Nice! 
I’m from Toronto.
I know I’ve never been an active member here on Honda board, but I do lurk quite a bit. Anyway I’m a pad Honda player that is playing stick for the first time because of AE (God w/ the nerfs and adjusting to a stick I’ve had some rough days in the arcade). Anyway I’m a Nor Cal player and I still use Honda.
I’ll stick with him, if I can get used to it. Still feels like I’m playing a new character, one that I’m not very good at.
i’m sticking with him to the end baby!!!
i’ve since moved on from honda, but ive played a real good amount of him in AE and still manage to pull streaks here @ round1 in socal even on some of socal’s finest players
minus the dmg reduction/aa lp hb, he still feels right at home and still a threat imo. same thing w/ cammy, i still think she’s still a threat w/o her TKCS.
soooooo you feel all that and you’ve left him for WHO!?!?!?!?!! better not be a twin!
I’ve never posted on here and I use almost everyone in the game but I use Honda quite a bit and I have to say it always irks me how everyone talks about the bad stuff and not realizes the overall matchups in the game haven’t changed THAT much.
Honda has problems vs most fireballers in the SSF4. Yet some wacky tier list proclaims he is top tier. A character that technically loses to Chun, Sim, Ryu, Rufus, Guile and goes even at best with Ken/Akuma/Balrog/Bison shouldn’t be considered as such.
With that said, here are a few things of note.
This talk about Hakan. I use Hakan a lot but those “buffs” don’t make him better against other characters. Stand FP is his best anti air and he is VERY easy to bait and grab and mix up. Matchups didn’t change to make him go out of the bottom tier. He’s still one of the low 5 characters in the game. He may be able to oil up more but his problem is the wake up game. Dashing back with oil won’t save you forever. Super easy to figure out. The only ones I think that are worse are Dan, Gen, Blanka, and possibly Vega.
As far as Honda goes especially vs Yun…you can ALWAYS anti air everyone with EX Sumo Splash. You need to be familiar with angles. At this point you need Jab XX Hands to build meter a lot more than usual, but everything else he had is still really good.
Ground properties on Jab Headbutt make it able to go through fireballs like Ryu and Ken, etc as long as they are not using Jab Fireballs from anywhere on the screen. I know you couldn’t do that in SSF4 except on wakeup but you can do that now in this game. Helps with some matchups.
I never anti-aired with Jab Headbutt in this game. It was super easy to safe jump and block and why everyone was so in love with it I have no idea. I played Honda in ST and that was a REAL anti air. EX Headbutt is what I used in Super and I still use it in AE.
Yun is easier to keep out with Stand FP and stand RH Kick, but even then he can still get in because he has 3 dive kicks and if they hit low you will get comboed. I don’t think anyone realizes how dangerous the mixup games are with Yun. Rufus beat Honda in SSF4. To think Yun doesn’t give him problems in this game when he is basically Rufus/Cammy on drugs is LOL.
I’m not saying Honda is “great” but I think people “thought” he was great because they kept hitting people with that Jab Headbutt and if you’ve anyone that knows how Honda works that Jab Headbutt again is laughable for anti air because of the safe jump. Honda was always around the 12-14 mark and he still is in this game…Second tier.
hondas jab headbutt goes through fireballs without being a wake up?
where are you guys at on this information? lol
I know it works because people saw me doing it but it won’t work against Jab. Works the same against low Fireballs (any) from Sagat like the in the last game.
They said ground invincibility was buffed, so that is what they were talking about.
I love Dream Theater, and I hate consoles as well, but I have to disagree with you here. :razz: I think the fact that F+LK is now a special cancelable 3F normal that can be hitconfirmed off all his light attacks (including cr. LK, but it’s a tight link) makes him more of a threat. Crouching jab OS LP Slide gives him Zangief style footsies, but with no meter. His vortex is ridiculous, and his uncrouchable DDTs are strong if you condition your opponent properly. I will agree that he’s on the lower end of the roster, but that doesn’t mean much in AE. He’s still a good character with legitimate tools.
I didn’t know that jab headbutt goes through all fireballs now. That might help against Ryu at certain ranges, but it’ll be useless against Sim, he’ll be able to punish you for free. But I guess sacrificing a bit of life for positioning might be worth it. I’ll play with this some more next time I’m at the arcade.
bahaha fuck the twins. actually i still really like honda, i’ll keep him in rotation. his hhs pressure game is still good. and i know you know that jewel, bc you are the hhs king. you know, bc you use turbo and all. rofl.
speaking of hhs kings, wonder what happened to namameso =\
Dhalsim fireballs can always be traded with or Honda winning if hit at the point. Depending in the fireball they disappear right at a point where Honda can FP Headbutt anyway making it look deceptively like it goes through them anyway.
Now about this Hakan thing. Again, I use him quite a bit. I would say I know matchups pretty well with him, but you are talking about an UNSAFE Slide. It may come out fast as hell, but I think you are overthinking Option Selects like most people. That stuff doesn’t work on old school players because they don’t tend to “do” things on wakeup.
F + LK can go into what that makes his matchups better, oil? LOL
You have to take into consideration the matchups. He still has the same problems. I am not denying he is a better character but seriously, only the 5-6 characters I named he is better than right now. He is not better than anyone other than those and Vega remains to be seen as that matchup would go in Vega’s favor.
