You guys have the right idea about cammy. Don’t tech! Remember you can eat 2-3 throws for the same damage you’d be eating from a ch dive kick setup. Make an educated decision of when to reversal. She is a lot like Rufus and the match is much easier played from a distance, where you have the ability to react to what she is going to do. Don’t ever block a crossup if u have a bar. Hb her for it EVERY time. She is one squishy little hoe and 200 ch DMV is well worth the cost. The other thing you have to train yourself to do is to Never walk forward with a lead and meter. I get caught up in the mindset of “fuck this scrub, my ground game is 100x better then this fool’s”… Then 3 ch st hks and a random drill I swore I was going to block later, I’m losing and she is on top of me. Screw ur pride and db that shit until timeout or she eats enough Hbs and the game is over.
Not enough can be said about max punishes. Block that drill and cr mk xx HHS. If u have the link down well throw 1 ex HHS in there. It hurts so ridiculously good on her ~400 if u were wondering.
Actually I learned this from lamer boi… After a blocked dk (with a dcharge) u + lk+ lp. Crouch tech / splash os. I kinda plink short to jab to try and avoid errant standing techs from coming out if you happen to be a little late u input
ross played amazing vs. air today, is it me or did it seem like he was trying to trade with DPs? he also did a lot of point-blank headbutts and command grab mixups (I think he hit air with 3 in a row at one point) edit: ross was also doing HHS into walk-up ochio, I do this sometimes but again, the threat of reversals scares me, I’m just going to have to start playing more risky I suppose.
he seemed more willing to go for chip damage, trades and tricks with pokes and hands peppered in rather than the other way around - I know for me I’m scared as hell of DP FADC and wouldn’t try half the things he got away with, I’m also not godlike enough to ultra through an EX fireball like 2 frames after it’s left ryu’s hands.
I want him to take this one, I think he has a good chance this time and everyone knows he deserves it.
Honda’s all about damage. He’s about small combos that deal big damage. That’s how his character has always been. The reason why this is acceptable is because he lacks many things that other characters have and has a hard time getting in on fireball characters.
I like Mr. SNK’s idea of losing the hands > st.roundhouse link and giving st.roundhouse knockdown (like every other game with Honda). I’d make that trade any day. I also hope to be able to do close st.fierce on command (b+fierce maybe?) but that will never happen.
E. Honda
[Specials]
LP Headbutt now has lower body invincibility instead of upper body invincibility, so it will be hard to utilize it as AA.
[Ultra]
U1 has projectile invincibility until the last active frame. U2’s command has been changed to HCBx2 from 720, so it’s easier to get it out. Also, while its range increased, it starts up in 2f so it’s possible to dodge it after screen freeze.
[Others]
During backdash, Honda is now considered airborne right after invincibility ends.
[Overall]
He had solid skills that builds high damage, so he had overall damage decrease. His basis of strength has not changed, so he can fight as he does now.
I wonder what kind of damage nerf we are looking at.
It won’t be completely useless it will be used more as a punisher now than it was before. hhs fadc u2 is probably done for but instead we will be using more of that meter to AA anyway…rolls eyes at capcom. This isn’t the end of the world, maybe having more lower body invincibility will have its uses and we will stop getting grabbed out of headbutts. Hopefully U1 comes out a little faster.
This biggest concern right now is damage nerfing. Hopefully it’s nothing absurd and only limited to his specials.
These nerfs won’t bother me one bit, I use Standing Fierce to AA and sometimes Ex-Headbutt.
As for the Damage, I’m not to worried about it because he’s still a monster when he gets in.
U2 is going to be great for punishes now, granted it’s not instant but when ever someone messes something up or throws out a back poke you can give em a lil churnin’ (HCB x2) to make sure those block strings are tight. (The Range is a big plus imo)
Having Full Body invinc on Headbutt is fantastic now, you might be able to actually punish shit if you have bad reactions.
This isn’t so bad and I’m sure the damage is 10% reduction at most.
