tiger shots.
The main struggle here is to get near Sagat, but once you force him into the corner the match-ups becomes 6-4
Tiger uppercut can punish blocked sumo slams so gamble with them wisely.
Get creative, it’s your job to figure out the Sagat your playing.
Most Sagat like to poke after Tiger Knees, throw out an Ex-Torpedo to counter hit.
Basically you want to make the Sagat player flinch or hesitate so you can capitalize on his mistakes.
Cr.:lp: can stuff the start up of a tiger shot and has amazing range on it.
Be very careful with your cross ups, Sagat is a Reallytall character so if you mistime it the block stun will be gone and you’ll end up eating a Tiger Uppercut.
-I haven’t tried it yet but I think you can oicho his walking :hk:.
If your feeling psychic and close enough, try to Ultra or Super his Tigershots and give him a little panic.
At a certain range jump in :hp: beats out his standing :hk:
:hp: Torpedo can be punished by Tiger uppercut and Ex-Low tiger shot.
Once he’s in the corner HHS the fuck out of him and force the compromise so you can punish.
Ex-Sumo Splash Beats out Tiger Knee
Play random as fuck in an attempt to confuse the Sagat player.
Play dirty and what I mean is random and dirty coincide with one another. When you have the Sagat figured to start doing random FADC’s and sitting real close to bait attacks out.
This match solely rests on you outsmarting the Sagat player. Don’t get discouraged or upset when you lose, you aren’t really suppose to win this match-up in the first place.
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Sakura:

[details=Spoiler] 6-4 Honda’s Favor

EX-Headbutt beats most if not all of sakura specials (except fireball ofcourse). LP headbutt as well if timed earlier.
Be careful of her jumping :hk: it snuffs headbutt when done deep enough.
Sakura’s cr.HP (anti air) beats most of honda’s jump ins clean. You may be able to get away w/ j.HP from very far but it’s unlikely. So don’t jump in predictably.
Option selecting against here is just asking to eat a wall of mix-ups and a potential Dizzy/Ultra.
Her cr.:mk: can catch almost all of your whiffed pokes and go into a Shoryuken, so don’t throw them out recklessly.
If she can’t cross you up she can’t hurt you, if you have to just take the throw.
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Seth:

[details=Spoiler] 6-4 Borderline 7-3 Seth
When you feel a hesitation betweening jabs/shorts/dive kicks, it probably means a spd is coming, nj fierce punish the whiff. It is worth the risk because you can score a huge punish if you are correct.

There is a sweet spot to fighting seth. DO NOT rush him when you have him in the corner. Stay just out of his j. Fp range (stretch arms) and stay there crouched to punish his escape attempts. Nj fierce if he tries to jump off the wall. If he tries to neutral jump his hit box becomes HUGE. You can hk buttslam from outside of his nj stretch arms range. Test this out in training mode to get the spacing.

Nj his fireballs from full to almost full screen only. Don’t get caught nj fiercing his booms at close range because then you can let him in for his dive kick crossup mixups.

Do not get knocked down. The easiest way for him to get a knockdown Is if you are going for random buttslams. DON’T do them.

Jesus chop/j headbutt/ex hb his unsafe dive kicks (duh)

Block his booms for christsakes, they do no damage. Don’t bother focusing them because it is a trap

Overall he has to play perfectly and I hate to say this, but you will have to as well. Anytime you have a punish him, go for whatever will push him into the corner over damage. He becomes very antsy in the corner and is very vunerable.
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T.Hawk:

Spoiler

Vega (Claw):

[details=Spoiler] (6-4 E.Honda IMO) But in reality 5-5
This match really needs to be played Slow and methodical.

