Thanks Edge I’ll throw that in.
What’s the best way to deal with blocking an ex-messiah from rufus? I think the LK followup is the armor-breaker, and typically they’ll go for either the high or low followups to trick you, so is doing a FA and trying to land the crumple the best option? Honda’s back dash isn’t that good, I don’t think that would be a good escape.
I’d check this on my own in training mode but I don’t have my copy of ssf4.
If you have a bar to spare, EX Sumo gets you out of follow up guessing, and a Short Sumo will trade at worst.
quick notes on guile(I’m mostly trying to expand on points already made in the first post): jabxxhands->jabxxhands works but you only get a couple hits on the second one, but its super cancelable and can help you get that tiny bit of meter, its also a bit better for positioning.
s.hk will sometimes whiff after a hands combo while guile is STANDING ONLY, use S.MP in this case its only 8 less damage on jabxxhands and you can nail him with super afterwards, use stand roundhouse when he’s crouching if you don’t have super.
c.jab is your best friend in this match if he tries to walk up and backfist or s.rh you, you can stuff s.rh and it goes under backfist if you both happened to press your buttons around the same time.
I feel like ultra choice is debatable, I love catching guiles who like to fish for airthrows with it, but you’re not going through an EX or regular boom unless you were born inhuman or take a guess, its also easier to punish blocked flashkicks, I’m sure most people are thinking “well no good guile will throw a flashkick out without an FADC, that’s scrub shit” please see: Daigo vs. Lamerboi, or Dieminion vs. anybody, don’t bank on them always doing it, but they WILL throw it out at some point or another, and its nice to smash them for 510 (also puts them in the corner if it doesn’t kill them)
you bring U2 for the same reason you bring it anywhere, it also punishes whiffed c.hp
you can cause guile’s c.hp to whiff on an empty jump if you’re around honda’s j.mp or hp range, it has a decent amount of recovery so you can do whatever you want (personal preference is to put him on his back, this is where the fun begins). as noted in the first post, don’t jump if the boom has been out for a considerable amount of time, he’s just going to walk under and c.hp you. also, don’t try to jump while guile has downcharge, unless you’re aiming for a round-ending trade off flashkick or c.hp he WILL flashkick you, and you lose this trade because you’re about to eat like 5 more booms worth of chip at least before you have a chance of getting back in, only jump when he’s just throwing a sonic boom, if not you’re eating airthrow (OP garbage) or one of his 31 anti-airs normals (c.hp, s.hp, backfist, df.hk, jumpback hk, jumpback hp, s.mk) you need to make guile second guess himself, make c.hp whiff a couple of times, or don’t jump at all when he throws a boom and holds up-forward looking for an airthrow(EXheadbutt him) luckily, j.mp is amazing and beats out just about everything besides flashkick or c.hp, you need to force him to over analyze, if you jump and do nothing and he hits s.hp, you get smacked, if you press j.mp (j.hk works too but I’ve had weird results because I’m terrible at this game) you can beat him out (spacing dependent, I usually go with early because sometimes I’ll still beat out a poorly timed c.hp) its a gamble in your favor, you always want guile to second guess himself, mix him up and don’t be obvious, guiles hate thinking and the worst he’s going to do is c.hp you and you have the potential to hit him for twice that + another shitty mixup
also, use command grab a lot, don’t be obvious with it but every single one forces him to guess between flashkick FADC (atleast you got him to waste meter) wake up jump which surrenders his positioning and can get him ultra’d if you’re using U1 or get thrown again
another thing I’d like to ask other hondas, what do you think about attempting to stuff the startup of his pokes/sonic booms? lately I’ve been using a lot of s.mp and s.rh in this matchup, all of guile’s pokes seem relatively slow with the execption of s.hp which is lightening fast.
lastly, a video of mike ross making lamerboi look completely confused. watch the second round, you’ll notice as soon as it starts, ross causes two of Lamerboi’s anti-airs to whiff (jumpback HK and stand HP) Lamerboi gets frustrated, and lets a un-fadc’d flashkick get blocked, ross uses almost every trick I’ve mentioned here and in the OP so try to watch this one twice and imagine what you’d do in each one’s position.
