Honda Match-up Thread: After the war 2010 AE

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1141

I got destroyed by Vega(Claw) today! random notes:

claw can punish all headbutts! its a little weird though:

HP - U2, raw EX barcelona, s.mk, further testing by me shows he can also punish with raw c.mk combod into ex barcelona for big damage, don’t do this.
MP - U2, ex barcelona, s.mk
LP - c.mpxxEX barcelona, big damage, can’t punish with U2, can’t punish with s.mk, can’t punish with raw ex barcelona

EX - this is where things get weird. similar to Blanka, Honda’s headbutts somehow recover differently at close and far ranges. if you’re up close trying to blow up a kara throw and do a point-blank reversal EXheadbutt, claw can punish with c.mp(no follow up possible, works with and without his claw). If youre in the corner he can do c.mpxxwhatever and hurt you. If you’re farther away and do a random EXheadbutt, he can’t do anything.

even though his anti-airs suck, his flipkick and U2 will beat anything you have if you jump and he’s sitting on charge. c.hp, s.hk are both good too. jumping isn’t really a good idea.

EXheadbutt beats any of his jump ins if timed right, if timed wrong you get hit out by his jump fierce or roundhouse. S.hp trades in most cases but every now and then one of you will beat the other cleanly. The trade is in honda’s favor though, and the lifelead is the most important thing in this match up.

pushing him to the corner is the only real way to get damage on him when he’s up on life. you can punish an ex barcelona escape attempt with HK/EX buttslam in a lot of cases I think. I had a lot of trouble with this in my matches and a reversal HK or EX buttflop is the only counter I could find to a barcelona where Vega goes through you(gives counterhit damage too). Doesn’t work all the time though but I don’t think he can punish you for trying, just sets up a really shitty spacing and you have to work your way to him again, but that was going to happen whether or not you attempted the punish anyways.

EDIT: further testing shows you can chase claw down with j.mp after blocking ex barcelona if you don’t have charge in some cases.

if vega does a stupid walldive and lands on the same side, EX/HP headbutt or U1 his ass. if he’s stupid and tries to go for random blocked exs into the dive or the throw, cs.hp, NJ fierce, exbuttflop beats him out pretty reliably.

1142

Fierce Headbutt can also be beat with Standing Fierce and cr. Roundhouse (if its up close)
Even Honda’s Close Standing Fierce can be punished with cr. medium, EX barcelona (his stand Round might be punishable too)
So yeah, Vega sucks.
FYI: be on the look out for this Cosmic Heel, Jump bk Fierce move a bunch of Vegas have been doing after a knockdown. I’m not sure how good a move it is (maybe its supposed to screw up Hondas charge or something) but most try to land a throw afterwards.

1143

Cl St hp is 0 on block.

Vega can be a pain, like fei you have to be careful with hhs pressure as his cr jab/mp make it unsafe quite alot, vega punishes blocked st rh easier than any other character.

Generally you want to use cr lp to walk him to the corner where he dies, i tend to treat the match like Sim, get in and go nuts.

You can jab hhs him right out of his rolling attack.
Ex buttslam done late will beat all wall dive mixups.
Good idea to jump forward on his wake up every so often to bait the stupid flippy thing he does.

Don’t get frustrated, vega’s whole gameplan is too annoy you to death, match can be tough but i feel its still in honda’s favour.

1144

I think its 5-5ish. it was in honda’s favor in super though probably. Similar to bison, blanka, boxer, if you hit him a few times early and get a meter, there’s very little he can do. but unlike boxer and bison, Claw has legit damage and sneaky ways to hurt you with his kara throw, also he can confirm a c.mp off a low MK at a ridiculous range for big damage. other random notes: s.hk is punishable at closer ranges by Claw’s c.mp. if you have bruce lee reactions or he’s doing it from far away you can c.lpxxhands, ex headbutt, anything his rolling attack.

1145

Out of courisoity, who did you play? Was this on PSN or at a tournament.

1146

some random guy on XBL.

1147

I’m sure this is very basic to get out of, but how do you deal with a Blanka who just hops on you over and over when you are on the ground, messing up your charge? I was under the impression Honda wins this matchup or am I wrong?