Force “Bulldog” Vega into the corner, that’s the main objective.
Do not Whiff Oicho after you score a headbutt if Vega has U2 he can punish with a quick recover.
If he does not ex-Barcelona don’t be afraid to walk up and focus attack and score a nice punish. Just be careful of grabs.
Bait out his Backflip and punish it with U1 or Walk up and Jab x HHS him for free damage. The back flip works great when you don’t press buttons and he’s trying to run away.
When he does his wall bounce and lands on the same side of the screen where he started you can full screen punish with Fierce Headbutt while he’s landing.
Well times Jesus Chop is going to be used quite a bit for counter hitting and anti-airs so you can have the extra pressure of Super.
Be on the lookout for his Kara-Throw, it has amazing range and is lightning fast.
This match imo needs to be fought within Cr. :mp: range so you can keep hhs pressure strong and not eat his pokes.
Gamble when you block his overhead with Ultra 2, it’ll punish most of his pokes and a cheap attempt at a kara-throw.
If he whiffs U2 you can punish it with you’re strongest BnB
Vega can punish blocked MP/HP headbutt w/ slide (cr.HK) or ex.Barcelona dive (i believe)
Vega dive-claw off the wall (where he comes straight at you) and ultra are punishable by headbutt on block, or ultra if done w/ counter timing.
ALL of vegas non-EX barcelona dives (cross up or not) lose out to j.mk belly flop.
J.HK of vega beats headbutts if timed properly. Use it as anti air sparingly.
Jumping in/crossup w/ j.mk is a viable choice as long as you don’t overdo it, vega doesn’t have too many counter options here.
Due to his height you can FA under his wall-screw attack and it will sail right over.
When he Wall dives to the other side of the screen just simply wait til you turn around and New Jersey :hp:
Early neutral jump :mp: is an amazing air to air tool against Vega.
End note:
Honda needs to be surgical with cr.:lp: , :hp: and far :hk: good Claw players will zone you out with normals so you need to keep humble and slowly follow step one.
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Zangief:

Spoiler

General:

DON’T USE BUTTSLAM. AT ALL. Gief can spd/super/ultra you out of it. Only use might be to punish badly timed crossups attemps with EX, and even those are risky, since all reversal buttslams on wakeup can be safejumped or you might do it too early missing the autocorrect window(or not missing the autocorrect window but missing gief). Only other use is as a VERY EARLY antiair, but you have better ways to anti air him.
DON’T FULLSCREEN HEADBUTT “JUST IN CASE”. Just stop doing it, I shouldn’t have to tell you that lariat on reaction > all headbutt variants(even super/ultra).
DON’T JUMP FORWARD. AT ALL. This is similar to the buttslam issue. Crouching lariat beats or trades with all your jumping forward attacks, even the almighty air jesus chop a.k.a. j.MP(and if it trades you get the friendly ex green hand as a bonus). So WALK FORWARD. Also, don’t try to cross him up with j.MK, same rules apply.
THIS IS NOT VANILLA! So yeah, sometimes people forget that lariat has been nerfed and that you can actually punish close lariats with a c.MK xx hands xx super or something like that. Also learn the differences between PPP and KKK lariat(the sound is different, the punish too). Punish whiffed lariats, even from full screen!
PUNISH HIS JUMP IN ATTEMPTS. So he wants to jump in? LP/EX headbutt, jesus chop(situational), nj. fierce, jump back HK or even early buttslam his ass. Just let him know that he’s a fool for trying it. Every time.
PUNISH WHIFFED STANDING HK. Some giefs will go for a whiffed standing roundhouse into something(usually spd). Train yourself to either punish it with c.LP into hands or jump backwards. Jumping is not the best idea but if you can’t punish the s.HK it might be better than eating a super/ultra.
