Honda Match-up Thread: After the war 2010 AE

But how can I rush them down when everyone has invincible reversals that can be made safe? I usually do play a very offensive Honda, but it was always good to be able to sit back and play defensive

You bait them. If you block it and they FADC, you still won that exchange by forcing them to burn meter.

Thatā€™s a really important part of SF, figuring out when and where your opponent likes to reversal. I mean you have to eat a few DPs before you figure your opponent out right?

Guess that means no more jab headbutt into super. :frowning:

All those changes are ok, yo.

The only issues are the AA options, learn to block i guess?
Damage nerfed but both of my Ultras are now useful, especially U1, that buff changes alot of matchups. (like the Sim matchup)
Iā€™ll take that for sure.

Jab headbutt may not be a legit AA anymore, but is a big weapon for the ground game now.
Iā€™ll take that too.

Honda is still beast, imo.

Ok, thatā€™s what I thought it was saying about UC1. Iā€™m pretty happy about that as well. Getting fireballed out of UC1 can be pretty embarassing, not to mention aggrivating, and this could potentially shift the match up between honda/sim significantly once honda gets ultra, assuming that theyā€™ve kept his fb recovery the same.

I want to pick your brain about the jab hb change if I may. Does having lower body invincibility mean that technically he canā€™t be swept or low poked out of his headbutt during startup?

Could anyone make a jesus chop AA 101? I canā€™t seem to use it correctly

Wall oā€™ text incoming, Iā€™m pretty excited and a little scared, honda has the potential to become an absolute monster if the damage nerf isnā€™t stupid. the blog said he still does high damage, if the BNB (jabxxhands-> HK) is still like 220 or 230ish weā€™re still in good shape, Iā€™ll bet S.HP is down to like 110 or 100 and that most other normals got -10, but

psyched about U1 buff, psyched that (as far as we know) headbutts arenā€™t getting more recovery, everyone saw the damage nerf coming as well as being able to jump out of ultra2ā€¦basically heā€™s getting a tone-down the same as I bet abel and Guile will, weā€™ll see how severe it is once AE drops or the console version gets an update, overall I think we dodged a bullet

the Buff/nerf to U2 makes it less of a gimmick and more of a punishment tool, which is good because lately Iā€™ve been using exclusively U1 except in mirror or VS. abel and balrog - we donā€™t know the range on it but, if the range is good enough you can, for exampleā€¦

snag abel after the first hit of COD(-3, <3 reversal timings)
Rog after a blocked dashpunch(spacing)
rose after a poorly spaced drill (probably still using U1 here, again its yet to be decided)
Dudley after a blocked MGB
Fei after blocked rekkas (spacing!)
Adon after blocked Jaguar kicks
Annoying hondas after blocked buttflops!!!
etc. canā€™t think of anything else right nowā€¦but it makes honda a bit harder to pressure, we donā€™t know the range increase but thatā€™ll be the deciding factor, I really think this can change a lot of matchups, aswell as U1 being an actual anti-fireball ultra makes me really excited about having 2 ultras that might be half as good as Chunā€™s or Abelā€™s ultras

Damage nerf will be figured out once the game drops, I really think honda can be even stronger in AE if we donā€™t get the Sagat treatment and get more of a sayā€¦rufus treatment - nothingā€™s really changed besides damage and I think Honda has more potential as a solid all-around pick instead of needing a good alt to be able to play vs. Sim, Chun, etc.

LP headbutt as AA is meh as stand fierce is usually better (damage nerf might not make the trade worth it, you can always jump-back <insert punch normal here> or jumpback HK)

Overall weā€™re in good shape, I bet command grabs got a -50 across the board and headbutts are like 110/120/130/130 or 100/110/120/120 aswell as hands being 15 per hit instead of 20 or something like that (-10 would be bullshit)

so, a few more hits in exchange to actually be able to threaten/use my ultras could make honda a beast, U1 being equiv. to super in terms of projectile punishing makes it almost as dangerous as bison U2, abel U1, chun U1, cammy U1 etc. (probably better than Balrog U1)

This is going to make the balrog matchup even harder for honda, no more stuffing dash punches with jab headbutt. :frowning:

oh no e honda canā€™t be a damn fortress anymore. qq guys, the guy is still a damn good character.

Thereā€™s always command grabbing him out of dash punch, or neutral jump hp to jab hands, or focus attack, or c.lk, c.lk jab hands.

Donā€™t worry, its gonna be okay. :slight_smile:

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For anti air, Use Jump back Hard Punch or Kick, Weak Sumo Splash,

EX SUMO SPLASH, EX HEADBUTT, ULTRA 1, Striaght Jump HARD KICK<= for close approaching or HARD PUNCH

ULTRA 2 catching distance is increased> good news
ULTRA 1 > get through fireball can be punished by ULTRA <== is that good? eat a fireball just damage less.

We can do weak head butt after sumo splash. Opponents likes to use croach weak punch to hit honda lower part.

it starts up in 2f so itā€™s possible to dodge it after screen freeze. <== too bad. Does it still useful? it may punish by ultra

Woo, intrigued to hear about the change in your guysā€™ upper-body invincibility. INCOMING ā€“ YAOH! ///

I think now our fights might be just a little bit more action-packed instead of Claw using total keep-away as the clearly dominate strategy any time Claw gets a life lead.

(we got a nerf to the safety of our df.hk launcher and slightly slower ultra2, but a better cr.mk)

Have you tested it? Itā€™s 100% accurate?
I think it can be beaten by cammy dk/cs osā€¦

I will be happy if Iā€™m wrong :wink:

is this really akimo? or some kind of troll? either way he usually speaks the truth.

Troll, doing jab headbutt after a butt splash will get you thrown.

Now it will. May it wonā€™t in AE.

imo, the only big nerf to honda is the damage reduction. sacrificing upper invinc. for lp HB AA for lower body invinc. im happy with. might be a better wake up option now that it has lower body invinc. i hate getting poked out and thrown out of lp HB.

U1 is going to be beast now.

i was probably the only person who ever used U1 on a consistence basis but i dont see it being completely buffed like everyone is making it out to beā€¦ for someone to hit it successfully u still need to be half screen away from the person actually throwing a projectile and guile is basically not happening. if it is faster then yes it will be better and i dunno how bad lp headbutt will be now since it isnt a aa for a wake up yes better since he may or may not get thrown out of it on start up is better. but he always had aa headbutt taking it out now only to leave it for a ex is stupid. less damage is acceptable but taking out his best AA??? no need

It isnā€™t the amount of start up that makes U1 so crappy, it just has bad projectile invincibility on it (20 frames or so?) where as super has likeā€¦40 frames(??) of projectile invincibility but actually has the same startup as U1 - which would make U1 about as good as super for fireball punishes, not as good as chun li whoā€™s ultra is likeā€¦7 frames or something, but still a very good option against dhalsim, ryu, ken, chun li, sagat, seth etc.

right now U1 is only really useful as a fireball punish where you need excellent reactions to go through, a punish after a blocked flashkick, blanka ball, etc. or the occasional meaty ultra/reversal ultra through people who have unsafe habits such as, throwing fireballs after they block a headbutt, unsafe strings or roses/ibukiā€™s who abuse slides.

that still doesnt answer the question i posed earlier as to how it will help in those fights there still is a distance you have to play with even with a fireball being out. just giving it invincibility alone doesnt change the fact that if i wanna hit u with it i have a distance to where i can use it as a punish.