[media=youtube]iZYGTuUx4ys]YouTube - SNCR - SSF4 - Mike Ross [EH] vs Lamerboi [GU[/media]
hey, i’m a bison player and i’m planning to go to a tournament here in cali soon. i’m trying to identify the options every character can use to shut down the EX Psychocrusher as a getaway option on bison’s wakeup. For example, after the knockdown, ryu has jump in OS DP, chun li can downforward roundhouse and kick from behind, and she also has an OS c.hk or s.hk upon jump in.
What are honda’s options to beat this escape option? If you are extra generous, please let me know how you option select/straight up beat EX Devil’s reverse and teleport as well 
I played a weird but effective Gouken the other day. He would almost never use mp or hp fireballs but he would spam lp fireball. He would almost never use his counters. He would anti air me with c.HP. He would lame it out kinda like guile, and run away from me every chance he got, even using air tatsu to escape/run away and demon flip to avoid crossups. He knew well if I had charge before doing upward fireballs. He frustrated me like no gouken has before and he used my frustration to his advantage. I played him twice and he won most rounds by timeout. Any tips?
Not sure about anyone else but I played an Adon friend of mine for 80 games last night (End ratio was 34-46 for me) and I had a pretty good footsie game going with him with my St.Hk and St.Hp. Just had to keep it basic and kick and chop when needed for footsies and anti airs. Of course the usual EX HB AA. I felt spacing was the main key to the matchup for me. Keep at a far enough distance so he cant rising jaguar you or Cr.Mk/Mp you to link into his rising jaguars. His jaguar kicks weren’t that much of a problem for me, Just blocked and lamed them out. Tech the obvious throw. Pretty much Adons 75% of the time FADC the first chance they get on rising jaguar even if its blocked, they just try to OS with a throw or another rising jaguar.
Just my personal imput on the matchup, I’m sure most of you already know this. Wanted to feel special. -shrugs- Lol
I would love to have a adon match up write up… I played gamerbee today at a tournie and got destroyed, lol. I have no idea what to really do against adon, there is only like one person that plays adon in san diegos fighting game scene.
Also, need a dudley write up… I dont know what to really do in that match up, with all the frame traps and pressure =/
I have a few pretty good adons in my area. I would be more then happy to play them in maybe a first to 10 and go more in depth for a writeup. I can record it as well. Not saying though anyone else shouldn’t do the same. I’m no mr.snk or mike ross, but I know what I’m doing.
Edit:
Some notes on the Adon Matchup I would like to contribute with my own personal experience.
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Jumping strong punch should be your standard jump in move. Your jumping strong will stuff the jab/strong/firece rising jaguar if timed right. After you stuff the rising jaguar you can go ahead and do as you please weather it be jab>HHS or Ochio throw, etc. I like to jab>HHS pressure to train the adon to keep his distance and try to footsie me after he learns I can stuff his would be AA rising jaguar.
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I do not believe jab>HHS - jab>HHS works on Adon. I tried it many times in training mode and couldn’t get it out.
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Spacing I believe is the key to being the true dominent force in this matchup. Be sure to stay at a proper distance so he cannot land a crouching medium kick/punch or that can mean you eat a pretty good chunk of damage if he has the means to FADC. Most good Adons I face will FADC the first chance they get. Be sure to know there option selects once they FADC the rising jaguar. They usually either do another rising jaguar or throw. This is based on the good Adons I face however, not really to sure about random low level Adon players.