BE AWARE OF GREEN HAND RANGE. Some giefs try to go for a whiffed green hand into spd(once in a while) or will try to EX green hand your footsie attempts. Be aware of that range so you don’t try to whiff normals or go for a NJ. fierce(that can be punished with ex green hand) if you’re abusing it. Ex version has the most recovery(-9 on block), but even on hit(any regular version) the most frame advantage gief gets is -5(and -7 on block) so punish accordingly.
DO THE “JUMP OS”. Most giefs will go for a crossup splash and then tick into throw, or go for the crossup knee(d+LK while jumping) into 360+k(or even empty jump into spd/super/ultra). As you(might) know, fierce blockstun is bigger than light blockstun, so you can train yourself to block and immediately wiggle the stick/pad up/up back and then go back to back or down back, so if gief used a splash, nothing will happen, but if he used a knee you will jump and avoid the grab(since the grab is his safest option). Timing is a bit different for the empty jump(faster), but it still works.
DO THE “JUMP OS” PART 2. So, you’ve been practicing the c.LP/c.LK/c.MK into hands but you’re not 100% there yet? Ok, after the move you’re canceling the hands into, buffer a jump backwards. If you don’t get the hands, you’ll jump to safety, avoiding the mashed [insert special move here]. If you do get the hands, good for you! There’s an extension: jump backwards and do an early roundhouse, it’ll beat his lariat if close enough, and if he did EX green hand instead you can throw him upon landing.
REMEMBER YOU CAN HANDS INTO HANDS INTO HANDS HIM. It might not be your best combo, but I’ve noticed it makes giefs very defensive afterwards. Nah, seriously, remember that you can go all “combo video” with gief. Just don’t miss, otherwise you’ll be eating mashed EX green hand/spd/ultra.
MIXUP THAT OICHO. Giefs get comfortable knowing that they have one of the best command throws in the game, if not the best. So they can grow careless and start to block everything you throw at them trusting their tech abilities. LP Oicho them from max range! Oh, and don’t oicho them if they are in the corner, just do it if it’ll give you the round/game. Same for hands FADC into oicho(only use it if it nets you the win).
BE PATIENT. So he’s out-turtling you? nonsense! get him to the corner(as slowly as it might be), then watch him die trying to get out. Punish his jump attempts, be careful with the ex green hand(block and throw him into the corner again or “combo video” him), use s.HK/s.HP/c.LP into hands, or all of the above. Let HIM fall into YOUR traps, you don’t have to rush him. Ever.
TRY TO READ HIM. Ok, so he knocks you down, does his LP green hand and then blocks, trying to punish your reversal? Oicho his ass! He jumps a lot towards you? Wait for him and punish him! He waits for you? Be careful with your approach! He always does the same blockstring? EX headbutt through it! He tries to s.MP you to death? Jesus chop that shit! You have to read him before he reads you, so you might wanna make some planned mistakes to see what he knows about the matchup. Just make sure that they aren’t your last mistakes.
DON’T PANIC. Ok, again, he got a knockdown, do a proper evaluation of what’s going on. Do you have both charges? Can you do the autocorrect headbutt? Is he jumping early enough so that your reversal ex buttslam will get him? Is he jumping or is he short jumping? Does it matter? The only way you can do this is if you don’t panic. If you DO panic you’ll start to make mistakes, like hold upback(or downback) and you will be punished for that because that’s what Gief wants you to do. So don’t fall for that. The only way you can keep your cool is to get used to the matchup, to know what to expect and what gief can and can’t do. And you’re going to lose in the meantime so anyway don’t panic. At least, a lost round can always give you a read of what to expect and what mistakes you shouldn’t repeat. Finally, a great gief will do stuff that will surprise you anyway, so keep your cool too so you can learn something about it and maybe counter it on the fly.

