I think the tier list is misleading. It works off scores based on match ups and Honda, based on those scores, kills the bottom 50% of the cast better than any other character. Take the top 18 characters alone and he would be mid to upper mid tier. He has unfavourable matches (maybe not at intermediate level, but these are all meant to be based on high level) vs Chun, Guile, Sagat, Ryu, Sim, Seth. So 6 of the top 18 have advantage over him. Cammy is the only character Honda holds something over out of the top characters and maybe Blanka and Gief. Otherwise his matches are even. The thing is, most people play top characters so this is why lots of Honda players scratch their heads when they see him joint top right now. This list togehter with Mike Rossās performance at Evo is why there are more Hondas about. I am certain they will drop off when people have got their ass handed to them by any one of those characters often (in the right hands) that give Honda some real headaches let alone the 5-5 matches that can be real tough if you donāt know the match up - Rose, Balrog, Rufus, Feiā¦etc. Honda is definately not the new Sagat and to use him well takes dedication and more skill than people give Honda players credit for imo.
I wrote this before I checked the Honda thread and I guess im late, but I thought Iād share what I thoughtā¦
First Iād like to comment on the new tier list. Iāve been saying that I thought Chun-li was the best character in the game since vanilla and she has finally gotten her due. The one thing I donāt agree w/ is the way characters can be boosted by being favored against weak characters. For example, E. Honda is considered tied for the top character as far as tiers are concerned. But, if you look closely Honda loses 7-3 to chun, 6-4 to guile, ryu, sagat, seth, and dhalsim. All major tournament characters! The rest of the tournament characters he is 5-5 with minus bison, gief, viper, in which he is favored 6-4. Where he gets his points is from a bunch of 7-3 matchups w/ the bottom tier characters.
I also feel like there are a few errors as far as Honda Matchups go based on what characters Akimo has been knocked out of tournaments by, the collective thoughts of myself, and speaking w/ a few other Honda players.
Eventhub ranking of Akuma/Honda (5/5) Iām gonna say that this is 6-4 in Akumaās favor (weāll see how Wang weighs in on that)
Eventhub ranking of Honda/Blanka (6/4) Iād have to say that this match is a nightmare for blanka, 7-3 Honda
Eventhub ranking of Dhalsim/Honda (6/4) At low very this is very realistic, but against a good sim this is gonna be in gief/seth territory. 7-3 Sim borderline 8-2.
Eventhub ranking of Ken/Honda (5/5) After facing some really good Kens at evo, and watching Mike Ross get very lucky against Dr. Chaos, iām gonna have to say this has got to be 5.5 ken if not 6.
Eventhub ranking of Honda/Cody (6/4) This makes me wonder who made these tier lists and if they have any idea what they are talking about. This match is very even or definitely in Codyās favor.
The rest is pretty solid, but I think the match between vega, deejay, bison, ibuki can be even as well. With that said, it puts Honda more around the 185 mark. Somewhere between balrog and cammy would be appropriate. Anyway just of my thoughts/rants.
Thanks Sid, I was thinking the same for most of those matches. I donāt think the writes are taking the time nor know how to play the characters to understand how a tier list works. 5/5 Honda Rufus? Please.
Honda/Rufus 5-5 is a fucking joke
among the top tier? honda? now i gotta play mirrors against walk back headbutt morons
Haha I love tagging bad fierce headbutts with standing roundhouse.
And I would probably leave the honda blanka match at 6-4. If blanka can get his cross-up, side switching hopping game going it can cause some trouble. Plus blanka has an easier anti-crossup anti air with the EX up ball. Paired with electricity means almost no jumping in for honda.
Honda/Blanka is as much 6/4 as Sim/Honda is 6/4 imo :Pā¦ Its like saying its easy for honda to cause trouble for sim once he can get a knockdown.
How do you get in on Sim? sim usually pokes me away with fp, i dont feel like i can really jupm over that into a range where i can do anything. i neutral jump fireballs but s rh still beats my neutral fp. idk. I tried jump mp but thatsā pretty iffy. and when sim figures that out in game 2 kinda changes the complexion of the match into his favorā¦
Could not have said it better and am glad I am not the only one that thinks a decent and dry Cody is a tough fight for Honda. Those other characters you mention could be 5-5 also resonates with me. Dry Bison, solid Dee Jay, dry Vega and good mix up Ibuki are no way 6-4 Honda.
sims standing RH should not be beating your nj fierce do it from a further range , if your that close to where it is hitting you under your fierce punch then you can probably slam or jump in mp once or twice
do you guys really think that the t hawk matchup is 7-3 in hondaās favor? i have a harder time with t hawk than i do gief >.>
once hawk gets life lead all he has to do is sit back and a lot of his aerials have amazing priority which knock me out of headbutts and splashes. he also has great mobility with condor spire/condor dive and has a srk. i have no idea how to play this matchup.
have you guys had a hard time vs t hawk or played any good ones?
donāt EVER splash on a grappler, itās a free command grab/ultra/super everytime when they block. condor dive is extremely unsafe. free ultra for you on block. Thereās no reason to be close enough to get hit by t hawkās SRK. just keep him out with s.HP and s.HK on the ground and s.HP, lp.HB, nj.fp, jb.mp, EX.HB AA. You shouldnāt be doing random headbutts either for him to be knocking you out of them. You have to be patient and use your normals. Though, this really goes for any matchup.
