Honda Match-up Thread: After the war 2010 AE

Dhalsim is the character who competes with Sagat as the worst match up for Honda.

Bison can at least teleport behind Dhalsim and ex pyscho crusher eats yoga fire, so have an way easier time.

With Honda, a blocked headbutt means to eat U2 and you are forced play as a total coward, moving very slowly and hope that he tries to attack first. Try to stay at jump in hp distance and do it sometimes randomly. If you guess bad, you will be hit by a knee for about 10% damage, if you guess well you will connect for a 30% combo or more. You must risk to win this fight, there is not solid way to beat him.

My only effective trick is to use an headbutt and do U1 after the first hp from dhalsim if he likes to punch twice after a blocked headbutt, also you can autocorrect U1 if he tries the fireball -> teleport back shenanigan.

If you make him block a jump in hp, go for a unsafe follow like hp hhs since it works like a frame trap and will catch him fully if tries to grab or jump. Once he learns to block, follow the blocked jumps with oicho to catch him. Once in the ground, his first option is usually to teleport, punish it the first time (OS cr hp -> hhs/headbutt is the best option) and go for a meaty oicho the next times. A meaty oicho has priority over Dhalsim U1, you will grab him unharmed. Finally ex headbutts beat all his long pokes, with two ex you can go for blocked ex hb -> ex hb, is a waste of meter but is priceless when he is near dead.

Yep, hard match up. But did anyone catch Mike Ross and Filipino Champ at Devastation? Mike made him look free as hell. Maybe they play each other too much or something because Filipino has no problem taking out Hoodaman at Starbase arcade (they might be on different levels though. I like Hoodamans Honda a lil more than Mike’s)

Quck thing vs Yun, when he’s knocked down in the corner St Hp will beat all his wakeup options aslong as you do it from just about the range where it does 80 damage. If he Dp’s or tries a wakeup divekick the st hp will knock him out of the air and you get a quick reset.

Not sure where to post this, since the Honda forum doesn’t have a general question thread stickied.

Anyway, I’ve been trying Honda for about a week now. It’s taken a bit of adjusting because his moves don’t really work like the old-school SF2 Honda that I’m familiar with but I’m starting to get the hang of him. So far, it seems like my biggest problem is mashy / frame-trappy type tactics. Cody, Makoto, or pretty much anyone that’s able to get close to me and then mash a bunch of quick moves seems hard to deal with. I can’t Ochio, cause that seems to be a crap move in this game. LP headbutt also seems crap. EX headbutt sometimes works if I guess right and want to spend the meter. Anyway, just kinda curious if this is his natural deficiency, or if there’s a general way to deal with this kinda pressure. Any advice would be welcome :slight_smile:

Your only options are to block and tech while looking for an opportunity to EX.HB out of the pressure. It’s worth the meter alot of the time. Reversal and AA EX.HB’s are the main reasons Honda needs meter anyways, so don’t be shy in using it to get out of bad situations.

Honda’s horrible FA and back dash make the tech/FA back dash OS’s ineffective for escaping pressure. LK.BS can sometimes work but the invincibility wears off before the first active frame and at a low enough height that it loses to mashed crouching jabs and strongs. But it can catch frame traps with medium normals in recover, armor break FA’s(reversal), and force frame traps with lights to block or OS.

You also have to be very careful with your throw techs. Crouching short is very slow (5 frames). I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been throw out crouch techs. It’s almost like you can frame trap Honda’s crouch tech with throws (bullshit).

Thanks. Guess I’ll have to work on blocking more and being sure to stock as much meter as I can.

Which is why a meterless AA (LP HB) is going to be a welcome addition (welcome back).

In the character stickies, Cody is blank. Any tips on how to handle that match? His frame traps and high meaty nj.HP after knockdown seem to destroy me.

Cody

Having played a ton of games vs an excellent Irish Cody Xbl Tag “Ladnopokaa”, these are my thoughts on the match.

It’s not codys frame traps or Nj Hp that make this a very hard match for honda, Cody’s zoning when applied correctly can be damn near impossible to get around.

It’s very hard to approach on the ground because from my experience Cody’s St Rh blows up honda St Rh, that move has crazy active frames and it’s tough to stand in a position where you can whiff punish it successfully, it also does a good job of keeping Honda grounded much like Sagat’s st rh.

The other huge problem is seemingly endless arsenal of amazing AA’s. Back Mp will beat consistently beat all of Honda’s jumping attacks while St Rh and Hk ruffian also work great.

Cody can also punish mp and hp headbut with Mk ruffian, Ex ruffian and Ultra.

