Honda Match-up Thread: After the war 2010 AE

I’ll get some videos of how to blow up cody, he can’t attack honda at all and you can keep him at bay with Cr.Jab. It feels like a 7-3 for us.

Really man, i’ve always found cody’s zoning very hard to deal with, i don’t think he has any reason to attack honda when rocks, St Rh and back Mp are all so good, not to mention the fact that he punishes mp headbut.

I do agree that cody has a problem trying to mount an offence vs honda. I’ve played some very good cody’s who lose for free because they think they have to attack.

Very interested to see how you deal with cody’s zoning.

Any tips on Gouken’s zoning? I mean god that sure is annoying.

Push em to the corner and pound him there. There are at least two write ups on this thread around here some where.

^ yes searched your posts it was you who wrote them :slight_smile: It was just as what I dreaded it to be: a patience game. There’s just no shortcut around it but to walk Gouken to a corner and that’s where he’s vulnerable. I now appreciate hands pressure more and more. Still got beat last night but maybe today or tomorrow Imma clobber that person.

I’m sure this was addressed way back in Vanilla, so my bad on this question: What do you do against a Blanka that knocks down and just keeps hopping over your body, killing your charge? I feel like i can’t get anything going against any decent blankas. Thanks in advance fellas

If you’re being jerked for a charge, don’t rely on it. Blankas love to corpse hop and throw so consider looking for the tech when he bounces behind you, but when he bounces back again to be “sneaky” you could escape by a buttstomp that flies in the direction he’s going away from to fly out of harms way (can’t jerk buttstomp charge) but don’t make this obvious as that is easily baited. Block and tech is generally the best option. Fighting Blanka should ultimately be a turtle fest as he’s just the personification of a troll character; if you get confused or frustrated they will run you over as that’s what they are designed to do. Frustrate them by not playing the game their way. Also, cr.mk beats electricity so cr.mk > headbutt is good stuff but mostly applies to bad green trolls. Hope this helps.

I don’t know if this helps, but my training partner eltrouble always does the Ibuki Honda match with me and I definitely haven’t gotten this match down solid yet, but here are some pointers I find useful. Ibuki may seem broken in the hands of a great player, but keep in mind she’s a glass cannon.
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]Kunai’s are thrown (vortex tips):[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[]Non Cross Up “Ibuki is at a lower position/angle to your head and timing of kunai is quicker” - block regular (this is also where you can punish with Ultra1)
[
]Cross Up “Ibuki is at a higher position/angle to your head and timing of kunai is slower” - block opposite (be careful of using Ultra 1 to punish or escape because a smart Ibuki can read this and dash after you and use ex neck breaker.)
[/LIST]
[INDENT=1]Typical Jumping Normals (vortex tips):[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[]LK (can cross up based on timing) - her legs fold under her
[
]MK (can cross up based on timing) - leg stuck out
[]I would look up her safe jumps because there are MANY OF THEM @.@.
[/LIST]
And even though Mr. SNK had some really good tips, to be quite honest these moves are unsafe in the youtube video, a GOOD Ibuki will NEVER use them randomly. For instance hien (command overhead kicks/backwards z motion) are usually only used after a setup into super, and what sucks is the timing gets f
**-ed up for your punishes, especially ultra 1. I tend to only stand up and block if I see her with a super bar. She has some nasty setups for her super so look out!
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]Common Super Setups:[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[]LP>MP>HP (target combo) >hien>super (this is unsafe however Honda specifically cannot punish it…im 98% sure… but this super setup can be a great read in the hands of a good Ibuki) Advice: Block or depending on angle dash back…certain angles you can hit her out of the air but a good Ibuki will space it so that you cannot.
[
]Combo or Alone HK>super (can be a frame trap if dash before HK and you’re mashing) Advice: Don’t mash
[]Remember her super does a decent amount of chip I would say 5% on Honda so be careful of that.
[/LIST]
[INDENT=1]My tactics for beating her:[/INDENT]
[LIST]
[
]DONT GET KNOCKED DOWN! LOL otherwise the vortex may change the match up to 8-2 Ibuki’s favor. A good Ibuki will also rely on other tactics to mix up the vortex such as dash in throw, or dash behind shenanigans.
[
]Before she has Ultra 2 or super she cannot punish your headbutts. After she acquires it I believe only ex headbutt is safe…and I think only at certain distances.
[]When she jumps in on you NJ.HP or LHeadbutt or EXHeadbutt or S.HP depending on what attack she uses and be read to press focus in case she pauses in the air for a kunai. When she jumps in your reactions HAVE to be on point or she WILL tear your A** up!
[
]cr.LP>cr.LP>s.MK Not a true block string so if you see this pattern, between 2nd & 3rd move LHeadbutt, EXHeadbutt, or MButtSlam (depending on spacing otherwise unsafe).
[]Mix up your ochio setups they do BIG damage on her and keep her away and scared.
[
]Tsumuji loops ALWAYS ATTACK THE LINKS (its 1 frame)
[]Play the life lead, you’re a 500 lb. big sumo wrestler and she’s a 90lb. lil ninja girl…trades are in your favor :slight_smile:
[
]The only 2 cr.LP HHS hands combos that works on her (to my best knowledge) is
[/LIST]
[INDENT=2]Cr.LP HHS > S.HK[/INDENT]
[INDENT=2]Cr.LP > Cr. MK > EX Headbutt (only works when she’s crouching)[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
I’ve barely covered her to be honest…she has a pdf guide for christ’s sake on the forum that’s under its 3rd revision @.@ She is one of those characters where you have to know her as much as your opponent. Ibuki is a VERY advanced character…so I think that beginner Ibuki’s are a 8-2 Honda favor , whereas with more advanced players (check out Gabe aka Millhouse at WNF ) I would say the match up is more 5-5. I would even considering looking at her forums since there is many more things to cover. And please let me know if you find anything yourself, I am always learning new things with this match up.