Nah man, it’s your job as the Honda player to keep them spaced out and AA with Standing Fierce. (Or Trade)
And learn how to defend on the floor after a wake-up instead of counting on Ex-Headbutt.
Maybe I’ll just have to settle for trading hits… when I don’t have ex… either way I don’t understand why they made this mix of changes. If they wanted honda to be less down-backy, why not buff s.fp, or make close s.fp a command normal? Why make U2 2 frames? Oh well.
I’m thinking lp headbutt can be used similarly to how deejay uses his lk dreads, to counter footsies. I mean, s.fp already does that, I suppose we can get more damage off it now though.
Guess I was right. I did say a 2x HCM motion won’t be a 1 frame grab anymore at the start of this thread. If find this to be a nerf. U2 was THE ONLY big comeback tool for Honda (even tho it was hard to land vs good players).For punishing now ? Come man, you can punish for big damage just fine whit c.MK HHS s.HK
s.HP is not as nearly as good as lp.hb for AA imo so there’s another fairly significant nerf.
It all come comes down to the damage tho. Depending on how much they took off, honda can still be good or shit.
Honda came out unscathed as far as I’m concerned. The (warranted) damage nerf affects all of these tools, but other than that, we have:
No change to EX Headbutt safety or invincibility
No change to buttsplash invincibility (12/13F)
No change to Ochio throw range or start up
No hitbox or frame changes to st. RH or st. FP
No change to cr. jab xx HP Hands BnBs
No change to neutral j. fierce or j. strong
Ultra 1 is now something to be feared. I even think the U2 nerf was warranted; Honda is too mobile to have a 0 frame command throw that deals good damage. Also HP Hands, FADC, U2 is probably the best 720 set up in the game, outside of walking 720s. I can’t see his Ultra 2 being very useful, as comparable Ultras such as Guy’s are never used. The jab headbutt nerf kind of sucks, but I get a lot of mileage out of a properly spaced st. fierce. I’ve also been trying to work in jump back jab.
Why do I keep seeing this as a suggested balance change? It’s because no one would ever get in on Honda again. Trust me, I’d fucking love it if I could do that, but it just doesn’t make sense.
When Toronto gets SSF4:AE cabs in December, I’ll take some pictures and we can compare. I’m guessing between 10 - 20%. Let’s say they do take it down by 20%, that means that cr. jab xx HP Hands, st. RH would still do over 200 damage. Which is still pretty damn good.
Consider ourselves lucky… The nerf wasn’t that bad. :).
Good things I took from the update:
1: hopefully people jump at us more, jumping hp, st FP is still godlike.
2: less getting hit out of jab headbutts from sweeps, and dhalsim poke…(pray)
3: people won’t bitch at getting owned by Honda.
4: focus absorbing sweeps, step kicks, then ultra 2 will be easier.
Changes don’t seem to be so bad. Damage nerf to the tune of 10-15% is certainly warranted. Needing to save up meter for guaranteed anti-air makes sense too, and Mr. SNK is right on the money in that Honda players need to learn to block mixup rather than relying on having a get out of jail free card any time they have meter and charge. Now you’ll have to make more decisions with meter and that’s to the better. I’m not sure about Ultra 2, its usefulness will depend on how much more range it’s going to have, but Ultra 1 change is welcome and should help - especially if they speed it up a bit, too.
Keep in mind too that other characters will be nerfed/changed as well, so it’s still too early to say how Honda will do relative to everybody else.
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Ok so all kidding aside, I think Capcom is trying to turn Honda back to his ST roots of rushing other characters down. Lets be honest now, do you know how many people I’ve timed out on spite knowing that their character couldn’t get in on me?
And why would I block a mix up when I know I can hit it with a reversal? And even if I guess wrong, it’s safe. Get out of jail free cards are a wonderful thing. Maybe it’s scummy, but whatever, this is a scummy game. I was fully expecting them to make EX Headbutt punishable by the entire cast, remove the st. RH link after HP Hands, increase the start up on nj. fierce, etc. But Honda is still awesome.