The trick to this match I’ve found is make it as much of a guessing game as possible for the cody player. You have to vary your jumpins both in terms of range and attack.
Hondas jump Rh will beat (not always) codys St Rh, the most effective way to beat codys back mp is either with very early jump jab or empty jump into Cr jab HHs. Of course St Rh and will blow up empty jumps so its important u recgonize the situations when cody is most likely to use back mp, Its usually in situations where there simply isnt time for him to use a different AA. This could be if you manage to sucessfully jump over a whifed normal or you immediately react jump when he throws a stone from fairly close.

It is possible to play footsies with cody however that St Rh is an almighty pain, your going to eat a few in the grill for sure. There is a range where honda can stand where he can whiff punish with his own st rh but it is very hard to get there. The better option is to counter poke with Cr Hp, the hitbox of that moves goes straight under cody’s boot and you can get 175 dmage on a ch.

Be careful when using jab HHs on cody, if you do it from to great a range he can punish with either st Rh or on occasion Forward Rh - MK ruffian (240 dmage), going for st rh after blocked hands is also risky as Cody can CH your St Rh with Cr Lk xx Cu.
Buttslam is should only be used vs cody when your sure it will crossup otherwise back mp owns it free (obv never use buttslam if your opponent shows you he’s going to focus crumple it).

The Knockdown is the most important thing vs cody, once he’s on the ground his options are reduced to a reversal that doesnt punish meaties and is punishable by hands, a back dash that goes nowhere and holding up which is the last act of a desparate man.

Early jump jab tick straight into oicho is something that works the majority of the time. Get creative on his wakeup, it’s vitally important u take as much life as you can as each knockdown is hard to come by. Be careful about ticking into oicho off one cr lp, iv’e found cody players have a very high propensity to hold up in that situation and you dont want to eat a full NJ HP combo. Super is very important against cody so try to conserve meter in order to maximise your punishes

The general Strategy against cody is cautiously try pressure him to the corner where he is susceptible to hands pressure and walk up oicho and be smart about jumping, try predict which AA he is going to use and counter it accordingly. Cody’s pressure game while scary at first glance is reasonably easy to escape. Ex head-but will blow-up anything cody can do obviously also St tech can be very effective vs him… throw him right out those frame traps (Do Not Cr Tech vs Cody!!!). Honestly in this match you want cody attacking you because the alternative is a lot harder to deal with.

Great, now hondas will have more chance of beating me.

Fraaaaaaaay

Get out, scrubby sakura players are not welcome.

Humph

Wow, thanks for the terrific write-up stev0!

I’m having a lot of trouble with the Balrog matchup. I know it’s supposed to be an even matchup but I’m having a REALLY hard time with it. In mid range, I get pressured by dash punches. In close range, I just get poked to death. How should I approach this matchup? How do I open up a turtly Balrog?

To truly open a Balrog you first need to know your own safe ranges. Also you have to observe at how this balrog player is playing, because it will all make the difference in the end… For example, does the Balrog enjoy using dash punches? If so, try to practice reaction throws or focusing his dash and punishing him…

Never try to go close range with Rog since his normals can out do you, especially his light jab. It comes out in 2.5 frames, but also his other normals can hurt you if you aren’t careful.

Best thing to do is to just play it cool in this matchup, avoid using headbutts too much unless you know its safe (rog can punish hb easy)… Walk into a safe range and punish him with s.rh or s.fierce… Try to bait him into making mistakes or rather, just get him to move forward… Instead of jumping in and losing unecessary spacing, just walk forward and see what he does… 99% of the time, he’ll try to dash punch you which in that case you focus punish… Be brave with Honda, walk in and start throwing out hands too!

Use focus, so he will be pushed to use armor breaking punches that are less safe on block and turn punch which limits his game. I suggest Ultra II for this matchup, you can punish dash overhead with it.

Personally Za, Ultra 2 really has no merit in most of the matches played since if it whiffs you’re bound for a hard punish. Also, there aren’t many good setups that can really utilize its capabilities. Ultra 1 would be better suited since on reaction you can ultra any of his punches.

You have to use Ultra II in reversal when you are sure it won’t whiff, for example after a blocked EX jaguar tooth. In AE 2012 they added a shortcut so the execution will be easier, and the move will come out even if you miss a hit. Right now if you miss a hit you get EX oicho which is a waste of meter.

Although I see your point Za, Ultra 2 in many situations just isn’t worth it in my opinion. I find that Ultra 1 has more variety in terms of its uses regardless of the matchup. For example, it’s easier to punish fireballs, or to whiff punish, even use it as an AA. I just see it as more of an important tool than U2.

That isn’t to say that U2 is bad by any means, its just that in crucial moments U1 would be the better choice overall. U2 is hit and miss and despite the buffs it’s getting I doubt any one would use it predominantly. EX oiicho I feel is worth wasting, again which depends entirely on the situation. However, I do understand your point where if trying to utilize the U2 and oiicho comes out then yea…