A day at a casual session and lots of live play and I gotta say Honda doesn’t have it that bad against the twins.
Dat st.FP
You can land cr mk - hb on a cr oni after hands combo.
Yang can punish stand Rh with ex rekkas.
thanks for the info - seems like this forum died.
lets get talkin’
You can do the same for evil ryu… ex headbutt though… a shame the combo doesnt work on the twins 
Aside from blocking, is there anything that can be done without meter in order to counter C.Viper’s air burning kick shenanigans in AE on Honda’s wake up? Jab HB (with auto correct) used to be very helpful in this situation, but not so much any more. LOL
Hi all
I finally got to try AE and yes Honda is weaker now, but I am still gonna play just him and only him (as I did in every other version of SF4). I can still get a decent amount of wins online and against friends and even though I dearly miss the damage and tools he lost, he really forces me to play better now.
All is not good though. I can handle the twins, but their are matches now that I find absurdly hard (and I haven’t even fought half the cast yet). Guile and Sim are now nearly impossible for me to beat. I just can’t do it without j.MP (I even miss U2 for the Guile match lol), so if anybody could give me tips on those match-ups in AE it would really be great, since the tournament scene is sloooowly picking up here and since tourneys aren’t character locked, these two always show their ugly faces right after I manage to beat their Ryus and Yuns.
One other match up I really hate now is Gief. The difference in damage is pretty huge now and while before AE I was using a lot of HPs and HKs to zone him, I now get my limbs grabed from half a screen away! Right now I just prey that the guy doesn’t know how to beat straight j.HP, or use Lariat from point blank.
If you knockdown fei in the corner, jump forward roudhouse will hit as a crossup but then sometimes land in front like that akumas jump short.
Tricky mix up that can lead to alot of damage.
edit: works consistently on cammy too.
Yesterday I was playing Honda at a tournament. I’m learning a new character so I played him in winners and Honda in losers, which didn’t take long. Honda is weaker now. I find myself having to save ex meter primarily for headbutts, and I don’t think I landed a super all day. I can hit super with Honda from any fierce hands that can be cancelled with another fierce hands, so I’m not sure if it was just the way I was playing or the caliber that I was playing at but I felt so much more reliant on meter just for headbutting. The damage nerfs are noticable but they aren’t all that bad, especially with my style where I just try to get a 2x life lead then turtle on meter.
At the end of the day, what matters is matchups, and quite honestly I don’t think Honda is bad in this regard. In general, Honda loses to fireball characters and wins against non-fireball characters. Most people don’t like fighting dive kick characters, so the introduction of the twins is problematic for them, but honestly I don’t think Honda is put in a bad position by dive kick characters. If Honda loses to the twins, the matchups are still much more winnable than most matchups against the twins. Honda has the normals to keep characters out of his face, and this remains true even with the introduction of dive kicks. If they get in he has ex headbutt to get them back out and oicho mixups if he can take momentum up close.
Every time a twin gets in on my Honda I have no problem getting them out with a headbutt without getting hit by much. Now again, that might be because the twins are pretty new here, but I still think that if Honda has ex meter and vows to never blow it on just a prediction he has enough to keep the twins out. On the other hand, Honda can take momentum in the match with hands pressure. If you put a twin in the corner or one puts themselves in the corner, Honda can keep them there for long enough to establish hands pressure into oicho mixups.
Was thinking the same. How often are we going to see supers from Honda anymore? And even hands fadc ochio. That meter is worth its weight in gold.
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So, in Super i could read minds against sim and do some solid damage with headbutt goign through yoga fire. But now, that doesn’t work, my j mp is getting stuff by everything, even my early j fp is getting stuffed by all sim’s anti airs, what are u guys doing in that match?
and guile is as bad as ever. Flash kick nerf doesn’t mean anything when I can’t even neutral jump of sonic booms without eating the plethora of AA at guile’s disposal. Match is not winnable.
iirc pretty much all of dhalsim’s normals are vanilla status or worse in terms or damage. I believe B+HK did 110 or 100 in super and now does 90. s.hp does 75.
you can afford to take more risks as well as punish fireballs from a greater distance due to the improved U1
backfist from guile went from a beefy 120 to 90. also he builds a lot less meter so it isn’t like super where he can flashkick FADC in almost every instance where you did knock him down.
all bad match ups are pretty much the same if not slightly better as in super. Ken is harder, Seth is easier. All mid/low tiers from super are harder.
Yo, Kens cr. mp is gdlk. It seems to blows up alot of footsie play now.
Anyway. good shit from Mike “fucking” Ross vs Mago’s Fei. There was a super cancel sighting…ZOMG
I agree that I can take more risks but they are still risks. Honda’s tools to handle those risks are nerfed. Headbutt is nerfed, ultra 2 is nerfed, ultra 1 (while improved projectile invincibility) can still only punish booms or fireballs that are less than half screen away – spots where guiles and sims dont throw projectiles. j mp is nerfed. The only jumping attack that i can use to beat some AA’s is j lp.
Sure booms have been nerfed, but meter gain on Guile has never been the thing that has been breaking the matchup for me. Its just been the ability to keep me out. hell i can’t even turtle by neutral jumping over booms/yoga fire anymore because I’ll get caught by new anti airs.
honda does less damage and has less tools. I’d say Guile and Sim’s matchups against honda have improved greatly in their favor.
Guile and sim matchup is the same imo, everyone got damage nerfs so it evens out.