Good stuff, also like to add some quick things.
[LIST]
[]Ibuki’s like to poke with cr.strong which is cancelled into neckbreaker to start the vortex. You still have better footsies than her, but you have to watch for this and be sure where you strike.
[
]Her reversal is bad (5f) so use safejumps and pressure her hard each knockdown. Just watch out for kunai if you block it, free ultra if you see it.
[*]Tsumuji kick loops aren’t as safe as they think. If they abuse the high-high-low pattern you can medium headbutt the low kick for free.
[/LIST]
The key is not letting her vortex and then being calm about it when you wind up in it eventually. The best advice for reading how to block is to watch her jump arc for sure, as she has too many options to really keep on the pulse of every setup IMO. Oh, and watch for dash under vortex shenanigans.

I completely agree with your strategy :smiley: But the cr.strong is an option select so in essence if she throws it at the wrong space you can block then punish. Knowing you’re spacing for Honda’s HK is a MUST HAVE in this match up.

[media=youtube]0xjYSfmUGcE[/media]

[media=youtube]Xp_GdFL5Qyk[/media]

U1 also punishes it before it lands. And why would you post a chun vid outside her forum?

Seth matchup needs reworking I think. Basically it should say give up now and save yourself some time, yeesh. Jumping mp is still the go-to, as done early it’ll stuff incoming air attacks and done low enough you can catch and intercept a low stretchy arm standing fierce. If Seth ends blockstrings with sonic booms, use medium buttstomp to beat it clean. When you get hit by SPD, his jump in is safe, don’t do anything but block. Infact trying to AA anything at all isn’t even a good idea it seems, if the Seth is good enough. Dive kicks stuff all headbutts and he has safe jumps and option selects to beat everything else. Jumpback mp is your only hope. Seth punishes medium and fierce headbutts so don’t do it to poke either. Honestly the only thing I think we have going for us in this matchup is a telepathic u1 on booms or stretchy arms, at least against someone who is really good. If they aren’t a good Seth its in our favor maybe 6-4, if they are good its like 2.5-7.5.