I mean, just because a character can cancel a jab into stuff doesn’t make them godly. Zangief and T. Hawk have been able to do that for ages and they have a better reversal grab. You still need EX Grab or Oiled up grab to have them REMOTELY close to the other grapplers. There is only so much Stand LP LP MP low LK Stand FP anti air regular FP towards + MP people will take with Hakan. Jab to Slide isn’t free, it’s not like you can confirm and see that ALL the time because again, the risk is unsafe still, but if you can tell me what characters he is BETTER than now I would love to hear it because the only other lower ended characters (Cody, Gouken, Sakura) are much better than he is still…
Also, E Honda Jab Headbutt goes though fireballs that are NOT done with LP unless they are Sagat low Tiger Shots.
F+LK goes into HP Slide…you can do st. LK x 2, F+LK xx HP Slide. St. jab, st. MP, F+LK xx HP Slide. It’s probably the most important buff he received. The fact that Oil Shower stacks now is also retarded, it’s possible now to stay oiled up for an entire round. Let’s say you LK Oil two times, that’s 12 seconds of oil. If 11 seconds go by and you oil up again, you get another 12 seconds of oil, rather than just another 6. That’s really, really good. The same rule applies when you have 30 seconds of oil.
And you don’t have to hit confirm Hakan’s cr. jab into Slide because it’s an option select you use in footsies. I don’t know if I’m being unclear or if you’re not getting it. When you frame it as “canceling a jab into stuff,” yeah, it sounds pretty bad. But really you’re canceling a jab into an untechable knockdown, which leads to safe jumps and ambiguous cross ups. Why are you even talking about unsafe slides, that’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. If you’re doing slides outside of hit confirms, OS cr. jabs or anti-airs, you’re doing it wrong. Yeah, Hakan’s command throw still has terrible range, I’m not saying he’s amazing. I’m just saying he isn’t terrible.
Also, why would I jab headbutt through Sim’s fireballs and hit him when I can jump over them at that range and hit him instead. I’m saying jab headbutt through fireballs fullscreen is pretty useless against him because he can just whiff punish you whenever he wants.
You guys are taking everything he said and throwing back in his face. You should need to say why should I do this, you should already know whats right and wrong. That’s why your reading the forums… To get better.
Thanks Dream, that helped me quite a bit. I’ve been playing like that since Vanilla b/c his Lp Headbutt was only good for stuffing ground attacks and could be beat real easy. I’m going to head back down to the Arcade this Saturday and play for another 5 hours or so. My friend from Tucson went toe to toe and the only thing he could say was it looks like you shouldn’t be winning these matches but you are. (Now since he’s a normal character you have to play slow and smart, you can’t just kill someone with 3 ex-headbutt and call it a day)
why is there hakan talk?
is there any word on s.lp actually being better? the handful of time I’ve played AE I wasn’t really thinking about it and didn’t test it out 
Tofu: Just because he has more oil doesn’t make him that much better, though. I mean, even the basic combo you mentioned with Jab to Strong Punch is a harder link. Damage with Hakan revolves around his normals and basic 3 hit jump ins. The F + LK thing is nice but range on this stuff is not great. Stand LK range you have to be up close, and his moves are slow, so again it’s ok, but nothing to change the matchup perspective. The oil buff is nice, but again, you completely disregarded the fact he’s only better than 5 or 6 characters in the game, so what the heck do the buffs do?
My point is you can toss all that stuff about combos at me all day, doesn’t really matter, that stuff requires setup and isn’t all that. His best moves damage wise are going to be anything from the stacked oil, the towards + Fierce, any grab, and the jump in 3 hitters. He’s not a scary character if you get hit up close with jab stuff because requirements are still different. He’s not Zangief or T Hawk with Jab/Strong easy mode combos up close.
And this talk about OS tech knockdown stuff. That doesn’t work on old school players. I’m telling you. Very overrated, you aren’t looking at this from a basic perspective. You use Hakan on me against my characters and I’ll use Hakan on you against your characters and you will see what I am talking about. Hakan doesn’t want anybody on him, he is stupidly vulnerable at that point and it becomes a guess game to them jumping up to Hakan air throwing to Hakan trying to grab and OS Jab to slide stuff isn’t going to cut it there at all. Stand Fierce Anti-Air is something you basically laughed at for some reason, but whatever, what do I know? I’m just an og player. I can’t do anything, right? =)
I mean, if you can say he’s better than even more than 5-6 characters still putting him very close to the bottom fine, but if not, what’s the point? Like I said, I play Hakan a LOT and I know the matchups very very well with him (and I do play the entire cast but I worked on Hakan a bit) and what you think is textbook play does not work all the time like you think. That’s why I love playing people in Street Fighter.
It’s like you said Mr. SNK, people think you “shouldn’t be winning” or something because if you do things people don’t realize or see on videos they have to make up something for it.
This game boils down to very very small basics with every character in every matchup. All those Hakan things don’t work up close against a lot of characters. What are you going to do against Dudley, attack him with that stuff up close? Hell no, you have to keep him out and make him come to you, the majority of those things don’t even matter and with oil YOU have to be on offense and it becomes another inching/spacing ordeal.
I really think a lot of people don’t realize matches do come down to 3-4 moves only against each character, but whatever, this is supposed to be a Honda forum, LOL
I just want to say thank you to everyone giving tips on the different matchups. I’m a longtime Honda player but my style mainly is robotic meaning I just do what the hell I want to do without knowing what works or not.
I decided to participate in casuals and I got my ass handed down to me but with the tips here I came back storming and beat them down the next time we met.
Thank you.
So Honda can’t be a random asshole anymore?
Cool.