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When it comes to the Jaguar Kicks (backwards DP kicks on ground) just learn to block then. Most Adons will use them in blockstrings after there usual jab jab strong blockstring combo. They like to throw them out for footsies as well since it gets them a tad closer to Honda without having to move foward to risk eating a headbutt. All versions of jaguar kick (light/medium/heavy) will stuff all versions of headbutt including ex headbutt. Be very careful when he uses this move and know when to properly throw out your headbutts. Rising jaguar can take out headbutts if timed right.
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Adons airbourne jaguar kicks get eaten quite a bit if you headbutt. Be sure to headbutt when hes in the air comming down and catch him when he lands since theres a slight recovery on the kicks. The airbourne kicks aren’t really a problem since any version of headbutt deals with them decently. I tested in training mode and any version of headbutt takes out any version of airbourne jaguar kicks.
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NEVER buttslam in this matchup. Any good Adon will punish you hard for it and make you eat a combo FADC into ultra/rising jaguar. Only time you would buttslam would be to try and catch him on either a jump or going for a airbourne rising jaguar.
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When it comes to footsies on this match I tend to use stading fierce’s quite a bit. Space yourself out of his crouching medium kick/punch range so you dont have to deal with his rising jaguar combo’s. If you shut those down then pretty much all you have to worry about are the jaguar kick gimmicks. Your standing fierce punch will trade with adons grounded jaguar kicks so be careful and just block those unless you want the trade (It’s pretty much a even trade). I like to block the jaguar kicks and if he does light/medium jaguar kicks you can have enough time to Ochio Throw. However this is dependant on if he does the light/medium kicks. Most Adons footsie with Heavy. Don’t be afraid to do a random dash in Ochio when in footsies. You shouldnt be afraid to lose your charge in this match since you have great damaging normals to use on Adon. Not saying however to constantly not charge since Headbutt is always a great thing to have.
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Adons will try and bait moves with a light Jaguar Tooth. You can punish a light Jaguar Tooth fullscreen with Heavy Headbutt. It is pretty easy to punish a Medium/Heavy Jaguar Tooth on reaction with standing firece punch. I have not ever traded my standing fierce punch with a jaguar tooth yet. Most Adons won’t use this move much, Maybe once or twice to try and throw someone off there game or to bait moves with light tooth. Headbutt also takes out Tooth.
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The Adons I faced always used standing medium kick to take out my headbutts on reaction. Be careful for this. Adons standing medium kick is GDLK.
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If a Adon has Ultra 1 in stock and you want to chip him for the win do NOT because he can punish your headbutt on reaction with Jaguar Revolver. Ultra 2 can punish Buttslam spammers.
Thats all I can think of right now. Any other matchup advice is apreciated as well. Just trying to help out.
I have never had a lp or ex headbutt stuffed by jaguar kicks unless I messed up the timing. Most adons use the blockstring c.lp c.mp xx jaguar kick to maintain pressure, a reversal ex headbutt will always win here. If the player gets really predictable, you can U1 after the c.mp and it will beat the jaguar kick.
I’ll throw some stuff everyone should already know in
you can ultra his off-the-wall kick, you can also EX headbutt it or LP headbutt (I’ve had trouble with jab-headbutting the EX version, I don’t suggest it unless you want to eat tooth—>ultra in the corner)
if you’re in the corner and you see adon glowing and going for an off the wall, jump back fierce will hit him as he lands and you get a free hhs combo
obviously there’s tons more to this match than punishing a move he hardly uses, personally I still struggle with this one ( I eat NJ <insert move here> all daaaaaayyyyyyyy)
main goal like most non fireballers: keep him the fuck away, do whatever it takes to avoid the frametraps, overheads, throws, DP FADCs, crossups, jaguar kick tricks etc. he can out footsie you and he does a shitload of damage, but he has to work to get in on you, harder than most, also I don’t think he can punish a headbutt if you do it so he can’t react to it.
Thanks Evil0Unstakabul and Carltwo… some really good info there.
Any advice on Dudley?
That is another match up that I have been struggling with.