Honda vs Gief “Flowchart”:
-He knows how to punish nj. Fierce?
-NO: Spam it. Seriously. Afterwards if blocked use a mix of s.HK, s.HP, c.LP xx hands, max range “tick” oicho or jump and do another one.
-YES: Use VERY sparingly, and punish his punishes accordingly. Avoid his s.HK range(or bait and punish it), and punish his c.HP/c.HK punish attempts with early mini jesus chop nj.LP(counter hit) into c.LP into hands into hell for him. You can sometimes hit his s.HK with nj. HK but its a trade slightly in his favor so it’s better to just bait and punish it. Only properly spaced df.HK can’t be punished 100% of the times from a neutral jump, but it can be trip guarded if you do nothing in the air and block upon landing. And after blocking, you can combo his ass since no matter how meaty his df HK is, his frame “advantage” will range from -11 to -4(worst case scenario, very rare) and your c.LP is a 4 framer.

-He mashes [insert gief special move here]?
-YES, he mashes EX green hand: You have 9 frames(if blocked), you can normal throw, oicho or c.LP/c.MK into hands. So block and punish. Better: bait, block and punish. Or bait(or predict), jump backwards as he moves towards you(with all that butter on him) and combo him as you land. Careful with your links(don’t use them).
-YES, he mashes lariat: Don’t jump as often, crouch and punish. Or use nj.HK(from very close), nj. fierce(from a distance), j.kinda early fierce(from far). Do them all on reaction. Only nj.fierce works preemptively from the right distance, the other options can trade/be beaten by crouching lariat. Also oicho wakeup/regular lariats if he doesn’t know the unthrowable lariat trick(press up and then lariat).
-YES, he mashes spd/super/ultra 1: bait, neutral jump into HK/HP into ground combo. Punish every whiffed grab, even with far HK. Don’t do any links, honda has NO SAFE LINKS AT ALL, HE CAN’T CHAIN HIS NORMALS AND YOU KNOW IT. So if you’re attempting to link some normals in a nice blockstring, guess what, any normal you throw there might be SPDed afterwards on block, or sometimes even on hit too. Hell, even blocked c.LP into hands in unsafe!(the pause between the c.LP and the hands can be grabbed by ex spd/super/ultra, it’s hard but it’s possible) So just (neutral)jump/backdash to avoid the command throw and then punish.

He got you with a nj. fierce?
-Back up a little bit, you might get stunned easily in a follow up combo. Don’t do it predictably tho. Or get him to block some of your stuff too, whatever makes your stun meter go down. Except blocking, if you keep blocking his attacks your stun won’t go down.
He can’t punish blocked buttslam?
LOL. Spam it to death, so next time you play him he’ll know how to punish it. Even better, tell him that he can punish it.
Nothing works, he’s IFC Zangief/Kilivan/Vangief!:
-Do your best, and prepare to be read to death. Embrace it and try to learn something from it. Heck, record the fight and watch it many times. Check gief’s inputs, OSs and such. Upload it to youtube and post it here!

SlappySlaps · May 3, 2010, 1:11pm

kk… gonna contribue here… rog match up is pretty much the same, though U2 punishes blocked overhead

haitian_sensation · May 3, 2010, 10:23pm

Adon - Can punish his Jaguar Tooth off the wall with oicho throw.

Dudley - Can jab him out of any of his machine gun rush. An early j.mp can stuff if not trade with any of his normal AA options.(not sure if it trades with his jet upper) Zoning and keeping him out his the best option I see so far.

T. Hawk - Similar to Zangief, stay out of his grab range and keep him away. Punish his Condor Dive with headbutt or oicho if its done really high up. Nj.fp cripples T.Hawk but watch out for his Tomahawk Buster.(srk) Bait it out and punish with jab xx hands, oicho, or any ultra.

That’s all I have for now. Hope this helps.

Telepathic · May 4, 2010, 12:18am

I feel like T.Hawk is more of a grappler then Gief. All the Hawks I’ve played were spinning the stick after every whiff. Lp.hb > EX.HB when countering dives. The slower start up makes it not trade or get beat like the EX does if you timing is too early. I have stopped trying the crossup T.Hawk. His hit box is so tall that your cross up has to be very deep to cause enough hit/block stun to not get reversal spd’ed. Obviously no butt slams. They equal a spd on block and lose to dives. T.Hawks air normals are big and beefy like Gief. they have good priority and range. You have to be precise with you AA timing. His dive will cross up if he does it close range.

AA U2’s (Gief, Gen, Hakan, T.Hawk) don’t jump it’s not worth it. If Gief is jumping at you with U2 you need to either just block or try to s.hp AA him. Every other option BS, HB, Ultra1, early jump hp, nj.hp or back dash eats U2.

DeeJay. J.mp can beat slides, but it is timing and spacing dependent. unfortunately just like the guile or Sim matchups Deejay decides the spacing and timing more than you. I have had Deejay’s slide beat, trade, and lose to j.mp. His slide can be trip guarded with empty jumps. The hit box in the upward foot is not active the whole move and seems to be better at hitting you if you push a button then if you empty jump. Unfortunately Deejay has other options to zone you out. Behind slow max outs he can j.hk, early j.hp, knee shot (d+lk), slide, s.hp, cl.mp, ex.upkicks, lk.upkicks, or nj.mk. His wake up game is weak. With out meter meaty c.lk/c.lp xx HHS / oichio mixups all day. When he has meter his only option is ex.upkicks. It whiffs most crouchers but I don’t think Honda is one of those. Deejays crossup game is strong and he can also do decent damage in the corner. his overall damage is horrible. His BnB’s do 150-200 damage. The matchup is not in Honda’s favor. It play out like the Sim, guile, and Chun macthups where to get around the zoning it requires you using the right tool with the right timinig with the right spacing. Then once you get in get big damage before they for you out or die then you make them come to you.

jewelman · May 4, 2010, 4:15am

much like in hd remix on dj’s wake up cr mk hhs every up kick except ex whiffs i believe

Bruce_Deluxe · May 4, 2010, 8:44pm

Dudley: Blocked headbutt is punishable by ultra (rolling thunder) but not by any special moves or normals.