1148

I think its even now, maybe in blanka’s favor a bit early on until you have a meter or two. if you have meter and a lifelead its basically impossible for blanka to get in on you and vice versa. iirc blanka is negative after s.japxxhop and c.mkxxhop but not sure.

1149

Anyone else a bit worried about Rufus supposedly being able to land his LK, HK(launch) target combo in all the cast now?(see: 2k12 beta changes)

1150

yes, but I think Abel and Sagat are going to be bigger problems.

small price to pay now that pretty much every other match is more evened out though. the top 5 or so got nerfed pretty good +our improvements. so I wouldn’t be suprised if Yun and Yang are even now and Makoto is back in honda’s favor.

1151

I can see Sagat as a problem already, but Abel? I don’t remember his 2K12 changes, some help please? Also I wouldn’t say that fei long got that nerfed, even Mago said something like “are those all his nerfs? LOL ono kthxbye no table flip for me” and he’s known for seeing who’s who in tier placement very early.

1152

nevermind, I thought breathless’ start up was reduced back to 1+7 or whatever. in AE he can’t punish exheadbutts with it anymore iirc.

I still think Fei Long will beat Honda, it just won’t be ridiculous anymore. The ground game is never in your favor but my real problem with the match is all his stupid reversal options that are either safe and do ridiculous damage like MK flamekick FADC chickenwing which does like, 280, now does like 220. No more jab into sweep, less often cross up chickenwings.

maybe with the hands hitbox improvement you can punish a misplaced rekka with jabxxhands and not get punished on hit now. also you’ll have a more consistent anti-air against his j.mp.

1153

I’m having problems against bison, he just keep bicycle kicking me, and he gets pushed to far to for me to punish

1154

If the bison is abusing scissors, try to find the range where it will only hit you once, and focus fish. Get some nice damage off a couple crumples and he’ll slow down on the scissors. You can also neutral jump at that range looking to punish scissors on whiff. Don’t do this too much though because if the bison is smart, you’ll start eating psycho crushers.

After a blocked scissors you have to feel out the player. See what he likes to do. If he’s poking with c.lk or s.mk you can ex headbutt. Porkchop will beat his s.rh from far, so will your c.mp. What the bison player chooses typically depends on the range he’s left at so you can also use that knowledge to guess his next move.

1155

So, when 2012 comes out. Are we gonna make a new thread? Because this Forum kind of skipped AE matchup notes. We should step our game up and get going on 2012 when it’s released.

1156

Don’t know if that’s necessary, though i don’t see what the point of having a consolidated matchup thread is if matchups like fei long and cody have no info in them. I don’t see the harm in having a separate thread for each matchup or at least the tough ones.

1157

Hmm, I’m not entirely sure, but maybe making a new matchup-thread would only be useful if the old matchups have changed drasticly compared to 2012, but so far I know it’s almost the same for the majority of the cast… (the epic return of lp headbutt must be taken into account for more approaches against an opponent without wasting meter, though)

1158

I would vote for splitting the matchup grouping a few characters each so is easier to follow and can group advice valid for various characters.

Making the grouping is the hard thing. It would be something like…

Shotos: Ryu, Ken, Sakura, Gouken, Akuma, Oni, Evil Ryu.
Zoners: Guile, Chun li, Sagat, Dhalsim, Dee Jay and Seth.
Grapplers: Zangief, Abel, Hakkan, T. Hawk.
Mix up: Twins, Fuerte, Guy, Ibuki, Gen, C. Viper.
Charge: Blanka, Boxer, Claw, Dictator.
Others with fireballs.
Others without fireballs.

1159

Yeah, that makes sense. So, just wondering. If I wanted to start a character specific matchup thread when 2012 comes out, i just make a write-up and post it under something like [Honda Matchup] “character name?”

1160

This thread seemed like the best place to ask this ; What do you guys think about Honda vs Dhalsim? Is this match up in Honda’s favor or not? I’d think Dhalsim has the advantage because of Honda’s slow movement and fat jump arc making it easy to zone him out but what do I know I main Bison.

Feel free to redirect to me somewhere were this topic has already been explored ( If at all it has been…), although I did not find anything when I searched with SRKgoogle up there.