What a lot of people will soon discover is the seth matchup has probably become honda’s worst match up. Honda got a fat damage nerf, seth got a health increase…I used to think jump back fierce was dumb but I’ll gladly take super seth back. Since he has more health and honda does less damage he can take a few more risks, especially if honda is dry on meter. Once seth wins a round and gets super the match is over.The main reason why honda could sometimes win in super was solely based on damage.
I think the damage nerf is what is hurting honda the most. I’m fine with the other nerfs but if they are planning on updating this game again, honda has to get his damage back from super. I have been messing around with ex hands to get extra damage but sometimes you need that meter vs certain characters who don’t give a shit and will just keep jumping.
DJ has a short jump, why can’t honda get his back?
Actually ever since Vanilla, Honda’s damage output has been going down. Super Honda was basically a nerfed version of Vanilla Honda, damage wise. And you are wrong on the fact that his damage nerf is what is hurting him the most, his lost of anti air lp headbutt and jump mp is what is hurting him. Though jump mp, is still a good jump in tool, it just isnt as good as before. Honda is still a very viable character, you just have to play him a little different. Instead of relying on jump ins to get your damage, you need to play more footsies with him, and wear down your opponent with footsies. You also have to build meter with him a lot more, for using ex headbutt as anti air… but also, dont forget about your normals. Chop is still a good anti air, and if it trades, it is usually in Honda’s favor. Also, I dunno if it is just me, but anti airing with close standing fierce seems a lot easier now.
As far as the guile, sim, seth match up… it is still pretty much the same as what you should have already been doing. Honda can still beast on these characters once he gets in… but for most the match, you need to have patience. Also, learn some option selects with Honda… cr.jab xx HHS os with U1 (or ex headbutt), works great against teleport happy characters/plays such as sim, dictator, and seth.
vs. fei long what specifics are there? all I’m doing is trying to do is neutral jump rekkas and keep him away
very hard to get a read on him given all his wake up options on a knockdown. hard to get him off you once you’re in the corner. s.hk is punishable by full jab rekkas on block. c.strong, fierce, c.fierce are all annoying as hell to deal with. huge damage off a flamekick FADC.
Cant press buttons vs Fei at all. He is the “anti-footsie” character. Its seems like the best approach is to play it just as lame as him, stay in the right spacing where rekka pressure can be responded to with low jab and don’t press any buttons unless you are whiff punishing. And max range jab xx hands are a no-no unless you like to be in the corner. Take the chip from the rekka, its not worth the nj’ing.
Also, Ross’s match with Mago shows you have to take some risks sometimes. Ross has never been one to sit on down-back which for him works but I don’t think that’s in Honda’s favor vs Fei.
Fei vs Honda is probably my favorite match in SF4, its the ultimate test of spacing and footsies. Fei cant go for massive amount of rekka pressure as the second hit is punishable by jab hands though be careful to judge the spacing as max range jabxxHHS is punishable by rekkas. You should throw out Nj RH every so often so as to make the fei long think twice about using cr fierce or st rh to punish NJ fierce, make sure to whiff punish the cr fierce if you see it.
If your stuck in the corner don’t panic, the absolute last thing you want to do is to try ex hb your way out for obvious reasons. MK buttslam will beat rekka clean, its very useful as a tool to end pressure.
Don’t be afraid to carefully walk forward and pressure fei long, most fei’s from my expierience have a tendency to immeditely rekka or chicken wing after blocking HHS so throwout a st fierce to punish them or if your really brave an ex headbut.
St Fierce will beat chicken wing but make sure your reactions are on point or your going to eat the counter hit and 400 damage.
If you get a knockdown its not a bad idea to do a crossup lk buttslam, fei longs dragon kick in my expierience will not autocorrect so you get a free punish or a techable knockdown if you catch the back of it.
Fei’s jump mp is one of the most difficult jumpins in the game to AA with the chop, its best to avoiding using at ranges where fei can use his jump mp.
Chicken wing will often whiff completely on a crouching honda, make sure to punish if this happens.
Fei cannot punish jab hb if he blocks it crouching
Super is very important in this match as you really want to maximise your damage oppertunities and punishing sloppy rekkas with jab hands into super is always fun.
Although its true that St RH is punishable by rekkas, i dont think it is in every circumstance at least not with non ex rekkas. If its at max range or close to it i think your safe to try use it although in my opinion cr mp, cr lp and st fierce are the better pokes in this match.
Don’t let fei scare you off Neutral jumping, its your best tool in this match and the reason fei players generally feel honda does well in it.
The thing is EVERYONE got damage nerfs from vanilla, so its hard to compare that to what happen from super to AE. If you say you need to rely more on footsies and spacing in AE, then you shouldn’t miss j.mp that much. The move was really good but you shouldn’t just be jumping in with that all the time anyway. Also it is a much better air to air normal than it was before. I also don’t think I’ve really had to use lp hb on good players, they know better than to just blindly jump in on honda without meter. Now granted in AE smart players will take advantage of that but if you realize they are trying to take advantage of that then adjust your game play.
We have a local seth player whos really good and I’ve been playing that matchup up nonstop for since the beginning of super and I can clearly see the problem…damage. Most of the matches now come down to seth having about 10-20% health, in super he would have been dead. Me and slick rick both lost in the same tourney a week ago with honda because of pixels of health…all of these matches would have been over, but now we have to keep pushing and eventually high risk characters will finally get in and do what they do.
Whenever I play fei players who chicken wing a lot after stuff or from far constantly I ultra 1 that shit.