Not sure if there is any on dudley here. I also don’t have a good dudley in my area to practice on like Adon.
man, does anyone have good advice vs. chun? I went to my first tourney today and as SOON as my opponent saw me pick honda, he went straight for chun li, I fought it out but goddamn, what the hell happened in this matchup to make it go from 7-3 to 6-4? Why am I so free vs. chun? Sweep anti-airs you without any effort, fireballs keep you out aswell as being able to shut you down with one button + backdash on wake up = no mixups, shit is lame, I should have just switched but I didn’t want to force the mirror since I hate mirror matches as much as I hate being eliminated in my first match.
how about that sakura matchup? only things i see in opening post is how we can get punished…
Seriously the matchup seems pretty tough. heck even if i get in throw/hhs mixup seems like such a risk because if you whiff throw u get hit with crazy stun hit confirm combos and help her start her decent mixup.
Hardest part for me is getting meter to keep her out. I mean, her footsies are very good, her cr fp beats everything, and even whiffing an air attack or empty jump is easily punishable by her backdash into st hk or what not. I still believe its gotta be in hondas favor because of his pure power and her lack of wake up options (although jump and backdash are easy for her to do and to counter punish so this points seems moot to me)
anyone have good experience with this matchup? even just turtling and neutral jump or jump forward over fireballs is dangerous. nj fp is beaten by cr fp, and jumping over fireballs usually eat shooken. stupid matchup is stupid.
I say stay on the ground with sakura. That cr fp is beastly.
Don’t be afraid to block or get hit by a few fireballs. Honda has the vitality to shrug it off. It’s not as low dmg as Guile but sakura’s fireballs are so slow that you should be able to make forward progress by blocking.
Don’t New Jersey Fierce over Sakura’s fireballs because she can follow that up with her dp. You can also punish her dp on block with ultra 2.
played some abel and got my shit rocked like 14-6 or 13-7 or something, it was 20ish games and he got a 9 or 10 winstreak on me at one point, my max winstreak was I think 3 lol, it was pretty competetive most of the time, but after a few I kind of got “mentally guard broken” after he answered one of my perfect rounds by beating me 10 straight.
gonna try and give some info and thoughts, again mostly expanding on things in the first post.
this matchup is 5.5abel-4.5honda imo until he gets ultra then its like 6-4 or maybe a tiny tiny bit worse,but still very winnable compared honda’s shittier matchups
if abel command grabs you, throws you, or combos you you’re pretty much fucked, too many mixups and he does straight retarded damage. he does atleast 180+a mixup per command throw or all of his CoDs can be FADC’d for more damage or a mixup, he can also anti-air you somewhat easily with c.mk and c.hp(can juggle afterwards for another mixup+ extra damage! so don’t jump!)
so how can you beat him? well, you have to keep him out, s.hp will beat out step kick and NJ fierce(watch for c.hp) will beat out wheel kick if he tries to hit you out of the air with it, also s.hk and c.hp have pretty good reach, hit low and do great damage (still trying to find uses for c.hp, I threw it out a few times and got a counterhit for like 150+ which is amazing, but its really slow and if you miss you’re eating stepkick + the works or a command throw) hands is also pretty good here since he can’t really do anything about it except on a guess, but it also puts you in stepkick range, which is not good, I try to fight this one around s.hk-c.lp range, obviously you’ll both be moving around, but try to push him back with your pokes instead of letting him corner you (things will get ugly here)
your wakeup: there’s this weird spot where it seems like he can short wheelkick and make it completely safe(someone confirm this, I tried c.lp to hands and either ate a EX command throw or got blocked, perhaps its a tight punish) if you’re like me and always holding downback you’ll probably get hit, but if you see it and don’t feel like blocking you can EX headbutt him for good damage, plus it gets him off of you.
he can also go low with c.lkx1-3 into command grab or c.lk stringed into stepkick pretty sure its not a safe blockstring, but if he’s got U2 stocked its a big gamble to throw out an EXheadbutt.