Pyth · May 4, 2010, 9:13pm

think thats all headbutts too, even ex?

Telepathic · May 4, 2010, 9:37pm

He can punish hp.hb with mp.machine gun blow.

SlappySlaps · May 5, 2010, 12:07am

yeah all headbutts can be punished with rolling thunder, freaking stupid…
note to self, never headbutt dudly when he has ultra.
You really gotta have jab hands down for this fight.

Murry · May 5, 2010, 6:59pm

I don’t know if this was in vanilla, but there’s some weirdness with Dhalsim’s yoga fire hitbox in super which coupled with honda’s FP headbutt can result in some great damage for honda.

Of course we all know that identifying fireball patterns and throwing out headbutts to hit in the startup animation is one way with dealing with fb characters, but due to weird move properties honda can land his headbutt on the 15th frame of sim’s yoga fire (I’m positive that theres more leniency to this though) and actually avoid being hit by the fireball at all. Although, you can only beat the fierce version clean, the LP version will hit you after the headbutt has landed. It’s still an amazing trade for honda though and a great way to get a knockdown and pressure sim.

If you don’t understand what I’m trying to say, take a look at this
[media=youtube]tF9uS_rrLe0[/media]

haitian_sensation · May 5, 2010, 11:47pm

Guy - His air elbow can be stuffed out with a late headbutt or cl.hp. Still haven’t found a way to his rolling shoulder. EX headbutt doesn’t work.

Mr.SNK · May 5, 2010, 11:57pm

Gent’s compile facts instead of posting dribs and drabs. It’s going to be a real pain in the ass searching and I don’t check the boards everyday.

gutabo · May 6, 2010, 12:10pm

Copying and pasting my post from THIS THREAD:

Having tested the yoga fire thing, I can say that it’s not a bug. I got it to work 100% of the times, but it’s VERY situational. I think the EX headbutt has invincibility against yoga fire in some frames only.

Here’s how I got it to work 100%(training mode of course):
-both characters at full screen
-have sim throw a LP yoga fire(for the sake of the example)
-wait until dhalsim finishes saying “yoga fire”, then wait a little bit more(split second, not sure how many frames) and do the ex headbutt
-if done correctly, it should pass through the yoga fire cleanly. Sim should be able to block it.

I saved sim doing yoga flame and walking backwards afterwards(repeat), and I got it to work 100% just getting it the first time, then jumping back, walk back a little bit, then doing it again.

Timing is almost the same for the yoga fire EX (or, wait a little bit after sim stops flashing yellow). For the MP and HP versions it varties a little bit, (again, it’s always after he says “yoga fire”) but honda can go through them too. Maybe there is other moment during the EX headbutt when it works too but I haven’t done much experimenting. Haven’t tried it online yet.

If you try it and can’t do it, you should note that sometimes the yoga fire hits honda in the head, and sometimes it passes through some of his body but hits him in the chest or legs, that should tell you that you’re close.

I’m still experimenting but I can see that working in other scenarios(like, closer to sim), it’s just a matter of finding the right timing or get used to the weird frame invincibility timing.

I think it doesn’t changes the matchup that much because sim can block the HB, but it should scare sims that don’t know about it for a while, until they figure out it’s not like blanka’s ex ball.

Also, from the same thread:

Hope that helps!

mysticnamja · May 7, 2010, 3:02am

i have tested LP overhead dash punch from Boxer If you really wanna be safe, always use oicho as ultra 2 has the range of normal grab… the only time it worked for me 100% is in the corner. becuz mid screen, honda gets pushed back and boxer pushed back so you can’t do normal grab only oicho punish.

in the corner however, theres no space to move back for honda and balrog only moves forward, allowing u to reversal 720 him after blocked overhead.

this is only for lp non ex overhead punch i have tested.