Honda Match-up Thread: After the war 2010 AE

downback > Dudley. Seriously, he has to walk into shit to get inside. You’re Honda, you hit like a Mack truck hauling Mack trucks going downhill. Once he’s inside, he has 2 options if you’re patient. He has to overhead you, which is fairly slow, or throw you. If he has U1, don’t headbutt anymore. Viper can jab him out of all versions of machinegun blow, so i would assume Honda can do the same, as your jab is much more beastin’ than poor viper’s. If you’re playing the match correctly, Dudley will have no way to get inside. He basically has to psychic f+hp and hope you throw something out to get counter hit. I’m willing to go as far as to say you panic and start hitting buttons when he’s inside and you fall for his frame traps. You’re Honda, sloth and lethargy are you friends. Lame him out.

Updated an article I wrote yesterday.

http://shoryuken.com/entry.php?b=1456

Nice Mr SNK, i hope you don’t mind me saying this but its like a minature “Playing To Win”. I lap this stuff up. This is what SF is about, your mental state.

If only more people realised this. There is obviously a high amount of skill involved in terms of dexterity, but mind games and self discipline is where the action’s at.

Hope to see more man.

Definately more philosophical than i expected.
“I’d rather lose playing solid, than win by randoming someone out.”

I understand what you mean in that knowing that you did what you did because it was part of the plan and you were out played.
While just doing random shit with no strategy will only work for so long, if at all.

At the same time mix ups can be part of a strategy, however then you could discuss what in fact IS random? Is it not knowing? or is it mind games? Intentional or mashing?
My head hurts.

Thanks for clarifying that it must be the head that contacts the kunai for it to deflect it.

Guy Match up added.

Thanks man, and not at all. It’s kind of like a compliment and although I have never read playing to win I just assumed it would be insightful.

See I would like to debate this because I feel a proper mix-up is still in your favor and they have to guess right. Random would be like Jump in ultra or Green Hand xx Atomic Buster. Think of Akuma’s Vortex from Vanilla. Now remember how strong that was really didn’t seem random at all because he was still in the positive. So yeah if that makes any sense Mix-ups to me are Low risk high reward where as random is you saying oh crap I hope this works out of desperation.

I think in our context here, “random” would be something that, although has it’s place, is used at an inappropriate time and carries far more risk than reward.
So in that sense i totally agree with you. Not that i’m not guilty of that myself. When i’m behind and all out of ideas i’ve been well know to throw out a butt slam or a j.hb just hoping to catch something, anything.

Speaking of all out of ideas.
Boxer.
Getting spanked bad by him recently,
I know i need to be more patient but i just can’t see where any damage is going to come from. He seems to have more safe options, counters and does more damage to punish.

Can someone write up a strat for Adon? Or at least start one? I’ve got no clue where to start.

I’m with you on this one man. His pokes are godly, he can punish more than you and all you gotta do is let him get 1 cr.jab and you are eating ultra.

I know all the tricks like st.hp stuffing TAP, oicho or U2 for blocked overhead etc, but i dont get how to pressure him.

I only win 2 out of 10 matches vs rog. Definately my worst matchup by far next to a mirror.

adons can be st fp’d out of jaguar tooth but an ex headbutt before it hits is just as good as well as if you block it and ex headbutt if the adon rising jaguar’s or grabs after a blocked j. tooth, i’m not sure if a rising jaguar will whiff on crouching honda but really your pokes outprioritize his once again i’m simplifying the matchup but ibuki is trouble some with her invincible wakeup on top of mixup but havent ran into an ibuki that knows how to abuse it…

In the balrog matchup try walking up to balrog and making him move see what he does to react, if he walks back with you tag him with a st. rh or if he does nothing st jab HHS for chip, get into that sagat neutral jumping range where if balrog headbutts it will hit your neutral jump fierce but whiff if you empty neutral jump and punish accordingly. If you must jump in on balrog make it a mp to trade/beat his cr fierce…
also on balrogs wakeup stick a low forward into him and it will stuff every headbutt except the ex version, i’ve found that he can escape cross ups fairly well so mixing up low foward into headbutt or hhs if your able into the mix will do wonders…like any other matchup get him on the ground and keep doing damage for a lead and sit on it safely

Adon has been a really tough match for me. I did learn that Jaguar tooth (I think thats the name of his wall dive kick) can be punished with U2 by N.j>720. Other than that I get beasted on by Adons.

Random tidbits:
U1 can reversal punish Blanka’s U2. If timed correctly you fly right over the lightning or stuff him completely.
U1 also beats Bisons(Dic) U2 if timed correctly( I need to test the different ranges on this, but for a close U2 you want to reversal ultra right after he says “come”)

Thanks for compiling all this useful info! Honda thread is much nicer than T.Hawks :lol:

yeah man dudley is free with honda

so what would you suggest for the best poke against dudley? Im having a hard time with this match up when I am the one getting pressured.

BTW, since playing Super, I have now been losing to a lot of …

C.Vipers
Vegas
Guiles
Dhalsims

I never had trouble with them in vanilla.

My worse matchups in vanilla is even worse…

M.Bison
M.Bison
M.Bison

His U2 is pissing me off while Honda’s U2 is also pissing me off for not having any freakin’ range. You basically have to be right next to the person or hope the person is walking toward you instead of blocking for some odd reason.

The only good news is that these matchups are even more advantageous for my Honda…

Gief
Cammy
Shoto crew
Fuerte
Gen
and all the new characters. (I am thinking though, that after people get use to the matchup, Ibuki and Cody are gonna be a major pain in the sumo butt)

Just chimin’ in.

Well, if anyone has any words of advice against high level C.Viper crossup sheningans and M. Bison bullshat, let me know. I figure Dhalsim and Guile are just gonna be patient matches and lots of waiting for that open window of sumo destruction, so I will just deal with that.

Well, against Dhalsim, HP and EX headbutt go through his yoga fires now, but it’s strict timing. With HP you have to do it almost at the same time he does his yoga fire, and with EX you have to do it as he’s done saying “yoga fire”.

I’m also trying to figure out the new Guile matchup myself. Most of the vanilla tips still work, but now he can throw more sonic booms because of the reduced charge time so he can chip you more in th elong run. Also Sonic Hurricane can chip a lot and also can punish MP/HP headbutts, but you’re not going to use them unless you want to go head first against a sonic boom. If you’re going to jump j.MP is still the best option against his anti air normals, but LK flash kick now has same number invulnerability frames as EX flash kick(that means that he starts hitting on the 4th frame but can be hit from the 6th hit onwards)so he doesn’t need meter now to beat cleanly badly spaced jumpins(not that he couldn’t before, but you could at least try to trade).

I think god is angry at me. I couldn’t HHS worth the shit today. :sad:

thats cos you called standing fierce “Jesus Chop”

note to self: Never, when writing up about a match up, use the term “Nail em with Jesus Chop”
:stuck_out_tongue:

For Viper I still run with Ultra 1 spec. for her cross up game. She attempts cross up burning kick and comes with me to the corner for some bitch slappin fun. Also AC EX HB is how I spend the majority of EX in this matchup. Jump back strong also works really well against her sj arc from around half screen - 2/3 screen away.

Im going to try to have a much more through write up after this weekends CEO tourney here in FL hopefully getting some casuals in with Flash to test out a lot of what I plan to write. (and hopefully record)

This might be old or new but I just realized that close standing strong (2 hits) can be cancelled into d/f HK which further can be cancelled into ochio or hands (but not headbutt or stomp). The strange double-cancellation gives Honda a weird animation, hopefully enough to confuse the other player.