iām only splashing as an anti air, not on their block. i believe t hawks jump back fierce knocks me both out of hb and splash.
i also use all of my normals like you have listed and know their priorities etc. mistiming either standing heavy punch or kick will have you eating some damage, so itās not as simple as chop everything. the advice was pretty generic tbh. yes i know i can punish dive on block.
i just have trouble approaching a defensive t hawk. the area i find most dangerous is when you get close at a certain distance and t hawk is in the air, because he can either empty jump grab you, cross up dive you, or jump with (i think) fierce splash which has good priority. either i suck at this matchup or mr karatey on psn is good.
thanks for the advice.iām finding that when iām like 3/4 screen if i decide to jump forward my jmp rh is beating simās s rh too! thanks.
why are you throwing out random headbutts and splashes for t hawk to even jump back to counter you? you canāt approach t hawk with headbutts and buttslams. Itās all punishableā¦by his jump back as you said.
If you know about hondaās normals then you should also know the timing on his s.HP and s.hk and range of them as well as to not mistime them/get punished for throwing them out willy-nilly.
why are you stepping into spacing that makes you feel trapped and leaves you open to this mixup in the first place? Backdash, NJ.FP wiggle, of jump back. Basically any of the options from that spacing that you mentioned that t hawk has can be beat by a well-timed nj.fp though.
Seriously dude, you ask for advice and i try to give you some and all you do is act ungrateful and sass meā¦donāt post on SRK asking for shit if you donāt like answers people give you. There isnāt a magical-mystery OS that pierces the heavens and opens womensā legs for you when you play honda.
Apply his strengths and avoid his weaknesses.
you pretty much gave me the top 5 honda moves to do on any character and said keep him out. no scenarios or situations. just keep him away on the ground with those pokes, and then use the standard anti airs to keep him out of the air. that is good general advice for nearly any matchup no?
since that was pretty generic, i gave you the situation that causes me the most trouble. you answered that a well timed nj fierce should stuff most those options, and i appreciate that advice.
and for the record, i didnāt come on here āasking for shitā other than an opinion. if you give me generic fortune cookie advice like āapply his strengths and avoid his weaknessesā, iām going to ask for an elaboration.
the question still stands. does anyone else think the 7-3 is warranted in hondaās favor?
Oh yeah. This match is so in hondas favor. You can easily keep him out with normals and stop him in the air. If you keep the right distance, your can punish condor spire with s.hp or rh. There is nothing t. hawk can do if you have the life lead. If he happens to gain the life lead, push him into the corner and apply hands pressure. If tries to jump out of it, AA him back in. His dash is slow, so you dont have to worry about a dash spd. Empty jumps are easy to read and easily stopped by any AA option. He also cant punish headbutt so feel free to hit him with it. Just dont make it noticable that your going to do it and dont do it from full screen. This is just my opinion.
Can you punish Rose after a cr.strong xx soul spiral. I have this issue where she does that, then does it again and I cant do anything about it. Plus her forward rh tends to stop my advancement when I walk forward. This was a match I taught I wouldnĆØt need help in but it really is an annoying to get in.
If T. hawk leaves the ground, a jab headbutt as soon as he reaches the top of his floaty jump beats condor dive clean and AAās all his jumpins. If the Hawk player knows the match up he will never dive on you unless itās a EX.dp to EX.CD, cross up, or whiff dive to meaty U1/spd setup. You shouldnāt block dive unless you are looking to land a free U1 or super because jab head butt is so brain dead easy, why take the chip. Donāt use butt slams because they trade or lose to dives and are free damage for grounded Hawks. Donāt use ex.hbās because they waste meter and are hard to time versus dives than jab head butt. He canāt punish blocked head butts but donāt use them from downtown. Use them a distance where they are hard to react to so you can get a small life lead then sit on down back. This is one of the few match ups that I feel really is 7-3 Honda. You just turtle and jab head butt and like Haitian Sensation said itās free for Honda.
cr.strong xx soul spiral isnāt a true blockstring unless they are point blannk and doing the light punch soul spiral. you can EX headbutt right through it after the cr.mp recovery. Though, cr.mp has 3 active frames, so, if itās meaty and on the last active frame, or are right on top of you, youāll just block. you can definitely blast through it though if youāre playing footsies.
thank you, this was really helpful (also thanks haitian).
didnāt know that jab hb beats out condor dive (i thought it would trade like it does with condor spire). good to know that jab hb stuffs every option once t hawk reaches the peak of his jump, makes me more confident in sitting on jab hb now.
meh i guess i have to learn to turtle to make this matchup easier (cause turtling is not my style). do any of hondaās jump-ins beat out his srk at certain spacing? if not i guess my favorite parts of honda (oichio and jab hands) might not play as big a role in this matchup unfortunately.
Can anybody give any advice against good Dhalsims and Rufuses? I have a really hard time against both of these characters, dhalsim just getting in and rufus trying to get off of me when i donāt have EX meter.