high: s.hk (overhead, does good damage and is hard as fuck if not impossible to see, punishable by jabxxhands if you sniff it out and block it)
command grab
regular throw
nothing(his least favorite option)
stupid roll gimmicks into either c.hp or a command throw
EX headbutt beats all of his options except nothing, so its an okay gamble unless he’s got U2 ready, in which case you’re about to get taken for a spin if you guess wrong, also if he has U1 he can Neutral jump your headbutt on a guess and hit you for 500 because you were tired of getting your ass kicked and wanted him to go away.
abel’s wakeup
so abel has no real reversals besides roll or EX command grab, so let’s try and go over his options after you toss his snail-eating ass on the ground.
Your Options:
S.hk
c.jabxxhands
oichio
throw
nothing(my personal favorite, the gamble is really either “I did minimal damage” or “I’m trapped in mixups”, so I don’t pressure him every time unless I have a pretty good lifelead or he’s near death and I feel lucky.)
crossup into one of the above (I think he can air-snatch you, not really sure and that move is unreliable for him, overall my least favorite option)
meaty EXheadbutt: I actually like doing this one too as it beats everything including wakeup breathless, you’re about to take 40% if he decides to just block though, but its not too bad if he doesn’t have ultra ready or already used it and you know he likes to backdash or command throw on wakeup, he can just wakeup roll and you both go flying in opposite directions.
Abel’s Options:
EX command grab (immune to hits, beats c.jabxxhands on his wakeup, beats s.hk on his wakeup, loses to meaty oichio or throw)
roll(loses to throw or oichio, gets him out of trouble if you try to c.jabxxhands or s.hk)
backdash: beats meaty oichio or throw, he can punish with stepkick or breathless if you go for oichio, loses to s.hk or c.jabxxhands
there’s also regular command grab which will beat oichio or throw, but loses to s.hk or jabxxhands
overall, keep him out, try and stay smart, and remember that all your specials except HHS are punishable by breathless, and buttsplash is usually never a good idea, neither is NJ fierce or fullscreen headbutts when he has ultra. a lot of the time the only thing you can do is guess in this matchup, but that’s why Abel is so good(cheap as hell) in this game.
also if I said anything that’s incorrect feel free to correct me as I suck at street fighter and don’t want to give out bad info.
For Sak, I do auto-correct sumo slam/EX sumo when she crosses-under (reset) or jump back normal if she stays on side. I feel like the Abel match-up is 5-5 but I’m leaning towards Honda because Abel needs 2 stocks of meter for untechable knockdown (b&bs) whereas if Honda can get jab hands going you can link c.LP xx EX Sumo for one stock and go from there. When he has Ultra meter don’t cross him, just sit there on his wakeup so you can react accordingly. Cross-up c.jab xx HHS attempt gets beaten by EX Tornado, so just fish for rolls and poorly spaced wheel kicks for jab hands.
I don’t understand, when does abel need 2 meters for an untechable besides step kick–>s.hpxxcod fadc c.hpxxFS? tornado, regular throw, and full cod combo are all untechables and lead to guessing games, honda can’t really force any real mixups on abel since his options are pretty limited, untechables aren’t really as useful to honda as they are to abel… I guess you could add df-hk overhead as one of the tricks, but I never really use that unless I’m trolling or as a goofy gimmick which I’ll probably get c.lk’d out of as they try to tech or they recognize it and kill me for it, I have hit it a couple of times and it does amazing damage though 
personally I think abel vs. honda is 6-4, maybe when AE comes out and his damage is lowered it’ll be 5-5 unless they actually believe honda is #1 and nerf the hell out of him (while cammy gets more frame advantage that she doesn’t need), but you’re either amazing vs. abel or all the abels you play suck, or maybe I suck, but I really believe it’s 6-4, roughly the same difficulty as ryu but for different reasons.