The fuck can we do here?

Wow I remember saying SOOOO long ago. I get to play against a very good seth everyday and I’ve realized this is easily top 3 hardest matchup.

My advice in the matchup is simply take risks. You gotta know the seth player too, some play hella lame and others are just in your ass offense after the first knock down. If the seth player knows the matchup pretty much the only thing you can do is take risks because he has an answer for everything.

Its funny, I had more success being a turtle. His up close game against a good player is too on point and he has every option to beat you clean. The only weaknesses a Seth player has is his health and trying to deduce patterns (and learning when they know you caught on and will try to do the opposite of their pattern if you follow me).

To me the gameplan is laming like no other. His booms are weak and his overall damage isn’t much, especially at range. All he can do is throw booms and standing fierce, so if you stand out of standing fierce range just neutral jump his booms or block if you have a lead. So if you wobble nj.fierce, he will smack you for it with stretchy arms everytime, so we can’t do that. Just nj, and if he tries the poke with stretch arms, tap him with nj jab on the way down (its hitbox is great for this). I find you can beat it clean often but it can trade, and while trading fierce versus jab damage is a weak idea, honestly any damage at all is good damage with his poor health. Trade enough he may try to rush you and then you can do something about it like jumping mp. If you have ultra and he whiffs stretchy arms, that is your perfect time to smack him on reaction and our only real offense. But hey, if you’ve been chipping him out on trades, that might even be the round for you. If you zone like this, eventually the Seth will get antsy and boom and try to mess you up with a teleport crossup, and the solution is just a jump back fierce. You will trade but it is much more in our favor. Rinse and repeat and try not to get cornered as that’s when the jumpback will fail (if you hug the wall). If you do get cornered I’d run or even roundhouse buttstomp just to fly away and run all over again, even taking ultra damage for the whiffed buttstomp IMO as then you have position to lame him again.

The good news is the Seth plays in my scene and I got to play him live, so after the session I chatted him up about it. He feels its Seth’s best matchup, but pointed out again the flaw to Seth is the player pretty much has to play perfect and can’t risk any damage, so any damage makes him think twice and guess again. If you can shake the player’s confidence you can work on shutting him down.

My two cents.

A few things I never do vs seth now is AA with st.fp and buttdrop at anything. If you wiff or he blocks a buttdrop you eat spd into whatever mixup is on the menu today. The seth player in my area(zaith) lost to a turtle rog at a tourney last night and it was a disgusting match to watch. I can’t lame seth out like that, I guess he knows my honda too well cuz it never works for me.

I got to play luckystars sim the other day too…smh wtf shit seemed like a 9-1 matchup at worst.

sim, seth, chun and sagat are the 4 worst matchups imo.

Yeah I’m with you there, I have a hard time being a true turtle and I always wanna Ross it up. Course, I lose when I do that so… yeah. Practice I guess. I know one of my faults is when your in a footsie match for example or against a shoto who is determined to bait a jumpin and I just lose patience. I either walk too close and eat a fireball in the face or do exactly what they want and eat the dp. In the Seth matchup I’m a better turtle because well, I’m too terrified to do anything but turtle. Absolutely correct on the buttstomp though, if its blocked you are fucked, so be damn careful when you use it.

I don’t get much sim practice so I don’t know quite how bad it gets firsthand but I believe it. I’d also add Guile to the worst matchup list too, everyone else is sorta doable (good shotos just barely).

Seth can’t punish butt drop, his piledriver is too slow. The only version you have to ban when you play against him is the HK version, you can use LK, MK and EX versions. He cannnot punish those. Many Seth try to punish blocked MK butt drop, you neutral jump and punish them. Seth is no Zangief, his piledriver is slower

Reversal timing, he can punish them.

Maybe it’s a height matter because Hakan who is way shorter than Seth can’t punish it with the same startup (3 frames). MK butt drop leaves Honda at -2 disadvantage on block and Seth/Hakan’s piledrivers start in 3 frames